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Hi Gene,
You: Carmel…….You are one screwed up cookie, brother, are you a Johovah wittness, they also believe that Jesus was a preexisting angel like you?
Me: Read and tell me what does the scripture hereunder say?
Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;
but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Also, read these scriptures now:
Rev. 22:14 I am Alpha and Omega, THE FIRST and the last, THE BEGINNING and the end.
John 1:1, IN the BEGINNING, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
4 IN HIM WAS LIFE, and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
COLOSSIANS 1:16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by him and in him.
17And he is before all,
and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church,
who is THE BEGINNING,
the FIRSTBORN from the dead;
that in all things he may hold the PRIMACY:
NOW IN VIEW OF THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE, JESUS, A PRE-EXISTENT SPIRIT, “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART, Hebrews 4:12
IS THE LIFE SOURCE OF ALL
THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS and
THE FIRST OF ALL THE FIRSTS OF GOD’S WORK.
NOW Lucifer, as a creature and an angel, was the FIRST, and THE BEGINNING OF CREATION, which means that Jesus as a spirit was in lucifer’s heart, since HE, JESUS, IS THE BEGINNING AND THE FIRST OF ALL, BEFORE ALL, and THE LIFE SOURCE OF ALL.
THUS BOTH LUCIFER, AND JESUS HIDDEN IN LUCIFER’S HEART, WERE THE SAME ANGEL, MALE AND FEMALE ANDROGYNOUS.
THE MORNING STAR, THE LIGHT BRINGER, THE BEGINNING, and THE FIRST.
THE FIRST-EVER CARRIER OF GOD, THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT!
NOW READ PLEASE:
JOHN1:5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
THE ABOVE VERSE TELLS US THAT
THE LIGHT, JESUS AS A SPIRIT, SHINES IN DARKNESS, LUCIFER/SATAN,
AND DARKNESS LUCIFER/SATAN COULDN’T COMPREHEND IT.
ONLY ON THE CROSS, SATAN WAS AWARE OF WHO JESUS REALLY WAS!
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, a wisdom which is hidden, which God ordained before the world, unto our glory : 8Which none of the princes of this world knew;
for if they had known it,
they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.
Gene, ONCE LUCIFER, REJECTED GOD AND REBELLED, JESUS AND LUCIFER WERE SEPARATED, Mark 3:26, ONLY FROM LUCIFER’S SIDE POINT OF VIEW THOUGH, IN ORDER TO COMMENCE THE BATTLE ON EARTH FOR THE OWNERSHIP OF THE HUMAN RACE/SOULS.
JUST TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO PONDER READ:
Matthew 4:3 And the tempter coming said to him: If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
NOW, Gene, in the above Satan offered Jesus some STONES to turn them into bread,
WHAT ARE THOSE STONES, MEANT TO BE!
WHAT DID SATAN IN ACTUAL FACT SAY TO JESUS, GIVING HIM THOSE
STONES TO EAT?
TO MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU, JUST ONE MORE TO GO READ:
John 4:32 But he said to them: I have meat to eat, which you know not.
Gene, SATAN BELIEVED IN HIS ABSOLUTE AUTONOMY, AND ONLY DEATH CONVINCED HIM THAT HE WAS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO GOD IN JESUS, “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, HIDDEN IN HIM, FOR NO USE IN HIS HEART OF STONE.
NOW IN MY POSTS Nos. #941923, 4, and 5
I elaborated regarding John17:1-3 AND FOR A REASON ONLY YOU KNOW,
you simply IGNORED THEM, NOW IN THOSE POSTS I ASKED BOTH YOU AND JODI,
WHERE WAS SATAN ON JESUS’DEATH? OR MORE PRECISELY
WHAT HAPPENED TO SATAN ON JESUS’DEATH ON THE CROSS?
WILL YOU REMAIN SILENT ALSO THIS TIME?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Gene (posted a second time),
Who is speaking in this passage:
7I will proclaim the decree
spoken to Me by the LORD:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.
Was that spoken in the New Testament or the Old Testament?
Please answer both of those questions Gene.
Blessings, LU
Proclaimer,
You quoted this:
Proclaimer: But I would like to add that the whole reason for creation is because of the Son. God created all things through him and for him. Further, God’s redemptive plan from the foundation of the world is also through him as you rightly point out. We are offered to be born from above and become Sons. Our existence is tied up in The Son’s existence. He is the life. All creation exists because of the Son and for him.
LU: That sounds like the Father is not independent of the Son but rather they are both interdependent to each other.
Then you said this:
Your problem then is not me but scripture then.
All Things Were Created Through Him and for Him.
He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.
I don’t know how your response addresses what you quote. Please clarify. Thanks! LU
Hi Berean,
You said:
The Father had needed, needs the Son for all things and so yes, HE IS (as the one true God) INTERDEPENDENT ON THE SON ,BECAUSE HE IS A JUST AND GOOD GOD.
Do you agree that there are two persons who existed before creation that are interdependent to each other, one who remained God in nature and another who began in the same nature as the other but then also took on human nature? In other words, One of the two persons before creation remained purely God natured and the other of the two persons did not remain purely God natured but also became human in nature? Thus there was the “one true God” and the other became “the one true God AND true Man”?
Blessings, LU
Proclaimer:
You said:
If you agree that the first Adam was a prototype, then why not the final Adam?
The second Adam was a life giving spirit. Is there another person that is a life giving spirit modeled after the second Adam? I don’t know of any.
Jesus is the firstborn from the dead and there are many to follow that act of being begotten from the dead. Those who follow can never be of the same type of being as the One who pre-existed his humanity. Those who follow are the same type of being as each other who did not pre-exist their humanity though. That is a big difference. We can never be the same type of being as the One who is both God natured and human natured.
The best we can do is to be like Him in our spirit, being full of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, joyfulness, and self-control, full of grace and truth, and in all humility honoring and obeying both the Father and the Son.
Hi LU
Do you agree that there are two persons who existed before creation that are interdependent to each other, one who remained God in nature and another who began in the same nature as the other but then also took on human nature? In other words, One of the two persons before creation remained purely God natured and the other of the two persons did not remain purely God natured but also became human in nature? Thus there was the “one true God” and the other became “the one true God AND true Man”?
Me
The New Testament apostles believed in Jesus as the Son of God and the Son of Man.
They believed him to be “one hundred percent divine” and “one hundred percent human.”
And therefore his identity: Son of God and Son of man.
His nature: divine/human.For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.(Col.2:9)
Blessings
Hi Gene,
First and foremost read please again:
IN MY POSTS Nos. #941923, 4, and 5
I elaborated regarding John17:1-3 AND FOR A REASON ONLY YOU KNOW,
you simply IGNORED THEM, NOW IN THOSE POSTS I ASKED BOTH YOU AND JODI,
WHERE WAS SATAN ON JESUS’DEATH? OR MORE PRECISELY
WHAT HAPPENED TO SATAN ON JESUS’DEATH ON THE CROSS?
WILL YOU REMAIN SILENT?
You: Carmel…….You are one screwed up cookie, brother, are you a Johovah wittness, they also believe that Jesus was a preexisting angel like you?
Gene, for God’s sake,
JESUS PRE-EXISTED BEFORE ALL, ALSO
ALL WAS MADE BY HIM,
THIS MEANS THAT ALL THE ENTIRE HEAVENLY REALMS, AS I EXPLAINED MANY TIMES WERE CREATED BY
“THE WORD” A SPIRIT OF GOD, THE WORD SPOKEN OF GOD.
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT
IT’S YOUR PIGEON! I’M AFRAID.
YOU ARE LIVING A COMPLETE CONFUSION SINCE YOU DENY JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE!
Read again scripture please:
Judges 2:1And an angel of the Lord went up from Galgal to the place of weepers, and said:
I made you go out of Egypt, and have brought you into the land for which I swore to your fathers:
and I promised that I would not make void my covenant with you forever:WHO IS THIS ANGEL OF THE LORD ABOVE!
ARE YOU A GENTLEMAN ENOUGH TO ANSWER
ONE QUESTION?
ALSO BE AWARE THAT
JESUS AS A SPIRIT WAS PERSONIFIED IN ALL THE FIRSTS, AND BEGINNINGS. TO BE CLEAR:
HE WAS PERSONIFIED IN
LUCIFER, ADAM EVE, CAIN, ABEL ENOCH, NOAH, ABRAHAM, ISACC, JACOB, ATC. ATC. ATC. BUT MOST IMPORTANT
HE WAS PERSONIFIED IN
HIS FATHER DAVID, and
HIS MOTHER MARY!
THE LIST IS ENDLESS AGAIN
ALL IN/BY HIM!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
CARMEL…….Just produce “one” scripture that says, “Jesus “pre-existed” as a live being before he existed on this earth” , or even more simple, He was alive before he was born on this earth, or any activity recorded in scriptures showing, i mean clear activity, not scriptures you have to add , your own thoughts to try to force the text to say what infact it is not actually saying.
Carmel just post the scriptures , not your rendetions of them , every thing in your reference to scriptures, you are constantly, changing them to meet your , “so called ” “spirit” Guided opinions. So, because you “think” you are “Spirit” guided person you can just change what scriptures actually say, and force the text to meet your own personal views?
I have not seen written in our scriptures, so much as , one “actual” activity of Jesus in heaven or earth , before his actual birth.
Jesus did not actually exist , except in the plan and will of God, from the very beginning of, God’s creation, until his birth on this earth , he was simply in the plan as the finish product of God the Fathers creation of mankind? He is what God has in mind for all of us, he is the finish product of us. We are in the process of bei g “EXACTLY” like him in every way , without exception, we are as , scripture says, (not me) …..” one of his brethern” , in every way not just some ways.
Why do you think it says , (not me) , Heb 2:17…..“wherefore in all things it “behoved him” , to be made like unto HIS “BRETHERN”,…., now tell us why would it say, “it behove” him”?, Seening in your opinion he is a prexisting being , who God created everything through, or by?
Please inform us of why , only please us the scriptures , Ok?
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel……..gene
Gene
Just produce “one” scripture that says, “Jesus “pre-existed” as a live being before he existed on this earth”
Me
The Bible Say by the Mouthe OF Jesus :
Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.Gene (posted a third time without your reply, btw.),
Who is speaking in this passage:
7I will proclaim the decree
spoken to Me by the LORD:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.
Was that spoken in the New Testament or the Old Testament?
Please answer both of those questions Gene.
Blessings, LU
Hi Gene,
Read this scripture please:
Judges 2:1And an angel of the Lord went up from Galgal to the place of weepers, and said:
I made you go out of Egypt, and have brought you into the land for which I swore to your fathers:
and I promised that I would not make void my covenant with you forever:Now Answer please:
WHO IS THIS ANGEL OF THE LORD ABOVE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel……makes no difference who that Angel or, “messenger” was, he was still speaking the words of God, not his own words, as your trying to portray . Even the Angel at the Burning bush with Moses was speaking God the Fathers words, not his own words. Show me any scripture that say Angels are God’s, just one Carmel, none , but scripture does say what Angels are, millions of them. Here’s your answer from scripture (not me)…
Heb 1:5……” for unto which of the Angels said he at “anytime” Thou art my son this day i have begotten you? (Answer is none), And again , “i will be” (a future tense expression) to him, a father, and he (Jesus) , “shall be”, (again a future tense expression) a Son”?
Also please read, VERSES, 6 7,8,.
Now the above shows clearly, that the Son of God being spoken of there did not exist at the time that was spoken can you See that? And it also shows that he was no Angel. Now can you or are you able , to understand that Carmel?
If you are unable to understand that, then there is no point in me continuing this debate with you, because no ground is beining made here.
Please address the scriptures i quoted to you which are in your bibles? IF YOU CAN’T AT LEST DO THAT THEN HOW CAN WE CONTINUE?
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel……….gene
LU……it was a “prophisied” event that was “going” to take place, The Book of Hebrews 1:15 , proves it , as i posted to CARMEL above , just read and study it, there you have your answers, it’s both in the old Testement and the New as many things in scriptures are.
Peace and love to you and yours LU……….gene
LU……it was a “prophisied” event that was “going” to take place, The Book of Hebrews 1:15 , proves it , as i posted to CARMEL above , just read and study it, there you have your answers, it’s both in the old Testement and the New as many things in scriptures are.
Peace and love to you and yours LU……….gene
Hi Gene,
Yes, it is about a future event. My question was…who said the prophesy? Who said:
“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Who is the I, Me, and the You that told the prophesy in the OT?
Berean,
You said:
Only GOD THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN PERSON.
Is Jesus the true God in person who will inherit the nations?
LU……I see your problem, you thinking that Jesus said those words right at the time they were written down in Psa 2:7, thats your error, no that wasen’t Jesus speaking , it was a prophesy about what God the Father and Jesus would be saying and doing, in a future time. A time when the Kings and rulers of the earth will come and and try to break the bond between Jesus the Messiah and GOD his and our Father.
That whole thing given in Psa 2:3-12, is a future event described by the Peophet who wrote the text, and it wasn’t Jesus who wrote nor said it. Jesus didn’t even exist yet and had not been even anointed with the Spirit of God yet, when that was written .
If that is all you have got to try to prove Jesus existed before his birth on this earth , that not much LU.
LU…..why haven’t you nor Carmel addressed the scripture i have quoted to you both? Why as me ober and over to address your but you both do not address my scriptures i post, why is that?
Peace and love to you and your LU…………gene
Hi Gene,
CARMEL…….Just produce “one” scripture that says, “Jesus “pre-existed” as a live being before he existed on this earth” , or even more simple,
He was alive before he was born on this earth,
or any activity recorded in scriptures showing, i mean clear activity, not scriptures you have to add , your own thoughts to try to force the text to say what infact it is not actually saying.
Let start:
Hereunder is Jesus AS A SPIRIT personified in the rock.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all eat the same SPIRITUAL FOOD,
4And all drank the same SPIRITUAL DRINK; (and they drank of
the SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them,
and the rock was Christ.)
Now, read again and tell me what does the scripture hereunder say?
Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;
but received me as an angel of God,
even as Christ Jesus.Now again:
5 I will therefore admonish you, though ye once knew all things,
that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
did afterwards destroy them that believed not:
Read again this scripture please:
Judges 2:1And an angel of the Lord went up from Galgal to the place of weepers, and said:
I made you go out of Egypt, and have brought you into the land for which I swore to your fathers:
and I promised that I would not make void my covenant with you forever:Gene, JESUS PERSONIFIED in that angel of the lord !
JESUS, AS A SPIRIT IS THE GOD OF ISRAEL AND THE SAVIOUR, HIDDEN!
READ HEREUNDER:
Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a hidden God,
the God of Israel the saviour.
Now, produce scripture that specifically says that Joshua SAVED the Jews.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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