I'm pretty much done posting here.

[kejonn]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 07 2008,17:08)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 08 2008,07:42) Kevin, I joined beliefnet.  My name there is BeeKeeper (“Mandy” was taken).  It's a cool site, thanks. Mandy! That IMO was not a good idea to do. I wish you lots of luck, hopefully you do not fall like Kejonn. Peace and Love Irene

There are many strong Christians on beliefnet, Mrs. Their participation there has not seemed to change their faith.

I have not “fallen”, I have merely chosen another path. You chose the path of Christianity. When you first started out, you chose the Catholic path, and likely saw it as “true” when you were part of it. Then, as you were part of the WWCoG, you also likely felt it was the “true” way. Now, whatever path you are on seems right to you.

When it comes to spirituality and faith, no one has been shown to be “right”. Your beliefs are every bit as valid as a Muslim's. Neither of you can provide evidence beyond your holy books that give evidence of your religion's validity. In the end, it comes down to choice.

[942767]

Hi KJ:

The following booklet that discusses whether or not Jesus refuted God's laws pertaining to unclean meats.  It may interest you.

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/meatdistinctions.htm

[kejonn]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 07 2008,21:43)

Hi KJ: The following booklet that discusses whether or not Jesus refuted God's laws pertaining to unclean meats.  It may interest you. http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/meatdistinctions.htm

Thanks. What I see is someone taking a position. I could take 5 minutes and find an opposing view from another Christian site that takes another position. Since Jesus is not around to clarify, both positions will be “right”. All you have to do is look over the threads in the “Believer's Place” to realize the bible can lead to all sorts of opposing views because the people who read it have different thought processes.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Sep. 06 2008,23:47)

OK. We have already established that Saul of Tarsus has immunised you from reality.

You see Stu, comment like that show how biased or unopened your mind is to things outside your tiny realm of experience. It also explains 2 things. One why I and perhaps others don't take you that seriously and 2 why you lack certain insight into things.

This comment puts your other comments into perspective.

Here is a little bit of advice from the scriptures.

Galatians 5:9
9 “It only takes a minute amount of yeast to permeate an entire loaf of bread.”

Of course I don't expect you to understand it, but that is one of the great things with scripture. It is only revealed to those whom God reveals it. It is hidden from the proud and boastful.

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2008,21:10)

Quote (Stu @ Sep. 06 2008,23:47) OK.  We have already established that Saul of Tarsus has immunised you from reality. You see Stu, comment like that show how biased or unopened your mind is to things outside your tiny realm of experience. It also explains 2 things. One why I and perhaps others don't take you that seriously and 2 why you lack certain insight into things. This comment puts your other comments into perspective. Here is a little bit of advice from the scriptures. Galatians 5:9 9 “It only takes a minute amount of yeast to permeate an entire loaf of bread.” Of course I don't expect you to understand it, but that is one of the great things with scripture. It is only revealed to those whom God reveals it. It is hidden from the proud and boastful.

I am yeast.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

Good boy Stu. 10 points for trying.

I will pose this to you a few years from now to see how your development is coming along.

[Stu]

You will pose what to me?

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

The same question.

[Stu]

Are you writing in tongues, t8?

Stuart

[942767]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,19:50)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 07 2008,21:43) Hi KJ: The following booklet that discusses whether or not Jesus refuted God's laws pertaining to unclean meats.  It may interest you. http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/meatdistinctions.htm Thanks. What I see is someone taking a position. I could take 5 minutes and find an opposing view from another Christian site that takes another position. Since Jesus is not around to clarify, both positions will be “right”. All you have to do is look over the threads in the “Believer's Place” to realize the bible can lead to all sorts of opposing views because the people who read it have different thought processes.

Hi KJ:

The word translated as “meats” in the following scripture is a mistranslation. It should be “foods”. Jesus did not refute the dietary laws. Actually, I am glad that you brought this up because the church needs to be corrected on this issue.

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Number 1033
Transliteration:
broma {bro'-mah}
Word Origin:
from the base of 977
TDNT:
1:642,111
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
meat 16, victual 1

Total: 17
Definition:
that which is eaten, food
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

[seekingtruth]

In regards to the topic of dietary law being discussed, an earlier verse to the one being discussed states “For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders.”  He was not talking about eating pork (as Kejonn keeps saying) but had to do with eating with hands not washed per the traditions (not the Law) handed down.

Paraphrasing I believe what He was saying is, “food goes into the body it pulls what is needed then purges out of the body (in other words it does not remain in the body)”. It is the decisions we make that defile us (in other words we continue to live with our decisions). It would be the decision to ignore God's comandment and eat forbidden food which would defile the man, not the food itself.

My opinion – Wm

[seekingtruth]

Quote

Thanks. What I see is someone taking a position. I could take 5 minutes and find an opposing view from another Christian site that takes another position. Since Jesus is not around to clarify, both positions will be “right”. All you have to do is look over the threads in the “Believer's Place” to realize the bible can lead to all sorts of opposing views because the people who read it have different thought processes.

KJ,
Same can be said of science. but only one thing can be true (opposing views cannot both be true), whether Theology or science we all have varying amounts of truth and in different areas.

Not everything can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt. I choose to believe all facts as observed, I choose to believe that the creation I see all around me required intelligence, I choose to believe that the Creator would provide us (His creation) with the means to know Him. To me the scriptures lay out what seems to me to be a plausible account of creation and explains the state and behaviour of mankind. Your free to believe whatever you want to believe, by my belief I'm not responsible for your acceptance of what I believe, only for the telling and for having a behaviour which won't cause someone to stumble on my account.

My opinion – Wm

[942767]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 09 2008,10:11)

In regards to the topic of dietary law being discussed, an earlier verse to the one being discussed states “For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders.”  He was not talking about eating pork (as Kejonn keeps saying) but had to do with eating with hands not washed per the traditions (not the Law) handed down. Paraphrasing I believe what He was saying is, “food goes into the body it pulls what is needed then purges out of the body (in other words it does not remain in the body)”. It is the decisions we make that defile us (in other words we continue to live with our decisions). It would be the decision to ignore God's comandment and eat forbidden food which would defile the man, not the food itself. My opinion – Wm

Amen.

[kejonn]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 08 2008,17:11)

In regards to the topic of dietary law being discussed, an earlier verse to the one being discussed states “For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders.”  He was not talking about eating pork (as Kejonn keeps saying) but had to do with eating with hands not washed per the traditions (not the Law) handed down. Paraphrasing I believe what He was saying is, “food goes into the body it pulls what is needed then purges out of the body (in other words it does not remain in the body)”. It is the decisions we make that defile us (in other words we continue to live with our decisions). It would be the decision to ignore God's comandment and eat forbidden food which would defile the man, not the food itself. My opinion – Wm

Your opinion does not match the opinion of the writer of GMark.

Mar 7:19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

The Netbible has a note for this verse (from

Mark 7

“This is a parenthetical note by the author.”

Thus, whoever authored the Gospel of Mark felt Jesus was saying all foods were clean, I would think that the author of the gospel would have a closer connection to Jesus' meaning than a Christian 1900 years later.

[kejonn]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 08 2008,18:29)

Quote Thanks. What I see is someone taking a position. I could take 5 minutes and find an opposing view from another Christian site that takes another position. Since Jesus is not around to clarify, both positions will be “right”. All you have to do is look over the threads in the “Believer's Place” to realize the bible can lead to all sorts of opposing views because the people who read it have different thought processes. KJ, Same can be said of science. but only one thing can be true (opposing views cannot both be true), whether Theology or science we all have varying amounts of truth and in different areas.

Only true to a very limited extent. There may be some fringe scientists who come up with differing findings, but most science is thoroughly put to the test to validate claims. The bible cannot be out to this same stringent set of standards as no one is around to validate its claims. Science can be tested through experimentation and peer review.

Quote

Not everything can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt. I choose to believe all facts as observed, I choose to believe that the creation I see all around me required intelligence, I choose to believe that the Creator would provide us (His creation) with the means to know Him. To me the scriptures lay out what seems to me to be a plausible account of creation and explains the state and behaviour of mankind. Your free to believe whatever you want to believe, by my belief I'm not responsible for your acceptance of what I believe, only for the telling and for having a behaviour which won't cause someone to stumble on my account. My opinion – Wm

Yes, to you is plausible. But you should not hold it against others who do not hold the same view. Your view cannot be proven and is the argument of the “god of the gaps”. There are many different creation stories, none being any more valid than the others.

[kejonn]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,16:06)

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,19:50) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 07 2008,21:43) Hi KJ: The following booklet that discusses whether or not Jesus refuted God's laws pertaining to unclean meats.  It may interest you. http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/meatdistinctions.htm Thanks. What I see is someone taking a position. I could take 5 minutes and find an opposing view from another Christian site that takes another position. Since Jesus is not around to clarify, both positions will be “right”. All you have to do is look over the threads in the “Believer's Place” to realize the bible can lead to all sorts of opposing views because the people who read it have different thought processes. Hi KJ: The word translated as “meats” in the following scripture is a mistranslation.  It should be “foods”.  Jesus did not refute the dietary laws.  Actually, I am glad that you brought this up because the church needs to be corrected on this issue. Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? Number 1033 Transliteration: broma {bro'-mah} Word Origin: from the base of 977 TDNT: 1:642,111 Part of Speech: noun neuter Usage in the KJV: meat 16, victual 1 Total: 17 Definition: that which is eaten, food TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

Foods or meats, does it make a difference? From Strong's

βρῶμα
brōma
bro'-mah
From the base of G977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonial) articles allowed or forbiden by the Jewish law: – meat, victuals.

Do you agree with Paul or not?

Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.

Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.

[942767]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:31)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 08 2008,17:11) In regards to the topic of dietary law being discussed, an earlier verse to the one being discussed states “For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders.”  He was not talking about eating pork (as Kejonn keeps saying) but had to do with eating with hands not washed per the traditions (not the Law) handed down. Paraphrasing I believe what He was saying is, “food goes into the body it pulls what is needed then purges out of the body (in other words it does not remain in the body)”. It is the decisions we make that defile us (in other words we continue to live with our decisions). It would be the decision to ignore God's comandment and eat forbidden food which would defile the man, not the food itself. My opinion – Wm Your opinion does not match the opinion of the writer of GMark. Mar 7:19  since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) The Netbible has a note for this verse (from Mark 7 “This is a parenthetical note by the author.” Thus, whoever authored the Gospel of Mark felt Jesus was saying all foods were clean, I would think that the author of the gospel would have a closer connection to Jesus' meaning than a Christian 1900 years later.

Why then isn't this parenthetical note in the Greek interlinear?

[kejonn]

The parenthetical is “purging all meats” found in the KJV. In the NASB it is “kaqarivzwn pavnta ta; brwvmata.” or “declared all foods clean”

[theodorej]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,12:43)

Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,18:45) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,03:17) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,09:27) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,06:51) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,12:48) God has given you a “free will” and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal. I have asked others this: how can you have free will if your god is omniscient? There are several passages in the bible that also deny free will. Greetings KJ….We are not robots or programables….We are living,breathing beings who are gifted with inteligence and a spirit or essense or personality that makes us who we are,this principle applies to all….Gods' omnicients affords him the ability to be all places and know all things( after all,He Is God)it has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the option to know him,and serve him….Our free will affords the choice to obey or not to obey…. TJ, does God know what actions you will take tomorrow? Greetings KJ……Yes he does !!, and as he also knows, I will be sinning….For this reason his forgiveness is readily available should I seek it …by being sorry and willing to exert the effort to change….Gods ever present Grace and love is available to all…All we need to do is seek him in an honest childlike frame of mind… So, if God knows what you will do tomorrow, that path has already been determined. Thus, no free will.

Greetings KJ………God knows Iam a sinner and Iam weak…my free will dictates that I do not have to be…I can elect to live according his law..

[Stu]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:35)

Yes, to you is plausible. But you should not hold it against others who do not hold the same view. Your view cannot be proven and is the argument of the “god of the gaps”. There are many different creation stories, none being any more valid than the others.

And indeed enough of the bible has been disproven by experiment to negate the claim that scripture is the truthful 'word' of a being that knows all. That transcends translation issues too. There may be truth codified in dietary laws but that should be called science as well – the knowledge gained from experimenting with eating different foods. Humans did not need to be told those things by a deity. As usual scientific knowledge is the most reliable kind and scripture is dispensible.

Stuart

[Author]

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