In jesus' name

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 12 2010,21:12)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2010,11:34) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 12 2010,11:13) TO ALL: I don't need to take much space to show that when a person acts in another person's name it means that the person is acting on the authority of the other person. The works that Jesus did in the days of His flesh were in His Father's name. He plainly said so and He meant that He acted on Hs Father's authority. The works that the apostles did in the book of Acts were “in the name of Jesus”, that is, on the authority of Jesus. This in itself does not prove that Jesus in His exalted condition had equal authority with the Father. But…. Jesus said that the Father would send the Holy Spirit in His name: 25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26 This is just another scripture that proves that Jesus enjoys a position of EQUALITY at the Father's right hand. For as Jesus acted in the Father's name and on His authority in the days He was a servant, so the Father acts in the name and the authority of the exalted Jesus. This CLEARLY infers Christ's equality with His Father. So get out your magic wands and wave them over John 14:26 and say the words, “Abra cadabra!”,  and the phrase “in my name” will will not mean that the Father sent the Spirit on Christ's authority. Just use your magic and the Usus Loquendi of the idiom “in my name” in John 14:26 will magically become an exception. thinker Hi thethinker: He is still acting in His Father's name.  It is God who exalted him to his position as head of the church.  He watches over the Word of God that he obeyed and that was spoken by God to humanity through him while on his ministry on earth to perform it. When we obey him we are obeying God.  There is only “One God”. And it is He who sits on the throne: Quote Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, Rev 5:10 And have made us [fn] kings [fn] and priests to our God; And we [fn] shall reign on the earth.” Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!” Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power [Be] to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, You did not address my point at all. thinker

HI thethinker:

Yes, I addressed it, but what is the point? You will just keep going on and on without hearing what is being said.

Love in Christ,|
Marty

[KangarooJack]

On another thread WorshippingJesus said to Marty:

Quote

Marty You asked me to show you how the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus and I showed you plainly that the Holy Spirit is “Another” that the Father and Jesus sends. You think that because Jesus prayed to the Father that somehow that takes away from Jesus “Sending” the Holy Spirit. Did he send the Father? Then I show you John 16:13-15 and you totally ignore that! How does his praying to the Father have anything to do with the Holy Spirit taking from Jesus and glorifying Jesus and speaking only what he hears from Jesus and showing it unto us? So believe as you will brother. Goodbye! WJ

WJ,
They believe as they must because they lack the humility to admit that they have erred. Jesus CLEARLY said that the Father sends the Holy Spirit IN HIS NAME (on Christ's authority).

But their anti-christian presuppositions will not allow them to accept it.

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 14 2010,21:49)

WJ, They believe as they must because they lack the humility to admit that they have erred. Jesus CLEARLY said that the Father sends the Holy Spirit IN HIS NAME (on Christ's authority). But their anti-christian presuppositions will not allow them to accept it. thinker

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2010,11:47)

Can’t be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. WJ

Hi Thinker,

You and WJ both basically just simply say “HolySpirit” 'can't be the Father', but offer NO explain as to why?

Please explain HOW the “HolySpirit” is disqualified from being the Father?

Ed J

[karmarie]

Ed, for a small while I realy wondered about what you were saying-    I was nearly decieved!!!  sorry but you need my help.

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 14 2010,22:16)

Ed, for a small while I realy wondered about what you were saying-    I was nearly decieved!!!  sorry but you need my help.

Hi karmarie,

I always appreciate the help of people, what kind of help are you offering?

Ed J

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 14 2010,11:02)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 12 2010,21:12) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2010,11:34) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 12 2010,11:13) TO ALL: I don't need to take much space to show that when a person acts in another person's name it means that the person is acting on the authority of the other person. The works that Jesus did in the days of His flesh were in His Father's name. He plainly said so and He meant that He acted on Hs Father's authority. The works that the apostles did in the book of Acts were “in the name of Jesus”, that is, on the authority of Jesus. This in itself does not prove that Jesus in His exalted condition had equal authority with the Father. But…. Jesus said that the Father would send the Holy Spirit in His name: 25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26 This is just another scripture that proves that Jesus enjoys a position of EQUALITY at the Father's right hand. For as Jesus acted in the Father's name and on His authority in the days He was a servant, so the Father acts in the name and the authority of the exalted Jesus. This CLEARLY infers Christ's equality with His Father. So get out your magic wands and wave them over John 14:26 and say the words, “Abra cadabra!”,  and the phrase “in my name” will will not mean that the Father sent the Spirit on Christ's authority. Just use your magic and the Usus Loquendi of the idiom “in my name” in John 14:26 will magically become an exception. thinker Hi thethinker: He is still acting in His Father's name.  It is God who exalted him to his position as head of the church.  He watches over the Word of God that he obeyed and that was spoken by God to humanity through him while on his ministry on earth to perform it. When we obey him we are obeying God.  There is only “One God”. And it is He who sits on the throne: Quote Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, Rev 5:10 And have made us [fn] kings [fn] and priests to our God; And we [fn] shall reign on the earth.” Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!” Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power [Be] to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, You did not address my point at all. thinker HI thethinker: Yes, I addressed it, but what is the point? You will just keep going on and on without hearing what is being said. Love in Christ,| Marty

Marty,

You did NOT address my point at all. You said that Christ is still acting in His Father''s name. But my point was that the Father sent the Spirit in Christ's name.

So be careful not to accuse me of not hearing you when you are being evasive or you have a reading comprehension problem.

Again I ask you: Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in My name” i.e., “on My authority”. Quit with the song and dance and just give a direct answer to what Jesus said.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 14 2010,12:37)

Marty, You did NOT address my point at all. You said that Christ is still acting in His Father''s name. But my point was that the Father sent the Spirit in Christ's name. So be careful not to accuse me of not hearing you when you are being evasive or you have a reading comprehension problem. Again I ask you: Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in My name” i.e., “on My authority”. Quit with the song and dance and just give a direct answer to what Jesus said. thinker

Jack

Excellent point!

The fact that the Holy Spirit is sent in Jesus name is proof that the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus and also proof that the Holy Spirit is “Another”. Matt 28:19 John 14:16

To them the Father sent himself in Jesus name!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Proof?
You are too easily smitten with your logic.
The Spirit was GIVEN to Jesus and Jesus gives the Spirit of God to his body.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,04:51)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 14 2010,12:37) Marty, You did NOT address my point at all. You said that Christ is still acting in His Father''s name. But my point was that the Father sent the Spirit in Christ's name. So be careful not to accuse me of not hearing you when you are being evasive or you have a reading comprehension problem. Again I ask you: Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in My name” i.e., “on My authority”. Quit with the song and dance and just give a direct answer to what Jesus said. thinker Jack Excellent point! The fact that the Holy Spirit is sent in Jesus name is proof that the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus. To them the Father sent himself in Jesus name! WJ

Keith,

Anti-trinitarianism as ALL other anti-christian doctrines is based in half truths from select scriptures.

Anti-trinitarians approach the Bible like they would a jig saw puzzle with a picture they don't like. They say, “We don't like the picture on the cover of the box so let's take the pieces and create a picture of our own.” So they cut some pieces and join them with other pieces that do not belong and they force them to fit. They put blue sky in with the green grass and some sunset in the sidewalk. A whole lot of re-cutting must take place to make all the pieces fit. The end result is a distorted picture that it incomprehensible and that is totally other than what the author created.

Anti-trinitarians just don't like the Jesus of the scriptures just as the Jews did not like Him.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
That Spirit of God ever proceeds from God uniting him with His son and those in him.
God is all in all.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,05:01)

Hi WJ, Proof? You are too easily smitten with your logic. The Spirit was GIVEN to Jesus and Jesus gives the Spirit of God to his body.

Yes Nick! Jesus Himself gives the Spirit. Your admission does not help your case. The Spirit was sent by the Father IN JESUS' NAME (or authority).

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
The gifts of God are given without repentance[Rom]
God gave His Spirit to His son along with all such authority.
Yet God is never separate from His own Living and powerful Spirit

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,13:08)

Hi WJ, That Spirit of God ever proceeds from God uniting him with His son and those in him. God is all in all.

NH

Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God and the Spirit proceeds from both him and the Father!

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, “proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb“. Rev 22:1

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So he has been GIVEN all authority by his greater God yet you would make him another God?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,05:19)

Hi TT, So he has been GIVEN all authority by his greater God yet you would make him another God?

He was given back what He gave up of His own volition in the first place (Philippians 2).

Now answer the main point of this thread please. Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in MY name” (or MY authority).

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,05:18)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,13:08) Hi WJ, That Spirit of God ever proceeds from God uniting him with His son and those in him. God is all in all. NH Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God and the Spirit proceeds from both him and the Father! And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, “proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb“. Rev 22:1 WJ

Keith,

I can't get any of the anti-trinitarians here to talk about Jesus' statement that the Father sent the Spirit in Jesus' name (or on His authority).

Why do you suppose that is?

Jack

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:36)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,05:19) Hi TT, So he has been GIVEN all authority by his greater God yet you would make him another God? He was given back what He agve up of His own volition in the first place (Philippians 2). Now answer the main point of this thread please. Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in MY name” (or MY authority). thinker

Hi TT,
Phil 2 does not say he previously had full authority and power.
What do you base this thought on?

God gave him to share in His own Spirit with all His power and authority including the right to share that Spirit with his brothers.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,14:43)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,05:19) Hi TT, So he has been GIVEN all authority by his greater God yet you would make him another God? He was given back what He agve up of His own volition in the first place (Philippians 2). Now answer the main point of this thread please. Jesus said that the Father would send the Spirit “in MY name” (or MY authority). thinker Hi TT, Phil 2 does not say he previously had full authority and power. What do you base this thought on? God gave him to share in His own Spirit with all His power and authority including the right to share that Spirit with his brothers.

NH

No Phil 2:6 says he was equal to God but did not consider it something to be held onto!

World renown Greek Grammarian AT Robertson writes…

Phil 2:6

Being (uparcwn). Rather, “existing,” present active participle of uparcw. In the form of God (en morph qeou). Morph means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ. A prize (arpagmon). Predicate accusative with hghsato. Originally words in -mo signified the act, not the result (-ma). The few examples of arpagmo (Plutarch, etc.) allow it to be understood as equivalent to arpagma, like baptismo and baptisma. That is to say Paul means a prize to be held on to rather than something to be won (“robbery”). To be on an equality with God (to einai isa qeoi). Accusative articular infinitive object of hghsato, “the being equal with God” (associative instrumental case qewi after isa). Isa is adverbial use of neuter plural with einai as in Revelation 21:16 . Emptied himself (eauton ekenwse). First aorist active indicative of kenow, old verb from keno, empty. Of what did Christ empty himself? Not of his divine nature.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The KJV gives an odd rendering of the verse-try others and compare.
Your self justifying theologians would make such claims.
Form does not seem to include POWER

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 14 2010,14:17)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,05:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,13:08) Hi WJ, That Spirit of God ever proceeds from God uniting him with His son and those in him. God is all in all. NH Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God and the Spirit proceeds from both him and the Father! And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, “proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb“. Rev 22:1 WJ Keith, I can't get any of the anti-trinitarians here to talk about Jesus' statement that the Father sent the Spirit in Jesus' name (or on His authority). Why do you suppose that is? Jack

Jack

I wonder what they say about “JESUS” sending the Holy Spirit in his own name?

WJ

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