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To All,
I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of you anti-trinitarians agree that we should love Jesus in this way? And how can you fault trinitarians if you yourself do love Jesus in this way? If you love Jesus as much as you love God then you have broken the second comandment even though you don't call Him God. So you are no better than the trinitarian who you think is an idolater.For those of you who believe we should love Jesus less than God how do you decide how much or how little? Are we each permitted to decide this for ourselves? I think not.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 09 2009,21:29) To All,
I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of you anti-trinitarians agree that we should love Jesus in this way? And how can you fault trinitarians if you yourself do love Jesus in this way? If you love Jesus as much as you love God then you have broken the second comandment even though you don't call Him God. So you are no better than the trinitarian who you think is an idolater.For those of you who believe we should love Jesus less than God how do you decide how much or how little? Are we each permitted to decide this for ourselves? I think not.
thinker
Now, I'll grant I know little enough about love, but your question raises another question.Suppose you have three children, all different individuals, all yours (genetically). Which do you love the most? And do you love God more than them?
As for idols, seems to me you can make one out of a book as easily as a person.
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 09 2009,21:29) To All,
I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of you anti-trinitarians agree that we should love Jesus in this way? And how can you fault trinitarians if you yourself do love Jesus in this way? If you love Jesus as much as you love God then you have broken the second comandment even though you don't call Him God. So you are no better than the trinitarian who you think is an idolater.For those of you who believe we should love Jesus less than God how do you decide how much or how little? Are we each permitted to decide this for ourselves? I think not.
thinker
Hi thethinker:Aren't you confusing “love” and “worship”, the scriptures states:
Quote Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Quote 1Jo 4:20 ¶ If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.Jesus gave his life for me that I might be reconciled to God, and so, I love him with all my heart, and I show this by obeying his commandments, which I have shown you by the scriptures that he said they were not his sayings but those of God who sent him.
Jesus is our brother and His God and Father is my God and my Father.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. And regarding worship, Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.Quote Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.Love in Christ,
Martythinker
(I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.)
That is not what Jesus said, but he did say, “he who loves father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me”.
Georg
Quote (georg @ Oct. 10 2009,18:47) thinker (I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.)
That is not what Jesus said, but he did say, “he who loves father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me”.
Georg
God is our Father and Christ is our Husband. Do you love your father more than your husband? Furthermore, in the old testament Israel's Husband was God. The same is true in the new testament.thinker
Quote (georg @ Oct. 10 2009,18:47) thinker (I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.)
That is not what Jesus said, but he did say, “he who loves father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me”.
Georg
Explain how much less we are to love Jesus and how you come to your conclusion.thinker
DUPLICATE:
Quote (georg @ Oct. 10 2009,18:47) thinker (I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.)
That is not what Jesus said, but he did say, “he who loves father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me”.
Georg
God is our Father and Christ is our Husband. Do you love your father more than your husband? Furthermore, in the old testament Israel's Husband was God. The same is true in the new testament.thinker
Hi TT,
So Jesus told us how we should love his God.
Is his God your god or have you a new one that includes Jesus?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 11 2009,15:53) Hi TT,
So Jesus told us how we should love his God.
Is his God your god or have you a new one that includes Jesus?
If we don't love Jesus more than all others then we are not worthy of Him.Matthew 10:37-39 (New King James Version)
Quote 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. It is clear that Jesus demands for Himself the love and devotion that is given to God. He said that we are to lose our own lives for HIS sake.
thinker
Thinker, yes you must present scriptures and preach like this to establish your god, this is well known and seen many times over in your post.
Christ has commanded us, he makes no demands.
How you represent Christ; thinker, is like an ungrateful child, demanding that everyone love him more than Christ's Father and my Father.
When it is clearly written in Matthew:
`Teacher, which is the great command in the Law?'
Christ said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding this is a first and great command;Princess said:
Quote Christ has commanded us, he makes no demands.
How can He command us without making demands of us?
Princess:
Quote How you represent Christ; thinker, is like an ungrateful child, demanding that everyone love him more than Christ's Father and my Father.
Show where I said he should be loved more than the Father. I said He should be love AS we love God.Princess:
Quote When it is clearly written in Matthew: `Teacher, which is the great command in the Law?'
Christ said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding this is a first and great command;
According to the new covenant rule this is done by loving Christ. One cannot obey the first commandment to love God without loving Christ.Quote He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” THE FATHER DOES NOT LOVE YOU IF YOU DON'T LOVE JESUS!
thinker
i know thinker, out with the old in with the new.
de·mand (d-mnd)
v. de·mand·ed, de·mand·ing, de·mands
v.tr.
1. To ask for urgently or peremptorily:
2. To claim as just or due:
3. To ask to be informed of:
4. To require as useful, just, proper, or necessary;com·mand (k-mnd)
v. com·mand·ed, com·mand·ing, com·mands
v.tr.
1. To direct with authority; give orders to.
2. To have control or authority over; rule:
3. To have at one's disposal:
4. To deserve and receive as due; exact:
5.
a. To exercise dominating, authoritative influence over:
b. To dominate by physical position; overlook:Christ will not open the door for you, if you do not love the Father as commanded.
I am sure this is hard for you to understand due to what you believe.
If I heard of Yahweh first, then I would come to know His Son, if I heard of Yeshua first, then I would come to know His Father.
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 09 2009,02:29) To All,
I believe we should love Jesus the same as we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of you anti-trinitarians agree that we should love Jesus in this way? And how can you fault trinitarians if you yourself do love Jesus in this way? If you love Jesus as much as you love God then you have broken the second comandment even though you don't call Him God. So you are no better than the trinitarian who you think is an idolater.For those of you who believe we should love Jesus less than God how do you decide how much or how little? Are we each permitted to decide this for ourselves? I think not.
thinker
Are you Pedro Primavera?Princess of the King said:
Quote To claim as just or due: Christ said that he who does not love Him more than his family is not worthy of Him. Jesus was claiming that love was justly due Him.
Therefore, He demanded our love.
thinker
thinker, your cap is off
it reads to claim what is due
claim (klm)
tr.v. claimed, claim·ing, claims
1. To demand, ask for, or take as one's own or one's due:
2. To take in a violent manner as if by right: .
3. To state to be true, especially when open to question; assert or maintain:
4. To deserve or call for; requireshow me in the greek if needed, i cannot understand your thinking.
Princess said:
Quote To demand, ask for, or take as one's own or one's due: Matthew 10:37-39:
Quote 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. and,
John 14:21:
Quote He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” What about these statements do you not understand?
thinker
oh you think Christ demands you to do this, i take it he is showing us how to correctly love him.
for if you never knew what love was, how would you learn?
If you should love your neighbor as you love yourself and the second command is like the first then it shows that Loving Jesus or anyone else is equivalent to loving God so therefore loving God with all your heart, soul and mind is to be filled with a unifying Love
Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 14 2009,15:40) oh you think Christ demands you to do this, i take it he is showing us how to correctly love him. for if you never knew what love was, how would you learn?
The only way to “correctly” love Jesus is with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength” as we love God.Luke 14:25-27:
Quote Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
To “correctly” love Jesus is to deny everything for His sake. This is to love Him as we love God. Explain how our love for God could be greater.Correctly loving God: We deny everything
Correctly loving Jesus: We deny everything
If you deny everything for Jesus' sake then you love Him as you love God even though you do not confess Jesus as God. So you cannot accuse trinitarians of idolatry because you are also an idolater in your actions. For the second commandment is about your actions.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,16:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 14 2009,15:40) oh you think Christ demands you to do this, i take it he is showing us how to correctly love him. for if you never knew what love was, how would you learn?
The only way to “correctly” love Jesus is with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength” as we love God.Luke 14:25-27:
Quote Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
To “correctly” love Jesus is to deny everything for His sake. This is to love Him as we love God. Explain how our love for God could be greater.Correctly loving God: We deny everything
Correctly loving Jesus: We deny everything
If you deny everything for Jesus' sake then you love Him as you love God even though you do not confess Jesus as God. So you cannot accuse trinitarians of idolatry because you are also an idolater in your actions. For the second commandment is about your actions.
thinker
Jesus does not say love him with all your heart, soul and mind he instructs that kind of love belongs to God alone meaning in your case The Father alone. Jesus says that The Only True God is The Father and then he says to love God with all your heart, soul and mind and in doing so if you Love God you will love the one he sent not as God but as the beloved of God.
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