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Hi H,
You told us what your litmus test was
“”.Anyway, I use this scripture, John 3:3 thru 7 as a litmus test to see how far one is in their spiritual growth or to see of they are of God. I want to know what you all think? Please do not think I am trying to be anything more than what I am, and that is a sinner, for the only good in me comes by my yielding to the will of Jesus. Only when my cup of self will is empty can I truly be filled with the will of Christ.”Is this the one or are there several litmus tests?
If you understood that the water Jesus spoke of was physical birth, which it plainly says, you would have passed the test Nick. But instead, you try to add to the Word of God.
It says beyond all doubt that Jesus was talking of physical birth when he said a man must be born of water and of Spirit. For the very next verse Jesus say, That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.''
It is not difficult to understand, but if you only understand in part, you will only know in part. And the interpretation you bring to this is the same interpretation that is used by the doctrines of the world.
Hi H,
Jn 3
“1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. “
So natural birth plays no part in our redemption but we must be born again to even see what salvation is all about.
“4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “
So here Jesus speaks of entry into the kingdom. He has already said natural birth is irrelevant so now we must understand he is speaking of two baptisms, water and the Spirit following faith and repentance. This is where we are clothed with Christ and made fit for the wedding feast.
“6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
Again natural birth produces only flesh enlivened by our own spirit unto death so is not relevant. It is Spiritual rebirth by the Spirit of God that is the fountain leaping up to eternal life we need.
“7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
When we are led by the Spirit it is according to that spirit so is not always and cannot be completely understood at the time.
Nicodemus was a leader of Israel. Yet, he did not know what it meant to be born again. He thought Jesus meant to be born twice in the flesh. Jesus meant to be born twice in the spirit. Jesus told him, that physical birth was part of it, but also spiritual birth. A man must be born of water and of spirit. Jesus was disappointed that a leader of Israel did not understand the spiritual law, but only the physical law. And that is why they did not recognize their own messiah. For sometime in their history, they went from being a spiritual people, to a physical people. They lost the ability to discern what was of God and what was not.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Hi H,
Do you know of any men who have not been through physical birth yet
that your reasoning would relate to?Every man that is born into this world is born of water. This is the first birth. Yet, if the man is not born again in the spirit, he will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
As I said, Nicodemus could not understand anything other than that of the physical. Jesus tried to make him understand that there was more then just that of the physical. That is why he told him a man must be born of water and of spirit. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
What do you think Jesus means when he says that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit?
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 17 2006,23:27) Every man that is born into this world is born of water. This is the first birth. Yet, if the man is not born again in the spirit, he will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
Hi H,
So you say this verse“5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “
means that everyone must be born
[excuse me anyone out there not been born yet?}
and reborn.
He is saying all man are flesh, but to enter into the kingdom of God, they must be born again in the spirit.
Why do you insist on adding to the word of God?
Why can't you relate that which is born of the flesh is flesh with a man must be born of water? They are one in the same.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Just as it says Nick.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Hi H,
So to paraphrase your theory.
Unless a man is born naturally and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom.
I thought we had all already been born naturally so that part of the verse has become meaningless???Nicodemus did not understand the spiritual. So Jesus tried to help him understand that there was not just physical, but spiritual. Somewhere, because the hardness of their hearts, Israel lost the ability to understand that which was spiritual. All they understood was the physical. That is why when Jesus told Nicodemus that a man must be born again, Nicodemus thought Jesus referred to being born twice in the flesh when Jesus was referring to being born twice in the spirit. For it is impossible for men to be born twice in the flesh.
So Jesus told Nicodemus a man must be born not just of water, or the flesh, but he must be born of the spirit to enter the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
As I said before, if Israel would have not lost the ability to understand that which was spiritual, they would have know the time of the visitation of their messiah. Yet, they did not. And to make matters worse, not only did they not understand the spiritual law, they did not understand the phyical law. And it was their falling away or abuse in this area that led to them not understanding or knowing that which was spiritual in nature.
Proof of there converstation and that Jesus was trying to explain that which was spiritual to these who knew only physical and did not even get the physical part of the law right are in these verses.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Hi H,
So to paraphrase your theory.
Unless a man is born naturally and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom.
I thought we had all already been born naturally so that part of the verse has become meaningless???Nick, this scripture is plain as the nose on the face to that of a man who is looking through spiritual eyes. But to a man who is looking with physical eyes, he sees only the things of the flesh and it is for this reason you cannot see. Your indoctrination has blinded you or hardened your heart or you just have not been saved or all the above. What it comes down to is if you had spiritual eyes, you would recognize the things of the spirit. If you sought the things of God with an earnest heart, he would reveal himself to you in his Word. Yet, as much time I have spent in trying to help you understand this, I have sinned. For it says in the scriptures to not cast the pearl before swine and on this I have sinned. I have wasted too much time with you and will not waste anymore on this subject with you, for the truth is not in you.
I have done all I could possibly do to bring you to God. Nothing I have said or done has persuaded you. You are grounded in the doctrine of Nick and in such, you will be laid to rest. You refuse the Word of God for that which is pleasing in your own heart and because of this, your heart has become hardened. The world is lulled into believing in peace and safty and that God is merely a God of love and compassion. Yet, to those who are against him, they will face his wrath. They will see the awesome strength of the great and terrible God who will destroy them with the brightness of his coming.
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