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Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
kejonn Did you ever change your mind about something? I think we all have. If I say I am not going and then change my mind and go later on, I am not a liar. Come on neither is Jesus, that is up-cert.
It could be that Jesus changed His mind and later went, but when He saw His Brothers going, He went to.
verse 10
I find nothing wrong with that, I have changed my mind before.
Peace and Love Irenekejonn,
I know that's what you want to believe, but if you read back a few verses it becomes plain that what He was saying is it was not yet time for His public manifestation (so He went in secret).John 7 (Young's Literal Translation) 3 his brethren, therefore, said unto him, `Remove hence, and go away to Judea, that thy disciples also may behold thy works that thou dost; 4 for no one in secret doth anything, and himself seeketh to be in public; if thou dost these things — manifest thyself to the world;' 5for not even were his brethren believing in him. 6Jesus, therefore, saith to them, `My time is not yet present, but your time is always ready; 7the world is not able to hate you, but me it doth hate, because I testify concerning it that its works are evil. 8Ye — go ye up to this feast; I do not yet go up to this feast, because my time hath not yet been fulfilled;' 9and saying these things to them, he remained in Galilee. 10And when his brethren went up, then also he himself went up to the feast, not manifestly, but as in secret; 11the Jews, therefore, were seeking him, in the feast, and said, `Where is that one?'
Wm
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Hi KJ:God raised him from the dead and so if God says that he did not sin than who shall I believe Him or you.
Apparently there are some manuscipt variations below is the translation given by the KJV and the NIV:
Quote Jhn 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. Quote Jhn 7:8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet[fn1] going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.”
The footnote states that some manuscripts do not have the word “yet”, but I believe that he meant “yet” because he did not want to go to the feast pubically because the Pharisees wanted to kill him.
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 01 2008,21:59) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
kejonn Did you ever change your mind about something? I think we all have. If I say I am not going and then change my mind and go later on, I am not a liar. Come on neither is Jesus, that is up-cert.Then Jesus was fully human (like us) and not perfect.
Quote It could be that Jesus changed His mind and later went, but when He saw His Brothers going, He went to.
verse 10
I find nothing wrong with that, I have changed my mind before.
Peace and Love Irene
He said he would not go because his time had not fully come. Did that change in a matter of hours?Quote (942767 @ Sep. 01 2008,22:25) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Hi KJ:God raised him from the dead and so if God says that he did not sin than who shall I believe Him or you.
What makes you think that the words written by men are the words of God? Just assumption with 0% proof.
Quote Apparently there are some manuscipt variations below is the translation given by the KJV and the NIV: Quote Jhn 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. Quote Jhn 7:8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet[fn1] going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.”
The footnote states that some manuscripts do not have the word “yet”, but I believe that he meant “yet” because he did not want to go to the feast pubically because the Pharisees wanted to kill him.
To be bluntly honest, who cares what you believe? You are almost 2000 years after the event, what you say has little bearing on what was written.Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 01 2008,22:25) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Hi KJ:God raised him from the dead and so if God says that he did not sin than who shall I believe Him or you.
What makes you think that the words written by men are the words of God? Just assumption with 0% proof.
Quote Apparently there are some manuscipt variations below is the translation given by the KJV and the NIV: Quote Jhn 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. Quote Jhn 7:8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet[fn1] going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.”
The footnote states that some manuscripts do not have the word “yet”, but I believe that he meant “yet” because he did not want to go to the feast pubically because the Pharisees wanted to kill him.
To be bluntly honest, who cares what you believe? You are almost 2000 years after the event, what you say has little bearing on what was written.
God's Spirit within me testifies to the fact that the Word of God is true. There are some translation errors and so I was showing you that there was a error in the translation. I know that Jesus did not sin because God's Spirit within me testifies to this, and whether or not you care what I believe, I do care what you believe and that you are accusing my Lord of sin, and so, I am not going to let you post a lie without showing those who are reading the truth.Quote (942767 @ Sep. 01 2008,22:43) I know that Jesus did not sin because God's Spirit within me testifies to this, and whether or not you care what I believe, I do care what you believe and that you are accusing my Lord of sin, and so, I am not going to let you post a lie without showing those who are reading the truth.
You have failed in your task.Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 01 2008,22:11) kejonn,
I know that's what you want to believe, but if you read back a few verses it becomes plain that what He was saying is it was not yet time for His public manifestation (so He went in secret).
Why must Jesus' followers make up excuses for his words? His words were plain: “I am not going up to this feast”. No matter the excuse, he lied. Is a “white lie” any better?Quote (942767 @ Sep. 02 2008,15:43) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 01 2008,22:25) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Hi KJ:God raised him from the dead and so if God says that he did not sin than who shall I believe Him or you.
What makes you think that the words written by men are the words of God? Just assumption with 0% proof.
Quote Apparently there are some manuscipt variations below is the translation given by the KJV and the NIV: Quote Jhn 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. Quote Jhn 7:8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet[fn1] going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.”
The footnote states that some manuscripts do not have the word “yet”, but I believe that he meant “yet” because he did not want to go to the feast pubically because the Pharisees wanted to kill him.
To be bluntly honest, who cares what you believe? You are almost 2000 years after the event, what you say has little bearing on what was written.
God's Spirit within me testifies to the fact that the Word of God is true. There are some translation errors and so I was showing you that there was a error in the translation. I know that Jesus did not sin because God's Spirit within me testifies to this, and whether or not you care what I believe, I do care what you believe and that you are accusing my Lord of sin, and so, I am not going to let you post a lie without showing those who are reading the truth.
942767 Keep up your good work, we who believe the Word of God need to support each other and you are right that God's Holy Spirit will tell us which is right or wrong.
Peace and Love IreneHi 90210
“God's Spirit within me testifies” is what insane killers tell the trial jury. I think this 'testimony' is the last grasp plea of someone whose argument does not hve a leg to stand on.
Stuart
I am not jumping on the bandwagon as if to accuse Jesus of something bad.
I have always wondered why we said that He was sinless.
If anyone else in those times had broken even the least of the laws of God,
they would have been cast as a sinner. And probably stoned to death to boot.
But Jesus worked on the sabbath, He refused to follow the law of stoning a
prostitute, and He perhaps told a little untruth about the feast. Remember there are different kinds
of lies, and a lie of ommision is still a lie.Now the fact that He did many of these things for good reason is true.
But it still “missed the mark” and was a sin if anyone other than Jesus had done it.
So why do we call Him sinless? Weren't the laws of God for everyone?
I have never been comfortable with the argument that with God you should do as I say,
not as I do, just because I am God.I would really like to know why those things were not considered sin just because
they were done by Jesus. Some explanation other than because God said so that is why.TIm
Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 02 2008,09:16) I am not jumping on the bandwagon as if to accuse Jesus of something bad.
I have always wondered why we said that He was sinless.
The “sinless” part came along after the character of Jesus was actually around. People were likely questioning what was so special about Jesus' “sacrifice” so the spin doctors (Paul and others) had to come up with something. The “spotless lamb” was the result.The Jesus that is portrayed in Mark is certainly not sin free. He speaks out against dietary laws, working on the Sabbath, and calls only God good. Let us not forget that the Jesus of GMark was the first one to be released to the public and likely the one that was closest to the actual real person of Jesus.
Many people that reject the trinity doctrine, are still blindly entangled in the net at the foundations, they don't wear priest robes, but hold the left overs up, as they fail to see where the Mischief was performed?
Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 03 2008,02:16) I am not jumping on the bandwagon as if to accuse Jesus of something bad.
I have always wondered why we said that He was sinless.
If anyone else in those times had broken even the least of the laws of God,
they would have been cast as a sinner. And probably stoned to death to boot.
But Jesus worked on the sabbath, He refused to follow the law of stoning a
prostitute, and He perhaps told a little untruth about the feast. Remember there are different kinds
of lies, and a lie of ommision is still a lie.Now the fact that He did many of these things for good reason is true.
But it still “missed the mark” and was a sin if anyone other than Jesus had done it.
So why do we call Him sinless? Weren't the laws of God for everyone?
I have never been comfortable with the argument that with God you should do as I say,
not as I do, just because I am God.I would really like to know why those things were not considered sin just because
they were done by Jesus. Some explanation other than because God said so that is why.TIm
Hi Tim:The following scriptures will answer about the accusation of Jesus breaking the Sabbath:
Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2008,13:33) Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 03 2008,02:16) I am not jumping on the bandwagon as if to accuse Jesus of something bad.
I have always wondered why we said that He was sinless.
If anyone else in those times had broken even the least of the laws of God,
they would have been cast as a sinner. And probably stoned to death to boot.
But Jesus worked on the sabbath, He refused to follow the law of stoning a
prostitute, and He perhaps told a little untruth about the feast. Remember there are different kinds
of lies, and a lie of ommision is still a lie.Now the fact that He did many of these things for good reason is true.
But it still “missed the mark” and was a sin if anyone other than Jesus had done it.
So why do we call Him sinless? Weren't the laws of God for everyone?
I have never been comfortable with the argument that with God you should do as I say,
not as I do, just because I am God.I would really like to know why those things were not considered sin just because
they were done by Jesus. Some explanation other than because God said so that is why.TIm
Hi Tim:The following scriptures will answer about the accusation of Jesus breaking the Sabbath:
Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.
Hi 94,
Thank you for the response.
But in Luke wasn't Jesus just saying the accusers were
hypocrites because He was just doing the same thing that
they were guilty of?Just because every one else was doing work on the sabbath,
did that make it an invalid law? Jesus not only healed on the sabbath, He and his followers gathered food on the sabbath.
That would have been considered a sin in those days.I am not trying to make Jesus oout to be a sinner. I merely want to know why it wasn't a sin when Jesus did something that would have been a sin if done by any body else.
Tim
Tim
Tim,
Quote Jesus worked on the sabbath
The pharisees had taken the commandment to an extreme and held their traditions of more importance then the commands of God. To me it seems the trouble lies in what is classified as “work”.As to working on the Sabbath.
Mark 2:23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. (BTW it also does not say Jesus picked or ate any himself). The disciples were not harvesting a bushel of grain (which would have been work), they grabbed something to eat as they went.As to healing on the Sabbath being work.
Remember it was not a commandment to “thou shall not heal”, this was the Pharisee's interpretation. Matthew 12:12 Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”Quote He refused to follow the law of stoning a prostitute
As to not stoning the prostitute.
He did not say “do not stone her” but when asked he only told them how to do it. Once He was the only one left He showed that “mercy triumphs over judgment!”Quote He perhaps told a little untruth about the feast. remember there are different kinds of lies, and a lie of ommision is still a lie.
As to “telling a little untruth”.
If you read back a few verses it becomes plain that what He was saying is He was not going to make His public manifestation at that time (so He went in secret).Quote
But in Luke wasn't Jesus just saying the accusers were hypocrites because He was just doing the same thing that they were guilty of?
No Jesus did not say it was wrong to do those things the pharisees did (He said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath).Sin is “a transgression of God's will” but Jesus said “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does”. His life reflected the love and mercy of the Father and His anger for the self-righteous, sounds sinless to me.
In my opinion – Wm
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