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Hi Princess
Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 13 2009,22:12) If I heard of Yahweh first, then I would come to know His Son, if I heard of Yeshua first, then I would come to know His Father.
You have a very shallow understanding of who Jesus is!You have the cart before the horse!
No man can know the Father without the Son!
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and “no one knows the Father except the Son and THOSE TO WHOM THE SON CHOOSES TO REVEAL HIM. Matt 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and “no one knows who the Father is except the Son and THOSE TO WHOM THE SON CHOOSES TO REVEAL HIM.” Luke 10:22
He who has the Son, has the Father!
No one who denies the Son has the Father; “whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1 John 2:23
Another way of saying that is “whoever acknowledges the Son has (God) also”.
Jesus also said…
…I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6Now put on you “thinker” Princess and see what that means.
Jesus is claiming that he stands between you and God! Now according to the Monotheistic Hebrew and the Torah law that would be Idolatry and infact blasphemy! This is why they crucified him you know!
That means if he is not God in the flesh then you commit Idolatry by going to God through him, and also if your view of Jesus who is “the image of the invisible God” or “the visible image of God” is less than God then you have a false image of who God is and therefore break the commandment “thou shalt have no graven image before me”. You cannot even see the Father without seeing Jesus my friend.
Jesus said “I and my Father are one”. John 10:30
This is why they took up stones to kill him, because he was making himself equal to the Father!
Give that a “Think”, eh?
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 09 2009,05:29) To All,
I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of you anti-trinitarians agree that we should love Jesus in this way? And how can you fault trinitarians if you yourself do love Jesus in this way? If you love Jesus as much as you love God then you have broken the second comandment even though you don't call Him God. So you are no better than the trinitarian who you think is an idolater.For those of you who believe we should love Jesus less than God how do you decide how much or how little? Are we each permitted to decide this for ourselves? I think not.
thinker
Hi JackExactly!
Paul counted all things but dung that he may win Christ! Phil 3:8
Many places Paul says that he is a “Bondslave” to Jesus.
He said he was a prisoner of Jesus. In other words he was compelled to lay his life down for him.
Jesus said…
Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, “but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it“. Mk 8:34, 35
John tells us no greater love is this “that a man lay down his life for his friends” John 15:13
The very fact that this kind of devotion is demanded of Jesus as a requirement to follow him is proof that he is either God or a lunatic!
This kind of devotion even to death is to be given to no mere man who gives such an order or demand other than God.
Anti-trintarians do not serve the same Jesus we do. For there view of him is simply another anointed puppet on a string!
They just use his name like some magic formula to attempt to get to God, not realizing they are not going to the Father without coming to Jesus first!
They say, excuse me Jesus, get out of the way, I am going to the Father!
But our fellowship is with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit! For they are One!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,02:29) Hi WJ,
God was in him.
Was he God as well?
NHAnd Jesus was in the Father, so does that mean the Father is not God?
But you know this and do not believe it!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Certainly they are united since the Jordan in everything but being.
One in the Father in will and in Spirit.
He is at the right hand of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,05:18) Hi WJ,
You should not fool with scripture.
Your offering of two as God is polytheism is it not?
NHGod is three in one, who has “One” name by which we are all saved!
Matt 28:19
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,05:18) Hi WJ,
You should not fool with scripture.
Your offering of two as God is polytheism is it not?
NHGod is three in one, who has “One” name by which we are all saved!
Matt 28:19
WJ
God is 3 what's?WorshippingJesus said:
Quote Jesus said… Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, “but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it”. Mk 8:34, 35
John tells us no greater love is this “that a man lay down his life for his friends” John 15:13
The very fact that this kind of devotion is demanded of Jesus as a requirement to follow him is proof that he is either God or a lunatic!
Bang boom!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,21:18) Hi WJ,
You should not fool with scripture.
Your offering of two as God is polytheism is it not?
The Son of God is a false God?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,07:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,21:18) Hi WJ,
You should not fool with scripture.
Your offering of two as God is polytheism is it not?
The Son of God is a false God?thinker
The son of God is what number of gods? The first or second?You are to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
Jesus just as much or equally because he is the express image of The Father.
If you honor the son you honor The Father…if you were to love anything else as much as Jesus or The Father, I could see the sin in that.
But loving Jesus as you do The Father wouldn't mean any harm seeing has how everything Jesus is and who he is…is a product of The Father.
The Fathers work was completed in him, and The Father's love for us was displayed in him.
So if we express our love for Jesus, the more we love him, directly shows our love for The Father and what he's done in Jesus.
Think about this TT, if you love Jesus more than anything in the world…why would you?
For what he did and who he is.
Well if you love him for that, aren't you abiding by what The Father intended all along.
It sounds very christian to love christ, and the amount you love him is immediately in respect to The Father…in which you should probably love more for making it so.
——————————————————-
Love God #1
Jesus #2
Mankind as yourself.The amount you love Jesus would be equal to The Amount you love The Father, while the father should get a little extra.
It would be idolatry to love the messenger more than the person who sent him don't you think?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2009,15:26) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,07:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,21:18) Hi WJ,
You should not fool with scripture.
Your offering of two as God is polytheism is it not?
The Son of God is a false God?thinker
The son of God is what number of gods? The first or second?
The Son of God is the emanation of God's glory. In this sense there is no first or second. In terms of the implementation of the covenant of redemption the Son assumed second place. I say “assumed” in the past tense because He has been exalted and is now Himself “first.”Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,04:04) You are to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Jesus just as much or equally because he is the express image of The Father.
If you honor the son you honor The Father…if you were to love anything else as much as Jesus or The Father, I could see the sin in that.
But loving Jesus as you do The Father wouldn't mean any harm seeing has how everything Jesus is and who he is…is a product of The Father.
The Fathers work was completed in him, and The Father's love for us was displayed in him.
So if we express our love for Jesus, the more we love him, directly shows our love for The Father and what he's done in Jesus.
Think about this TT, if you love Jesus more than anything in the world…why would you?
For what he did and who he is.
Well if you love him for that, aren't you abiding by what The Father intended all along.
It sounds very christian to love christ, and the amount you love him is immediately in respect to The Father…in which you should probably love more for making it so.
——————————————————-
Love God #1
Jesus #2
Mankind as yourself.The amount you love Jesus would be equal to The Amount you love The Father, while the father should get a little extra.
It would be idolatry to love the messenger more than the person who sent him don't you think?
RM,
You say that we should probably love the Father more. Tell us how to do this. Jesus demanded that we love Him with all our being and possessions. He said that if we love Him we must deny EVERYTHING for His sake. How can anyone love the Father more? Everything is everything.thinker
So TT, do you claim Jesus said love him more than everything including The Father in whom he said he does his will?
Does that make sense?
What you are saying Jesus said is this…
Jesus: “I do not do my will, but the will of my Father, yet I want you to love me more than EVERYTHING including my Father”
lol, that's ludacris.
The verse didn't say everything, the verse said love me more than your father, mother, wife, kids…
It didn't say YHWH.
You are to love Jesus more than the world and yourself.
But you are to love YHWH more than Jesus.
That was Jesus' first and greatest commandment.
You can't argue with scripture.
It also doesn't say, love your neighbor more than Jesus…It says love your neighbor as you do yourself…but clearly you are to love Jesus more than yourself.
Rokkaman said:
Quote So TT, do you claim Jesus said love him more than everything including The Father in whom he said he does his will?
Read this whole thread again. I have repeatedly said that we are required to love Jesus AS we love God and not more than God. We are required to love Jesus with everything. How can we love the Father more than we love Jesus? Everything is everything.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 16 2009,06:49) Rokkaman said: Quote So TT, do you claim Jesus said love him more than everything including The Father in whom he said he does his will?
Read this whole thread again. I have repeatedly said that we are required to love Jesus AS we love God and not more than God. We are required to love Jesus with everything. How can we love the Father more than we love Jesus? Everything is everything.thinker
What passage did you find that we are to love Jesus with everything?Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,04:23) It also doesn't say, love your neighbor more than Jesus…It says love your neighbor as you do yourself…but clearly you are to love Jesus more than yourself.
Loving Jesus more than yourself does not mean to love Jesus more than your neighbor because in that sense neighbor is someone who loves to do what is right and therefore neighbor may have more value than a negligent family. Jesus said as you do to the least of these you have done also to me so therefore Jesus does not raise himself above any believer who does what is right, he also said that a servant is not greater than his master and yet Jesus calls himself a servant and a friend to those who believe.Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,06:53) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 16 2009,06:49) Rokkaman said: Quote So TT, do you claim Jesus said love him more than everything including The Father in whom he said he does his will?
Read this whole thread again. I have repeatedly said that we are required to love Jesus AS we love God and not more than God. We are required to love Jesus with everything. How can we love the Father more than we love Jesus? Everything is everything.thinker
What passage did you find that we are to love Jesus with everything?
Read the thread again. WJ and I have already posted the relevant scriptures.thinker
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