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Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 09 2009,23:47) Anyone who baptizes in more than one way I believe it to be wrong and so does God, I heard of a preacher who asked how do you want to be baptized? And did whatever the answer was eveh. 
The water baptism symbolises the death burial and resurrection where you can walk in newness of life.
Greetings Follower….. “The Holy Ghost”…was his name casper?…..The proper term for the essense and power that is the Eternal is…..”The Holy Spirit”Quote (Gene @ Sep. 09 2009,16:17) eveh……….water baptism get you wet, baptism of SPIRIT Get you saved. Remembered when Jesus came to John and John said I have need to be baptized by you, what did John mean, He had previously said I indeed Baptize with water but He who comes after me will baptize wit SPIRIT and FIRE. You can be baptized in water a thousand times it means nothing , you must be baptized (submerge) in HOLY SPIRIT in order to be saved. Water changes nothing HOLY SPIRIT does Change you. The old system used by the Jews for centuries of water baptism for purification does nothing, as Peter said not the putting of the filth of the flesh that counted. IMO peace and love………………..gene
Gene, according to Acts 2:38, we are baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of our sins,,,Acts 2:38 (King James Version)
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We receive the Holy Ghost because we obey God and just like those in the book of Acts, when we receive it, we speak in tongues.
Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?Acts 43-
43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days
eveh…..Then what did John who water baptize , mean , when He said (I) indeed baptize with water , (BUT) He who comes after me will (BAPTIZE) with SPIRIT and FIRE. The baptism of John saved no one, the baptism of Christ saves all who have it. There is also something to remember Jesus was under the OLD covenant when he walked this earth so He told John to go ahead a water Baptist Him, it was required for purification under the law. But When the new covenant Started i don't believe water baptism made any difference , I am not saying it is wrong but i really don't believe it is required any more. Paul also said there is (ONLY) ONE true baptism, which one is IT them?. Water or SPIRIT? I personally was baptized in water twice, but recieved the HOLY SPIRIT when they laid there hands on me and prayed over me I literally felt the Spirit come into me. But guess what i still sinned after that many times since. Water baptism was instituted in the old Covenant , God was showing that a person had to be made clean and this was carried out in a Physical washing called water Baptism, but it was an example of what was to come a Spiritual cleansing not made with Hand like water baptism is. IMO
peace and love…………gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 10 2009,16:53) even…..Then what did John who water baptize , mean , when He said (I) indeed baptize with water , (BUT) He who comes after me will (BAPTIZE) with SPIRIT and FIRE. The baptism of John saved no one, the baptism of Christ saves all who have it. There is also something to remember Jesus was under the OLD covenant when he walked this earth so He told John to go ahead a water Baptist Him, it was required for purification under the law. But When the new covenant Started i don't believe water baptism made any difference , I am not saying it is wrong but i really don't believe it is required any more. Paul also said there is (ONLY) ONE true baptism, which one is IT them?. Water or SPIRIT? I personally was baptized in water twice, but received the HOLY SPIRIT when they laid there hands on me and prayed over me I literally felt the Spirit come into me. But guess what i still sinned after that many times since. Water baptism was instituted in the old Covenant , God was showing that a person had to be made clean and this was carried out in a Physical washing called water Baptism, but it was an example of what was to come a Spiritual cleansing not made with Hand like water baptism is. IMO peace and love…………gene
I totally disagree with you. The apostles went around baptising people in water and seeing to that they had received the Holy ghost too. Do you think they didn't know what was expected of them? If it wasn't necessary,they would not have baptized in water. It was the first thing they did when they met a believer. How can you totally ignore those scriptures? It absolutely was necessary or they would not have done it.The second thing they ask was, “Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?” They asked this of baptised believers. And they clearly all did, receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues. Read Acts chapter ten. This is the first Gentiles. Our pattern.
If you did not speak in tongues then you didn't receive the Holy Ghost in the same way those who received it back then did. You can put whatever spin you want on it but the book of Acts will still be there disproving what you are saying.
john 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verly, verly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth notshall be damned.if you look at these 3 scriptures how can you say you dont need baptism?
Interesting: There was no baptism water or spirit in the old testament that I could find! When the New Covenant came I believe John, called the Baptist, baptized with water as a metaphoric picture of washing away the error or sin of the old covenant. Preparing the way with a clean heart and mind for the Truth to come from God.
Jesus didn't baptize anyone with water! What does that say to you? Yet, Jesus did baptize or emerse with words, the Holy Spirit, which is the whole Truth which is Spirit of God. Jesus' words are Spirit and life giving!(John 6:63) Bless all, TK
Those who wash themselves with the water of the word of God are cleansed by the Truth. All sin is removed, clean and righteous. TKJC……….What need is the Baptism of Christ brother. SPIRIT and FIRE, that is what saves Tim Kraft is right. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 12 2009,14:42) JC……….What need is the Baptism of Christ brother. SPIRIT and FIRE, that is what saves Tim Kraft is right. IMO peace and love………………………gene
You are going to be held accountable for either obeying or disobeying the Gospel message, which both Peter and Paul preached, …water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
We are baptized into his death and buried with him. Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God,
So you think it is not necessary to be buried with him in baptism? What scripture tells you, you do not need water baptism? I can show you plenty that says you do. That is what it says in my King James version of the Bible.
Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Apparently today there are some who do say to forbid water!
Few truths are so clearly taught in the New Testament as the doctrine that in baptism God gives us grace. Again and again the sacred writers tell us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). They are unanimous in speaking of baptism in invariably efficient terms, as really bringing about a spiritual effect.
Despite this wealth of evidence, Protestants are almost equally unanimous in rejecting this truth. In general Protestants regard baptism as something like an ordinance: an observance that does not itself bring about any spiritual effect but merely represents that effect. Its observance may be required by obedience, but it is not necessary in any further sense—certainly not for salvation.
This view requires Protestants to explain away all the New Testament passages on the nature of baptism as figurative language. It is not baptism itself, they assert, but what baptism represents, that really saves us. Yet the language of the New Testament on this point is so uniform that they cannot even dredge up a couple of “proof-texts” on baptism to support this view or their figurative reading of all the other passages.
There is one text that Protestants occasionally mention. In 1 Corinthians 1:14–17 Paul wrote that he was glad that he himself had baptized so few of the Corinthians, since they could not say that they were baptized in his name; and he went on to say, “For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel. . . .”
Needless to say, this passage doesn’t say anything about baptism only representing spiritual realities, or not really saving. It doesn’t say anything about how those who accepted Paul’s preaching of the gospel were then saved. Paul didn’t write, “For I was not sent to baptize but to pray with people to accept Jesus as their personal Savior” (or even “to lead people to faith”). Paul didn’t pit faith against baptism.
Nor did he pit preaching against baptism. He would hardly have contradicted the great commission in Matthew 28:19: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Paul’s point was not that God didn’t want him to baptize, only that preaching was the driving force of his evangelistic ministry.
In short, Paul’s remark doesn’t remotely support the Protestant view of baptism, or justify a figurative interpretation of all the other passages. Yet this is the closest thing to a Protestant proof-text!
The early Fathers were equally unanimous in affirming baptism as a means of grace. They all recognized the Bible’s teaching that “[In the ark] a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:20–21, emphasis added).
One key Scripture reference to being “born again” or “regenerated” is John 3:5, where Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. “Born again” Christians claim the “water” is the preached word of God.
But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5).
No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism.
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus
“‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’” (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).
Tertullian
“[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life’” (Baptism 12:1 [A.D. 203]).
Hippolytus
“The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism” (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8 [A.D. 217]).
The Recognitions of Clement
“But you will perhaps say, ‘What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?’ In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so . . . you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: ‘Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water . . . he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’” (The Recognitions of Clement 6:9 [A.D. 221]).
Testimonies Concerning the Jews
“That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’ [John 3:5]. . . . Also in the same place: ‘Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye shall not have life in you’ [John 6:53]. That it is of small account to be baptized and to receive the Eucharist, unless one profit by it both in deeds and works” (Testimonies Concerning the Jews 3:2:25–26 [A.D. 240]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“[When] they receive also the baptism of the Church . . . then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God . . . since it is written, ‘Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’” (Letters 71[72]:1 [A.D. 253]).
Council of Carthage VII
“And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ . . . Unless therefore they receive saving baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ” (Seventh Carthage [A.D. 256]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“Since man is of a twofold nature, composed of body and soul, the purification also is twofold: the corporeal for the corporeal and the incorporeal for the incorporeal. The water cleanses the body, and the Spirit seals the soul. . . . When you go down into the water, then, regard not simply the water, but look for salvation through the power of the Spirit. For without both you cannot attain to perfection. It is not I who says this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter. And he says, ‘Unless a man be born again,’ and he adds the words ‘of water and of the Spirit,’ ‘he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ He that is baptized with water, but is not found worthy of the Spirit, does not receive the grace in perfection. Nor, if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it” (Catechetical Lectures 3:4 [A.D. 350]).
Athanasius
“[A]s we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened” (Four Discourses Against the Arians 3:26[33] [A.D. 360]).
Basil the Great
“This then is what it means to be ‘born again of water and Spirit’: Just as our dying is effected in the water [Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12–13], our living is wrought through the Spirit. In three immersions and an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water, but from the Spirit’s presence there” (The Holy Spirit 15:35 [A.D. 375]).
Ambrose of Milan
“Although we are baptized with water and the Spirit, the latter is much superior to the former, and is not therefore to be separated from the Father and the Son. There are, however, many who, because we are baptized with water and the Spirit, think that there is no difference in the offices of water and the Spirit, and therefore think that they do not differ in nature. Nor do they observe that we are buried in the element of water that we may rise again renewed by the Spirit. For in the water is the representation of death, in the Spirit is the pledge of life, that the body of sin may die through the water, which encloses the body as it were in a kind of tomb, that we, by the power of the Spirit, may be renewed from the death of sin, being born again in God” (The Holy Spirit 1:6[75–76] [A.D. 381]).
“The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ’s blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11–12)] so that he can be saved . . . for n
o one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism.
. . . ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’” (Abraham 2:11:79–84 [A.D. 387]).“You have read, therefore, that the three witnesses in baptism are one: water, blood, and the Spirit (1 John 5:8): And if you withdraw any one of these, the sacrament of baptism is not valid. For what is the water without the cross of Christ? A common element with no sacramental effect. Nor on the other hand is there any mystery of regeneration without water, for ‘unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’” (The Mysteries 4:20 [A.D. 390]).
Gregory of Nyssa
“[In] the birth by water and the Spirit, [Jesus] himself led the way in this birth, drawing down upon the water, by his own baptism, the Holy Spirit; so that in all things he became the firstborn of those who are spiritually born again, and gave the name of brethren to those who partook in a birth like to his own by water and the Spirit” (Against Eunomius 2:8 [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
“[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of heaven except he be regenerated through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink his blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed head [the Mystical Body of Christ]” (The Priesthood 3:5–6 [A.D. 387]).
Gregory of Nazianz
“Such is the grace and power of baptism; not an overwhelming of the world as of old, but a purification of the sins of each individual, and a complete cleansing from all the bruises and stains of sin. And since we are double-made, I mean of body and soul, and the one part is visible, the other invisible, so the cleansing also is twofold, by water and the Spirit; the one received visibly in the body, the other concurring with it invisibly and apart from the body; the one typical, the other real and cleansing the depths” (Oration on Holy Baptism 7–8 [A.D. 388]).
The Apostolic Constitutions
“Be ye likewise contented with one baptism alone, that which is into the death of the Lord [Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12–13]. . . . [H]e that out of contempt will not be baptized shall be condemned as an unbeliever and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says, ‘Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ And again, ‘He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned’” [Mark 16:16] (Apostolic Constitutions 6:3:15 [A.D. 400]).
Augustine
“It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that infant is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, ‘Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents’ or ‘by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him,’ but, ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit.’ The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam” (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 412]).
“Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ—it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, ‘Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’” [Matt. 10:32] (The City of God 13:7 [A.D. 419]).
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 13 2009,00:39) we do prefer scripture
Did you not see this at the very start of my post above?“Few truths are so clearly taught in the New Testament as the doctrine that in baptism God gives us grace. Again and again the sacred writers tell us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). They are unanimous in speaking of baptism in invariably efficient terms, as really bringing about a spiritual effect.”
Do I need to paste these references in?
You may prefer Scripture, but remember that the Church Councils that God used to determine the Canon of Scripture speak with the same force and authority of Scripture.
The Canon of Scripture IS closed. But the teaching authority Jesus gave the Church is still binding.
To All……..Baptism of water was symbolic for washing and making Clean, It was always used by worshipers to purify themselves before going into the temple and there were hundreds of large wash basins around the temple for people to us , John was washing them in the rivers and the term Baptism or immersion was applied to them for cleansing purposes. John said clearly He came baptizing with water (BUT) he who came after Him would Baptiste with SPIRIT and FIRE (judgement) . Now that is why John told Jesus when He came to be Baptized by John “I HAVE NEED TO BE BAPTIZED BY YOU” John understood the Baptism of Christ was what was truly needed for a person. Try to keep in mind there was a Hugh transferring taking place at the time of the Jesus and the Apostles , from a Physical form to a SPIRITUAL ONE. Many Physical things were only examples of the Spiritual things that later were to come and Water Baptism was one of those things. With that said i am (NOT) saying it is necessarily wrong to be water baptized though. IMO
To All…………Mat 3:14-15….> But John forbade him saying , I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to Me? –15….> And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so (NOW): for thus (in this way) it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness. Then He suffered Him.
Notice Jesus said Suffer it to be so (NOW) Jesus was under the old testament laws and He would have been sinning to not be baptized, Jesus kept (all) the old testament laws He fulfilled them all including the laws purification , it became Him and John to fulfill (ALL) righteousness of the Law. But we are not under the old covenant as He was but under the New Covenant, which has far more and better promises. Baptism now is of the SPIRIT and FIRE (judgments) that is the baptism that truly cleanses us. IMO
peace and love to you all………………….gene
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 13 2009,23:21) infants dont know they need to repent, and be baptizes in Jesus name, and recieve the Spirit
Thought this might come up sometime.Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39). We also read: “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”Furthermore, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.” Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.
This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ”—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.
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