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Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,23:57) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 14 2012,05:42) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,13:42) Quote The Andromeda Galaxy will collide with the Milky Way Galaxy in 4 billion years from now. From our point of view that is purely academic knowledge because it is unlikely there will be much life left on earth past 1.4 billion years from now due to the increasing luminosity of the sun. this is only true if their men calculation are right ;but what puzzles me is that some scientist says that everything in the universe is expanding this mean everything is flying away of each other ,
this would contradict that collision theory in my view
A fair point. The answer is that the Andromeda Galaxy is relatively close to us and moving through space towards us, just as other galaxies close to us are moving through space away from us.Hubble's Law, which is what you might be thinking of, isn't really talking about galaxies moving through space. Hubble's Law says that the further away a galaxy is the faster it is moving away from you, but the catch is that this is not movement through space but apparent movement because space itself is expanding.
Not easy I know, but can you see how there are two mechanisms that give the impression that a galaxy is moving? Andromeda is close, and is actually moving through space towards us. Because it is close, it doesn't appear to be moving away from us very fast at all due to space expansion, and so the actual movement through space towards us is the much faster thing.
Stuart
stuso the speed in space is not a constant like they use to believe
it seems that fatality is the religion of the scientist
if their calculation are right ,
if their understanding is full on it .
if what they understand is true ,
so only fatality is the forecast,
just like to know that if you jump in the deep cool water you drown ( if no one was there to help you out )many IF's
Maybe you can get back to us when you have worked out how it goes.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 16 2012,04:15) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,23:57) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 14 2012,05:42) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,13:42) Quote The Andromeda Galaxy will collide with the Milky Way Galaxy in 4 billion years from now. From our point of view that is purely academic knowledge because it is unlikely there will be much life left on earth past 1.4 billion years from now due to the increasing luminosity of the sun. this is only true if their men calculation are right ;but what puzzles me is that some scientist says that everything in the universe is expanding this mean everything is flying away of each other ,
this would contradict that collision theory in my view
A fair point. The answer is that the Andromeda Galaxy is relatively close to us and moving through space towards us, just as other galaxies close to us are moving through space away from us.Hubble's Law, which is what you might be thinking of, isn't really talking about galaxies moving through space. Hubble's Law says that the further away a galaxy is the faster it is moving away from you, but the catch is that this is not movement through space but apparent movement because space itself is expanding.
Not easy I know, but can you see how there are two mechanisms that give the impression that a galaxy is moving? Andromeda is close, and is actually moving through space towards us. Because it is close, it doesn't appear to be moving away from us very fast at all due to space expansion, and so the actual movement through space towards us is the much faster thing.
Stuart
stuso the speed in space is not a constant like they use to believe
it seems that fatality is the religion of the scientist
if their calculation are right ,
if their understanding is full on it .
if what they understand is true ,
so only fatality is the forecast,
just like to know that if you jump in the deep cool water you drown ( if no one was there to help you out )many IF's
Maybe you can get back to us when you have worked out how it goes.Stuart
STUQuote Maybe you can get back to us when you have worked out how it goes. Stuart
but I started from the back but that also you have rejected,
so you have seen the front and the back ,IT IS YOURS TO PICK NOW ,WITCH ONE YOU WANT.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,23:57) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 14 2012,05:42) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,13:42) Quote The Andromeda Galaxy will collide with the Milky Way Galaxy in 4 billion years from now. From our point of view that is purely academic knowledge because it is unlikely there will be much life left on earth past 1.4 billion years from now due to the increasing luminosity of the sun. this is only true if their men calculation are right ;but what puzzles me is that some scientist says that everything in the universe is expanding this mean everything is flying away of each other ,
this would contradict that collision theory in my view
A fair point. The answer is that the Andromeda Galaxy is relatively close to us and moving through space towards us, just as other galaxies close to us are moving through space away from us.Hubble's Law, which is what you might be thinking of, isn't really talking about galaxies moving through space. Hubble's Law says that the further away a galaxy is the faster it is moving away from you, but the catch is that this is not movement through space but apparent movement because space itself is expanding.
Not easy I know, but can you see how there are two mechanisms that give the impression that a galaxy is moving? Andromeda is close, and is actually moving through space towards us. Because it is close, it doesn't appear to be moving away from us very fast at all due to space expansion, and so the actual movement through space towards us is the much faster thing.
Stuart
stuso the speed in space is not a constant like they use to believe
it seems that fatality is the religion of the scientist
if their calculation are right ,
if their understanding is full on it .
if what they understand is true ,
so only fatality is the forecast,
just like to know that if you jump in the deep cool water you drown ( if no one was there to help you out )many IF's
One way people think of it that helps understanding is to think of the surface of a ballon as representing space. (Just the surface of the balloon). The balloon has many tiny dots on it representing stars and galaxies. As the ballon is blown bigger, the space between points expands, just as space itself is expanding. This doesn't mean that the dots cants still be carrying out their own motions because of gravity, crashing into each other and such.This comparison is also interesting in that space is curved, because of gravity. Do not try to visualize it, your brain will explode. But, imagining that space was 2 dimensional, it would be like the surface of a balloon. If you were a person on one of those tiny dots on the balloon, space would appear straight, because, you can't measure very far. And if you had a virtually infinite amount of time, and travelled on a light beam around that balloon (universe) you would end up where you started, despite traveling as straight as can possibly be measured.
Is there anyone else that thinks this is insanely bizarre?
That explains why I put on a couple of kilos recently. And unfortunately will be harder to get rid of coz the balloon just keeps getting bigger.
It could also be argued with the Law of Gravity that an even bigger thing than the universe is the creating the force of attraction for the expanding universe.
Also an interesting point. The further out we look the faster the universe is expanding. This means that the parts of the universe that are travelling faster than light if that is the case, have dropped of our radar, leading to the possibility that the universe is much bigger than the known universe. The known universe is that which is expanding less than the speed of light, and hence we can still observe it.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 24 2012,20:19) It could also be argued with the Law of Gravity that an even bigger thing than the universe is the creating the force of attraction for the expanding universe.
What do you mean by bigger?Stuart
Law of attraction Stu.
Larger objects move smaller things toward them, even stretching smaller things so that they increase in size.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2012,12:19) Law of attraction Stu. Larger objects move smaller things toward them, even stretching smaller things so that they increase in size.
I think you will find that you mean more massive and less massive objects, and indeed it is not just the less massive objects being attracted.But you haven't answered my question, you have just shifted it to one about what you mean by an increase in size. It is very important that you can give a cogent answer to this, otherwise your claim about a cause of the expansion of the universe is meaningless.
Of course that would be nothing new.
Stuart
Quote It is very important that you can give a cogent answer to this,
But don't you need to be intelligent or wise to hear a cogent answer?“The fool has said there is no God”
And let's face it, it is a true saying. You delete the God option and go for the eternal non-conscious option or the nothing option. God is deleted because you don't like the idea of God. Not very smart is it.
Anway, for the sake of answering your question.
The universe is expanding Stu.
Scientists think it is a combination of dark energy and dark matter that makes up the missing matter that is required for the increasing expansion.But it could also be that the universe is not all that is. That it is part of something greater. So just as galaxies can exert their gravitational influence on each other, maybe universes can too. Or perhaps in higher dimensions there are things that we cannot see that are of greater mass.
Its all very open at the moment because we can only see that which is on our radar screen so to speak. But there is much more beyond our limited view of the spectrum and time and space. So to think all the answers just happen to be in our limited view is also foolish.
Of course I am open to dark energy being real and not just hypothetical. It doesn't go against anything I believe at least.
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 27 2012,16:51) I think you will find that you mean more massive and less massive objects, and indeed it is not just the less massive objects being attracted.
Or perhaps you assume too much.Why does large and small mean size to you in all situations. It could also be larger mass or smaller mass for all know. Or larger influence and smaller influence.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,21:59) Quote It is very important that you can give a cogent answer to this,
But don't you need to be intelligent or wise to hear a cogent answer?“The fool has said there is no God”
And let's face it, it is a true saying. You delete the God option and go for the eternal non-conscious option or the nothing option. God is deleted because you don't like the idea of God. Not very smart is it.
Anway, for the sake of answering your question.
The universe is expanding Stu.
Scientists think it is a combination of dark energy and dark matter that makes up the missing matter that is required for the increasing expansion.But it could also be that the universe is not all that is. That it is part of something greater. So just as galaxies can exert their gravitational influence on each other, maybe universes can too. Or perhaps in higher dimensions there are things that we cannot see that are of greater mass.
Its all very open at the moment because we can only see that which is on our radar screen so to speak. But there is much more beyond our limited view of the spectrum and time and space. So to think all the answers just happen to be in our limited view is also foolish.
Of course I am open to dark energy being real and not just hypothetical. It doesn't go against anything I believe at least.
So, in other words, you've got no idea.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,22:07) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 27 2012,16:51) I think you will find that you mean more massive and less massive objects, and indeed it is not just the less massive objects being attracted.
Or perhaps you assume too much.Why does large and small mean size to you in all situations. It could also be larger mass or smaller mass for all know. Or larger influence and smaller influence.
I was just talking about Newton's Laws.You remember Isaac Newton, the genius physicist, potty alchemist and idiot religious zealot. You go on about him often enough.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:44) So, in other words, you've got no idea. Stuart
Where exactly did I say I knew the answer to that?Go back and you will see that I said that some say that the expansion could be the result of something outside our known universe.
I just made the point that no one knows for sure what is causing this increased expansion.
Please pay attention it saves having to make boring explanations. It saves time. Were you the guy who was always looking out the window in Science class and getting told to pay attention?
Stu, remember some time ago I asked you if you could find another Atheist, perhaps 8 times your intelligence to come here for a debate.
Where is he?
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:45) I was just talking about Newton's Laws. You remember Isaac Newton, the genius physicist, potty alchemist and idiot religious zealot. You go on about him often enough.
Stuart
Oh that guy. The greatest physicist of all time who happens to be an idiot.And he is an idiot because he believed in God. And he believed that a fool denies the existence of God.
I guess a fool would think others were foolish for not believing his foolish thinking that there was no God. All part of foolishness I suppose.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,10:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:44) So, in other words, you've got no idea. Stuart
Where exactly did I say I knew the answer to that?Go back and you will see that I said that some say that the expansion could be the result of something outside our known universe.
I just made the point that no one knows for sure what is causing this increased expansion.
Please pay attention it saves having to make boring explanations. It saves time. Were you the guy who was always looking out the window in Science class and getting told to pay attention?
You said there was something bigger. I asked you what you meant by bigger, and now you can't tell me. You used the word and now you are dodging again.That remark about intelligent atheists? We don't need any atheists more intelligent than me to ask you to show a bit of basic honesty.
Now, can you answer the question? What do you mean by bigger in the specific context of the sentence you used that word in on the previous page?
Stuart
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