Is baptism needed for salvation?

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
You need to have your conscience washed in the blood of the lamb[1Peter3]
Seek FIRST the kingdom[Mt6]

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2010,10:12)

Hi T, You need to have your conscience washed in the blood of the lamb[1Peter3] Seek FIRST the kingdom[Mt6]

nick

this would be in dead,

first seek the kingdom and then????do you what it means?

[NickHassan]

Hi t,
Yes.
Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2010,10:25)

Hi t, Yes. Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom.

nick

water does not reborn you in any way this is not scriptural.

the change as to be in your mind and heart and action ,so the knowledge of the kingdom of God as to get in you,and you have to learn the way in that kingdom,then you are reborn ,now you can understand the meaning of that kingdom and his king.
you also have to live the live in that kingdom because being reborn mean you are now a citizen of that kingdom,no longer in this world.

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Theory is for theorists.
Wiser men follow the way shown by the apostles in Acts.
It is worth reading and believing as it remains the handbook of God's servants.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2010,10:45)

Hi T, Theory is for theorists. Wiser men follow the way shown by the apostles in Acts. It is worth reading and believing as it remains the handbook of God's servants.

nick

OK,water baptism in Jesus name is scriptural,

this is ending this discussion

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 22 2010,00:41)

Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2010,05:00) Here is two simple questions.   Did the apostles baptize believers in water after the spirit came at Pentecost?  If so then what was their purpose? KW answer my question first did they circumcise after??

You accidently left what you wrote open to interpretation.  The renewal occurs when a person is immersed in both faith and water similar to the way Jesus healed the blind man at the Pool of Siloam.   I assume you are speaking of the renewal when you say circumcism.

Some are confused by the signs of the Holy Spirit but even under the old covensant you have reports of those that displayed the signs of the Holy Spirit.  True renewal can only come through the new covenant though the signs of the Holy Spirit can accompanian you becomming a new person.

Here is one such report.

1 Samual 10:6-7(NIV) reads:

Quote

The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

[Elizabeth]

Water baptism has two functions;
one; it cleanses us from all past sins, Mat. 3:6; Acts 2:38.
two; it is an outward sign of your believe in Jesus Christ.
But, it does not save you, nor is it necessarily for salvation.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
No .
Baptism forgives nothing. God forgives.
No.
We do not need outwards signs but obey God
No.
What God demands we should obey. Of course He is sovereign to save in other ways but the millenial kingdom is our hope.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2010,20:00)

Hi Georg, No . Baptism forgives nothing. God forgives. No. We do not need outwards signs but obey God No. What God demands we should obey. Of course He is sovereign to save in other ways but the millenial kingdom is our hope.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since you apparently did not bother to look up the scripture; remission means, forgiven.

Georg

[GeneBalthrop]

Georg……….Remission, is another subject that has some different understandings. Like this, Say you have cancer and it went in to remission that does not mean you still do not have cancer but that it is in a remission state or not active but still present. And i think this is what is implied here we still have sin as long as we are in these bodies, but it will not control us, and with the spirit of GOD it can be put in a state of remission, sin will not be completely removes from us until these bodies are destroyed and we recieve new ones. This is why we need the covering of Christ so that our sins are continually covered by his covering given us that the same of our nakedness does not appear. We are indeed saved by GRACE and That not of OURSELVES.

Peace and love to you and Irene……………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
Baptism forgives nothing.
God forgives.

Water is useless.
We all wash every day but that does nothing for our sin.

Look at Simon Magus.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick………Are you beginning to see Water Baptism does nothing for cleansing us. No more then Circumcision has any effect on our being right with GOD, both are just outward signs. Water baptism is just a outward admission of our acceptance of the Blood of Christ paying for our sins and is just a sign only. It is the Baptism of the SPIRIT and FIRE that really save us. God works (IN) us and changes our thinking in our hearts and minds, we become a NEW CREATION of GOD.

peace and love…………………..gene

[NickHassan]

G,
“Outward sign” is a catholic theological term.

1Peter3 explains it

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….I now that, but water baptism and Circumcision are also, outward sign and Do not change anyone inside the hearts and minds.

Surely Nick you must understand this by now. There is only (ONE) Baptism that counts and that is the Baptism of the CHRISTOS, or SPIRIT. Cleansing with water was a requirement of the LAW for the CARNAL MINDED> It pictured our Spiritual Baptism ONLY. Your mixing up the shadow with the real thing brother.

peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

peace and love……………gene

[NickHassan]

G,
So you say but does scripture?
Water baptism in the name of Jesus is scriptural as T says.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……Paul as i quoted earlier, said there is Only (ONE BAPTISM) and that is of the SPIRIT That we recieve through Jesus Christ our Lord from GOD the FATHER. The Apostles were baptizing in water as well as others before the Day of Pentecost but that did not change any one, John's Baptisms in water did not change anyone either. The Baptism of Christ is What Changes us, the Baptism of Spirit and FIRE. I am not saying it is wrong to be water Baptized , but it can never change or save anyone, it is an open confession of our FAITH. But many have been baptized with WATER and are no converted at all. But none who are Baptized with HOLY SPIRIT and FIRE FAIL. That my brother is the difference. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2010,10:25)

G, So you say but does scripture? Water baptism in the name of Jesus is scriptural as T says.

nick

i agree it is scriptural,but the usefulness of it will remain to be seen,

i believe it is still corner stone what religion took to deceit many,and Paul says water baptism is elementary.

[NickHassan]

GB,
There is only one baptism.
Then there is the baptism of the Spirit.
Then there is the baptism of fire ..but only one baptism

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Are you to judge the usefulness of God's commands?
The apostles did not argue but baptised.

[Author]

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