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Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,12:46) Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2012,20:26) I suppose they would say: “why does there have to be a 'why'”? They would say, “'why' does God exist”?
Everything has an explanation. Why is discovery process for the explanation. And why does God exist, because the evidence leads us to that conclusion.The fact that we are alive, intelligent, and have a source, leads us to the source having the attributes that the creation possesses.
I was not saying; why do we know god exists. I said they would say: why does god exist?“A witty saying proves nothing.” – Voltaire (1694-1778)
Eternity is a long time, especially toward the end.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,18:57) I was not saying; why do we know god exists. I said they would say: why does god exist?
I knew God existed because he communicated with me at a time of my life when I was an Atheist, but I was open to the possibility of his existence and prayed to him just in case he was real. He showed me he was real because I was open enough to let him work in my life. I realised later that the universe itself demanded a creator. I had never thought of that before as an Atheist because my mind was made up and no religion would change that.Hence my post. My testimony convinces me that God exists. But my testimony is not good enough for most Atheists. It is proof to me and only a witness to them, but not proof. They need to get their own proof just as I did. For now, a logical deductive and clear process as to why there is a God could speak to some of them who are open enough.
The ones that ignore the obvious evidence that there is a God then do not deserve to know about this God if they purposefully turn a blind eye. Their decision and there loss.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,19:04) “A witty saying proves nothing.” – Voltaire (1694-1778) Eternity is a long time, especially toward the end.
He he. Let's apply that logic to Voltaire's own witty saying.
Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2012,20:26) I suppose they would say: “why does there have to be a 'why'”?
Ironically, that question is a why question.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 23 2012,10:46) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,18:57) I was not saying; why do we know god exists. I said they would say: why does god exist?
I knew God existed because he communicated with me at a time of my life when I was an Atheist, but I was open to the possibility of his existence and prayed to him just in case he was real. He showed me he was real because I was open enough to let him work in my life. I realised later that the universe itself demanded a creator. I had never thought of that before as an Atheist because my mind was made up and no religion would change that.Hence my post. My testimony convinces me that God exists. But my testimony is not good enough for most Atheists. It is proof to me and only a witness to them, but not proof. They need to get their own proof just as I did. For now, a logical deductive and clear process as to why there is a God could speak to some of them who are open enough.
The ones that ignore the obvious evidence that there is a God then do not deserve to know about this God if they purposefully turn a blind eye. Their decision and there loss.
Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind. It's not even really evidence.Yet, iirritatingly, t is the most convincing form of “evidence” for the one that “experiences” the “feeling” or remembers what they believe they saw.
My brother believes he saw a flying saucer. So, he believes. Sure, there are 100 more likely possibilities, but, he experienced what he experienced, and he reshaped memories around it. And it's hard to argue with what someone believes they feel.
People really don't understand math. A person wins the lottery and believes it is a miracle, because the chances of them winning were so low.
Think of is scenario: a certain group are considered to have divine backing because they can tell many stories where a person was at home praying, (for comfort, or to understand bible) and miraculously, guess who knocks on their door? It must have been the angels that directed them to call on that exact door at that exact time. Right? “Feels” convincing, until we consider the math. People pray a lot. This group knocks on a lot of doors. If this group knocks on 20 million doors in one day, they should have at least hundreds of these stories every day.
We all like to focus on the hits and disregard the misses. And for those people whose entire life have had many “hits”, or perhaps had one thing be the big “hit,” they have this tendency to believe.
How many Roman Catholics have had a similar experience to yours T8? How many baptists? How many trinity rains have had similar experiences?
A person can see a magic trick first hand and believe that it is real. Since they saw it with their own eyes, why wouldn't they believe?
We really can trust our own EXPERIENCES. And our MEMORY is horrible. People restructure memories constantly. Experiments have been done that are mind blowing, almost unbelievable.
Because human experience and human perception are so horrible, and because people are biased and have a tendency to want to believe, we really have to rely, not on anecdotal self experiences, but rather, solid evidence as our primary belief system.
You say you didn't want to believe and were an atheist.
Well, you most likely didn't want to believe. And then you did. There are about a million JW who would say they absolutely didn't want to be a witness, and didn't want to belong to that group. (It's used as evidence, just as you use it). And then, after time, they change their mind.I have studied every form of deception since I was 7. People deceiving themselves isn't a new thing. Which is why we must be careful.
“It is proof to me.” That's the problem. If you begin with a feeling you have, that you consider proof, the tendency is to find other proof to back up that idea or feeling. Ed has all kinds of numerical proof to prove whatever he wants to prove. It's proof for him. At least eds proof can be studied and analyzed. If someone says they saw Jesus or Jesus spoke to them or they had a vision….well, people have visions about all kinds of things all the time…and they usually concern what that person is thinking about or interested in. Then, the mind tries to make sense of it, restructures it, and eventually re-remembers it differently, in a way that fits in with what they want to believe, at that particular moment.
“a logical deductive and clear process as to why there is a God could speak to some of them who are open enough”
I think we should begin with logic, so that we are not later biased, and looking to bend logic to meat our beliefs.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 23 2012,05:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2012,20:26) I suppose they would say: “why does there have to be a 'why'”?
Ironically, that question is a why question.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 23 2012,10:46) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,18:57) I was not saying; why do we know god exists. I said they would say: why does god exist?
I knew God existed because he communicated with me at a time of my life when I was an Atheist, but I was open to the possibility of his existence and prayed to him just in case he was real. He showed me he was real because I was open enough to let him work in my life. I realised later that the universe itself demanded a creator. I had never thought of that before as an Atheist because my mind was made up and no religion would change that.Hence my post. My testimony convinces me that God exists. But my testimony is not good enough for most Atheists. It is proof to me and only a witness to them, but not proof. They need to get their own proof just as I did. For now, a logical deductive and clear process as to why there is a God could speak to some of them who are open enough.
The ones that ignore the obvious evidence that there is a God then do not deserve to know about this God if they purposefully turn a blind eye. Their decision and there loss.
Hi T8,Good post!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Oct. 23 2012,12:35) “It is proof to me.” That's the problem. If you begin with a feeling you have, that you consider proof, the tendency is to find other proof to back up that idea or feeling. Ed has all kinds of numerical proof to prove whatever he wants to prove. It's proof for him. At least eds proof can be studied and analyzed.
Thanks David,Yes; it can.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Oct. 23 2012,15:35) How many Roman Catholics have had a similar experience to yours T8? How many baptists? How many trinity rains have had similar experiences?
I had these experiences just after being an Atheist and while believing in the Trinity.I now don't believe in the Trinity because I got older and read the scriptures for myself.
I have never made the case that if you believe false doctrine that God doesn't work through you or put his spirit in you.
Thus, a person in their heart knows when God speaks to them, or when a slim chance arises.
However it is also written, “The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the YHWH.
The NIV puts it like this: “We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall”.
Have you considered that even luck might be of God? That he determines where the chips fall.
After all, is it not random that you met the person who brought you to YHWH? Or did God even have a hand in that.
Quote (david @ Oct. 23 2012,15:35) My brother believes he saw a flying saucer. So, he believes. Sure, there are 100 more likely possibilities, but, he experienced what he experienced, and he reshaped memories around it. And it's hard to argue with what someone believes they feel.
Seeing a UFO means nothing. Because it is a flying object that is unidentified and flying objects can be natural, man-made, or possibly from an intelligence beyond us.Ruling out the other 2 options and saying that it was an intelligence outside of humanity shows a bias.
If your brother was taken inside the UFO then that would be a different story.
Likewise, if I was taken up into Paradise, then that too would be a different story.
Suffice to say for those who have not tasted of the next age or taken up into a space ship, logic doesn't need UFOs but it does need a God.
Even I understand the fallacy with that last post. This isn't what evolutionarianists 🙂 believe. They don't believe that the species we evolved from exists (because we evolved into it). They believe we had a common ancestor with that species perhaps, but don't believe we evolved from a species that still exists.
We need stu here to point this out. I'm sure he would use larger words and perhaps more attitude, which is always fun.
IMO we don't need Stu. He only avoided questions rather than answering them, and he never provided one piece of evidence to back up atheistic belief. He just wasted time. I only hope that he is searching the Earth for a man after his own heart but who also happens to be 10 times more intelligent than him. Such a man, I would love to see here. Even 5 times more intelligent would be good.
Quote (david @ April 23 2013,15:24) Even I understand the fallacy with that last post. This isn't what evolutionarianists 🙂 believe.
Hang on there david. They believe that each of these species had their day in the sun. The graphic highlights a point, that Evolutionists must believe that there were millions of monkeys and then the branch that led to man consisted of very few beings in each stage of evolution, till we get to man who now numbers in the billions.I mean surely a few questions arise from that fact. Such as can you say for sure that each of these stages was a separate species that existed for all that time as they suggest, or were they just human with some medical condition or an obscure ape that exited few in number.
Surely a successful species that leads to intelligent man would leave a legacy greater than what we see here.
The evidence they have is scant and could just as easily be imaginary. Because it is the imagination that makes the links from these real fossils.
considering everything, The Vatican will be exploding off their DNA AN BACTERIA towards any new evolving life supporting Planet, christians are left mowing over the suddeness of adam an eve in story form..an earth draws near to the end, the end of its Life….
nothing is dimention space…Nothing has to be nothing. an something is… yesterdays nut is todays Oak.
Quote (t8 @ April 22 2013,18:28) 
To all,They died out. We have species dying out at all times.
God created the different kinds and they spread throughout the world. As they spread they encountered different environments and they either evolved in order to adapt or they did not survive in them. If an environment changed then the species within either died out or evolved into a new species or species.
Neither God or Satan stand on the sidewalls while this occurs. They each introduce mutations for their own purposes and according to their natures.
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