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Elijah,
are you expecting to be kicked off this site?
And, what happens if you're not?
What will you do then?To Eliyah,
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 15 2005,17:56) Ah, another Administrator comes out of the wood work on Eliyah C., A ? T8,
Both the Greek word “” theos “” and the English word ” god “” originates in paganism, which are idol image titles of other nation's pagan deities, and are not the original in Hebrew.
The Epistles of the Desciple were not originally written in greek, and all we have today, are copies of copies of copies of copies, and of copies.
The original language of the Desciples were Hebrew-Arahmaic.
I'm NOT going through explaining all this paganism that has been added by the copiests of the scriptures in the Greek and English translations again, so please go read all my previous posts.
It was said by YHWH through Yeremyah( Jer.) the Prophet in ( Yer.8:8) that the scriptures would be altered by the copiests and translators, and it is exactly so.
Eliyah C.
The word Elohim appears to be used in reference to God and others. I do not have a problem with that.The work 'Elohim' is often translated as theos when a NT writer quotes from the OT.
Like the word HE. It can be used to describe many even God. What is wrong with that?
He's not arguing that it can be used to describe Jehovah and idols.
He's saying that the word itself is of pagan origins.David,””
Quote Elijah,
are you expecting to be kicked off this site?
And, what happens if you're not?
What will you do then?I'm not expecting to be kicked off the site, because IF i'm kicked OFF, then that surely makes NICK and this forum's Administrators a liar IF they do.
Remember NICK saying ,””
Quote Never have and never will. 
??Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 15 2005,02:08) David,”” Quote Elijah,
are you expecting to be kicked off this site?
And, what happens if you're not?
What will you do then?I'm not expecting to be kicked off the site, because IF i'm kicked OFF, then that surely makes NICK and this forum's Administrators a liar IF they do.
Remember NICK saying ,””
Quote Never have and never will. ??
Hi e,
You have already labelled me as a liar several times so why stop now?Eliyah, even though you did not call t8 evil-minded, the tone of your comment about him is as if you think he was going to beat you up or something.
Anyway, as t8 wrote earlier, several general words in the Greek and Herbrew language are used in reference to Yahweh. Does Yahweh have a name? Sure, it's Yahweh. But unless I'm deceived, calling Him “God” isn't a sin. Yahweh is a God, the one true God.
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 15 2005,03:06) Well Are you ??
Hi e,
I prefer the judgements of the one appointed to do so.
Rom 3.4
” ..Rather let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”MrBob,
You said “””
Quote “”Eliyah, even though you did not call t8 evil-minded, the tone of your comment about him is as if you think he was going to beat you up or something. Anyway, as t8 wrote earlier, several general words in the Greek and Herbrew language are used in reference to Yahweh. Does Yahweh have a name? Sure, it's Yahweh. But unless I'm deceived, calling Him “God” isn't a sin. Yahweh is a God, the one true God
You first said,
Quote “” “”Eliyah, even though you did not call t8 evil-minded, the tone of your comment about him is as if you think he was going to beat you up or something Now Mr Bob, Why and How would I “” think “” that T8 was going to “” beat me up or something “”??
It's not likely that T8 could “” reach through this computer “” and “” beat me up” or ” something “, is it? Does he really have that “” LONG OF A ARM “”??
No, that was not my ” tone “, but my ” tone ” was that he had now read a warning message concerning the practice of Idolatry by ” syncretisim “, and that the religious institutions of this world are in fact worshipping satan the devil( Rev.9:20; Rev.13:3-4, 8) through satan's deception( Rev.12:9).
Like I told T8, I will tell you the same.
“”Both the Greek word “” theos “” and the English word ” god “” originates in paganism, which are idol image( Rev.13:15) titles of other nation's pagan deities, and are not the original in Hebrew.
I'm NOT going through explaining all this paganism that has been added by the copiests of the scriptures in the Greek and English translations again, so please go read all my previous posts.
It was said by YHWH through Yeremyah( Jer.) the Prophet in ( Yer.8:8) that the scriptures would be altered by the copiests and translators, and it is exactly so.”” Unquote.
Also, that People have to choose WHICH ONE to worship and serve, whether the true FATHER YHWH=Yah( John 17:11), or the ” false father ” satan the devil( John 8:44)??
Eliyah C.
Elijah, where did you learn this?
Who taught you this?
Who guided you?
How many other people believe as you do?
You know a lot about the Sciptures. Who else knows what you know?
Have you convinced anyone to stop using the word “god” or “lord”?
How do you really feel about Nick?David, I care about Nick, he just twists my words, and sometimes I think he is doing it on purpose.
David, I have spent the last 24 years of my life learning the scriptures and living in them.
David, I don't convince anyone, it takes YHWH to do that, I only point out the truth of scriptures, but yes even a few witnesses know this as others too.
To david or Eliyah,
Quote (david @ Sep. 15 2005,21:00) He's not arguing that it can be used to describe Jehovah and idols.
He's saying that the word itself is of pagan origins.
So does that make the Bible's use of the word God, evil?
Is that the point, or is the point something else?thx
I'm not saying I agree with him t8. I was just clarifying to you what he believes.
To get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions.Let me ask you something t8.
Is the Bible's use of the words LORD and GOD in place of God's name evil?
If you're trying to trick me into saying that the Bible is evil….
Apparently, the word “bible” comes from pagan origin, like most everything.You asked what the point of all this is.
If you read all of Elijah's many many many posts on the definitions and etymology of the word “god,” you will find that perhaps, PERHAPS the word “god” comes from pagan sources.
What Elijah contends, is that this is blaspemy, to connect the pagan word to the Almighty himself.
He contends that we should transliterate El or Elohim (“God” in Hebrew) and use those words which aren't tainted by pagan backgrounds. He believes that somewhere along the way, we picked up the word “god” which is has pagan roots and believes this is wrong.I personally would like to do quite a bit more research on this.
No david,
I am not trying to trick you at all. I think tricking people in order to make them stumble is a bad thing. Yes God catches the wicked in their own craftiness, in order that they reap what they sow. But I do not assume that you are wicked and “vengance is mine” says the Lord. Rather I am here to help and learn. I would like to think that I am a servant (not master) of truth and the Truth.
If the word 'Elohim' is thought to be pagan, then I guess my next question would be: “Was it used in the original texts, or was it translated from something else later on”.
If it was used in the original texts (not sure how to prove that, perhaps the Dead Sea Scrolls would be the best ference we have) then I would not have a problem with it's usage in referring to Yahweh. I assume that the original OT was Hebrew and perhaps Aramaic. If a book was Hebrew to start with and it used 'Elohim” in reference to Yahweh, then how can anyone have a problem with that, if the inspiration of that book or prophecy was from God?
If the word was indeed introduced later when copying the text/scripture, then Eliyah may have a point. If that were the case, then what was the word used in the place of 'Elohim'?
Also when Yeshua read the scriptures did the scriptures use the word 'Elohim'. If yes, then he didn't seem to have a problem with it's usage, or at least it is not recorded that he did. We (mankind) do however have access to scriptures that are older than the appearance of our messiah. So if it is wrong, then why was it not recorded in the NT or in history that it was a problem? If it is the big problem that Eliyah makes out, then surely it would have registered on the radar if you know what I mean.
When I look at my somewhat limited tools (Interlinear bible Hebrew & English and concordances), it appears that the word 'Elohim' is the original word. But as I said, 'limited tools'.
We do however need the leading of God's Spirit and a strong desire to know the truth as often the errors of some were committed such long times ago that it is easy to accept those errors as fact, on the basis that they have formed a kind of foundation with many works built on top.
Certainly I am open to challenging any of these so-called foundations or traditions to see if they are of the truth.
Hi t8,
I agree with your views. Neither am I closed you the full revelation of truth here. Since the Name was changed because of fear of Yahweh, is the insistence on the usage of the correct Name a sign of lack of respect?There are many questions here, but the words that Yeshua was happy to use should be our guide in my opinion.Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 14 2005,21:53) All through the Book of ( Gen.) is the correct original pure Hebrew titles of “” El and Elohim “” that is applied to YHWH=Yahweh, but all the ” titles ” of OTHER NATIONS( god, gott, gud, guth, theos, dios, dieu-e.t.c) apply to those other pagan nation's own deities which they worshipped, and they still do worship them today.
To Eliyah,So let me get this straight, Elohim is the correct title?
Yet the word 'Elohim' is also used in reference angels. Do you agree with that?
Psalm 97:7
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (Elohim)!Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”[& in reference to idols the word 'elohim' is also used:
Exodus 20:23
Do not make any gods (elohim) to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods (elohim) of silver or gods (elohim) of gold.and in reference to man:
Psalms 82:6
“I said, `You are “gods” (elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.'John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'So the word 'elohim' here when quoted in the NT, uses the word 'theos'. We translate the word 'theos' as 'God/god' in English.
Is it the last part that you have a problem with? Theos = God? If so, then what do you suggest we use in English for 'Theos'. Also what do you suggest we use in English for 'Elohim' if indeed it is also applied to man, angel, and idol.
Perhaps you are advocating that we just use 'elohim' in Hebrew? If so, then did the original NT that quotes the OT uses of 'elohim', actually use the word 'elohim' or did they translate them to 'theos' or an Aramaic equivalent?
If they didn't use the word 'elohim' in the original NT, then I think you argument is somewhat found wanting. But if they did, then you may have a point. If so then that leads to what you can and can't do with regards to translating scripture into different languages.
I know I have often thought about words 'Yeshua' as apposed to the Greek translation of his name. Is it right to translate, or should we transliterate? And why?
NO. No one ever said the word “elohim” was pagan.
T8, he's not saying the word Elohim or El is wrong. These Hebrew words which basically mean “Mighty One” are of course not wrong. Of course they are in the Bible in the portions that were written in Hebrew.
Elijah is saying that the English word “god” (not Elohim) is of pagan origins. Along the way, Elohim was translated to the word “god” argues Elijah.
Of course Jesus used the word Elohim when speaking hebrew.
He didn't use the English word “god,” which Elijah says is of pagan origins.I think that is clear
davidT8 brought out an interesting point:
“Perhaps you are advocating that we just use 'elohim' in Hebrew? If so, then did the original NT that quotes the OT uses of 'elohim', actually use the word 'elohim' or did they translate them to 'theos' or an Aramaic equivalent?”Yes, Elijah is advocating that we use the word Elohim instead of God. So your point is worthy of consideration.
Quote (david @ Sep. 17 2005,19:23) Elijah is saying that the English word “god” (not Elohim) is of pagan origins. Along the way, Elohim was translated to the word “god” argues Elijah.
Yes that is the question I asked after I tried to follow the logic to it's conclusion. I wanted to cover all bases so that I wasn't missing anything.I asked, if 'elohim' is OK, then why does the NT use the word 'theos' when quoting 'elohim'. Is this where the so-called error started? I also asked 'what was the word used in the NT for 'elohim'? Was it 'elohim'? If not then Eliyah's argument seems inadequate. If yes, then he may have a point.
Again, was 'elohim' used in the NT when quoting scripture that used the word 'elohim' in the OT?
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