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Quote (thethinker @ May 26 2009,10:34) Georg said: Quote The Holy Spirit was offered to the gentiles also, Cornelius was only the first.
Jesus came to the lost sheep, the house/nation of Israel, only until the 70 weeks were up, Dan. 9:24.Hi Georg,
Please show that Cornelius was a gentile. It says that He was a “god fearer” which was an expression used to indicate that he was a proselyte. And please show that gentiles were given the Holy Spirit. And please show that the Holy Spirit is given TODAY.thanks,
thinker
Hi ThinkerBrother if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Rom 8:9, 2 Cor 13:5
Timothy, Pauls own son in the Faith was a gentile. His Father was a Greek! Did you know that?
Two Epistles were written to him!
Blessings WJ
Texas said:
Quote Speaking about reading things out of context! Was you afraid to read Joel 2: 28-32 from beginning to end? It's talking about the great day of Jehovah's anger, where ther'll only be a few survivors. You missed that very small point eh? What! Joel 2:28-32 is NOT talking about God's anger. It is talking about God's salvation. Verse 32 explicitly says that “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” What Bible are you reading? Are you trying to tell us that God poured out His anger on the day of Pentecost? You're delusional man!
Texas said:
Quote Look at Mattew 25:31-46 talking about the time period when ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE GATHERED BEFORE THE CHRIST. Now, are you going to try and tell everyone, that, that's only talking about the Israelite Nation too? It is talking ONLY about the nation of Israel. Go back to chapter 24:30 which says, “then shall all the TRIBES OF THE LAND mourn”. The “tribes” spoken about are the tribes of Israel. They are the “nations” that were judged in Matthew 25. The whole prophecy is about the judgment that came upon the nations of Israel for rejecting their Messiah.
Texas said:
Quote Consider too, what Matthew predicted, when he said: “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in ALL THE INHABITED EARTH FOR A WITNESS TO ALL NATION.” It's not talking about the gospel going out into all the EARTH. The Greek word should have been translated “land” meaning the land of Palestine. Jesus said that they would not finish going through all the cities of Israel. So how could He be talking about the gospel going out to all the nations of the whole inhabited earth when He told them that they wouldn't even reach all of Israel?
Texas said:
Quote So, why do you keep on referring to the Israelite nation when they now have nothing more to do with anything? A thinker your not! Texas! This is exactly what I believe. There is no nation of Israel today that is recognized by God. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is NOT poured out today because He was given ONLY to the nations of Israel. I never said that Israel has any promises today. They do NOT have anything today. You assumed that I believe this. I repeat, the nations of israel have been made “desolate”. They no longer exist in God's eyes. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is NOT poured out today because He was given ONLY to Israelites.
I now add more errors to your growing list
Error# 5: You say that Joel 2:28-32 is about God's anger. Fact is, it is about God's salvation. Nothing at all is said about God's anger in that section.
Error# 6: You say that the nations in Matthew 25 are the gentiles. Fact is, they are the tribes of Israel.
Error# 7: You say that the disciples were commissioned to take the gospel to the whole inhabited earth. Fact is, it was only to the LAND OF PALESTINE. Jesus said that they would not cover all the cities of Israel.
I give you one credit. You are absolutely correct in saying Israel today has nothing. This proves that the Holy Spirit is not poured out today. This is true because the Holy Spirit was given ONLY to Israel. No Israel today infers no Holy Spirit today.
You're making this too easy for me. With all your huff and puff I expect more of a challenge.
thinker
Hi All
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13
The word gentile here is Hellēn which means…
1) a Greek either by nationality, whether a native of the main land or of the Greek islands or colonies
2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship
The Spirit was poured upon all flesh!
Blessings WJ
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote Hi Thinker Brother if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Rom 8:9, 2 Cor 13:5 Greetings WJ,
Paul's statement in Romans 8:9 is a reference to Jewish Christians. In Romans 7:1 he said that he was speaking to them that “know the law”. So he was speaking to Jews. In chapter 8 He gives no indication that he changed his address to Gentiles. In fact, he continues with his distinction between Jews and Gentiles. He said,Quote For we know that every creature (Gentiles) groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only they but WE also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit (Jews), even we ourselves groan within ourselves eagerly awaiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body (Rom. 8:22-23) Please note that Paul referred to two groups of men which were waiting for the adoption. There were those who Paul called “every creature”. And there were those he referred to in the first person, “we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit”. The former were the Gentiles and the latter were the Jews. Both groups of men would receive the adoption. But only one group had the firstfruits of the Spirit. Therefore, Paul meant that if any man [Jew] did not have the Spirit he does not belong to Christ.
I would not be so bold to go against tradition unless I believed I had strong biblical support.
Worshipping Jesus said:
Quote Timothy, Pauls own son in the Faith was a gentile. His Father was a Greek! Did you know that? Though Timothy's father was a Gentile his mother was a Jewish-Christian named Eunice. She no doubt brouht up Timothy in the Jewish law,
Quote You from a child have known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise unto salvation It is more than plausible that Timothy was brought up a Jew and therefore he would be a candidate to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There are no cases to be found anywhere in the Bible that Gentiles received the Holy Spirit. Joel 2 said that God would pour out His Spirit upon the house of Israel. Peter confirmed this in Acts 2.
The Holy Spirit is still at work in the world today but His ministry greatly differs from His ministry in the apostolic age.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2009,03:25) Hi All For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13
The word gentile here is Hellēn which means…
1) a Greek either by nationality, whether a native of the main land or of the Greek islands or colonies
2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship
The Spirit was poured upon all flesh!
Blessings WJ
WJ,
The traditional interpretation you give above is not in accord with the historical facts. I say this with humility. The text does not say that Jews and Gentiles were baptized by the Spirit. It says that Jews and Hellenists were baptized by the Spirit. The distinction is one of class among Israelites. The Hellenists were Greek-Jews that were considered by native born Israelites to be outside the covenant. Paul was correcting that idea saying that all Israelites stand on the same ground in Christ. In chapter 10 Paul said this:Quote Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, ALL WERE BAPTIZED INTO MOSES….
This cannot be applied to non-Israelites.WJ said:
Quote The Spirit was poured upon all flesh! The expression “all flesh” refers to all the nations of Israel that were scattered throughout the world as opposed to native-born Israelites only. This is the historical context.
blessings,
thinkerQuote (thethinker @ May 27 2009,02:34) Georg said: Quote The Holy Spirit was offered to the gentiles also, Cornelius was only the first.
Jesus came to the lost sheep, the house/nation of Israel, only until the 70 weeks were up, Dan. 9:24.Hi Georg,
Please show that Cornelius was a gentile. It says that He was a “god fearer” which was an expression used to indicate that he was a proselyte. And please show that gentiles were given the Holy Spirit. And please show that the Holy Spirit is given TODAY.thanks,
thinker
thinkerLet me show you the scripture that prophesied when the Holy Spirit would be offered to all the world, gentiles, none Jews.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The nation Israel are God's favored People, they have not been the most obedient people, but they remain God's chosen nation; I have already put up plenty scriptures to that effect elsewhere.
What Daniel was given here to understand, that after the seventy weeks, God's favor would extend to the entire world.Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
The counting of the seventy weeks would begin, when the order was given to restore Jerusalem. That order was given in 457 BC by the Persian king Artaxerx.
At the end of seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks, a total of 69 weeks, Messiah the Prince, Jesus, was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit. His ministry began right after baptism, or week seventy.
Jesus, knowing about the seventy weeks, instructed his apostles not to go to any gentile city's.Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.I have no idea why this next scripture has been credited to Antichrist, it is in fact the last of the seventy weeks, during which Jesus and the apostles went all over Judea, preaching, and confirming the new covenant. It was his death on the cross, his sacrifice, after three and a half years, in the midst of the week, that caused the old covenant sacrifices and oblations (offerings) to cease. Not that the Jews stopped them, they did not believe in the son of God.
Now, the bottom part of the scripture below is definitely speaking of Antichrist. But that is another subject.Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.When the seventy weeks were up, Peter was given to understand that the ban on gentiles was lifted. Jesus did in fact eluded to that in.
Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Georg
Georg said:
Quote thinker Let me show you the scripture that prophesied when the Holy Spirit would be offered to all the world, gentiles, none Jews.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The nation Israel are God's favored People, they have not been the most obedient people, but they remain God's chosen nation; I have already put up plenty scriptures to that effect elsewhere.
What Daniel was given here to understand, that after the seventy weeks, God's favor would extend to the entire world.Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
The counting of the seventy weeks would begin, when the order was given to restore Jerusalem. That order was given in 457 BC by the Persian king Artaxerx.
At the end of seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks, a total of 69 weeks, Messiah the Prince, Jesus, was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit. His ministry began right after baptism, or week seventy.
Jesus, knowing about the seventy weeks, instructed his apostles not to go to any gentile city's.Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.I have no idea why this next scripture has been credited to Antichrist, it is in fact the last of the seventy weeks, during which Jesus and the apostles went all over Judea, preaching, and confirming the new covenant. It was his death on the cross, his sacrifice, after three and a half years, in the midst of the week, that caused the old covenant sacrifices and oblations (offerings) to cease. Not that the Jews stopped them, they did not believe in the son of God.
Now, the bottom part of the scripture below is definitely speaking of Antichrist. But that is another subject.Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.When the seventy weeks were up, Peter was given to understand that the ban on gentiles was lifted. Jesus did in fact eluded to that in.
Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Georg,
The ban on the gentiles coming into the covenant was not lifted until all Israel of that generation had FIRST heard the gospel. Paul's mandate was the Jew FIRST. It was absolutely imperative that they all hear the gospel FIRST for when Christ returned in AD70 He destroyed their house leaving them a desolate people. As a race the Jews are extinct. All of Daniel's seventy weeks were fulfilled in AD70.The gift of the Holy Spirit is not needed today because the gifts that accompanied the Spirit were signs to Israel. Since Israel is now extinct then the Spirit with the accompanying gifts are not needed.
thinker
thinker
How do you connect the seventy weeks in Dan. 9:24, with the destruction of 70 AD?
Show me from the bible.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 28 2009,21:43) thinker How do you connect the seventy weeks in Dan. 9:24, with the destruction of 70 AD?
Show me from the bible.Georg
Hi Georg,
It was Jesus Himself who made the connection. He told His disciples that they would see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14). In Luke's account it is said that it is Jerusalem that is made desolate (Luke 21:20).When was Jerusalem made desolate?
thinker
thinker
The abomination spoken of by Daniel is in 9:27;
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
It is this last part that is meant.
What is the abomination that “made IT” desolate? The “IT” is Christs sacrifice on the cross; and what made it desolate, destroyed it? The Catholic Church's Mass sacrifice. The Catholic church teaches that our daily sins can only be forgiven by, first confessing your sins to a priest (a man), and then take communion after the bread and wine have been literally changed into the body and blood of Jesus Christ by this Mass sacrifice. What this in essence is saying is, what Christ did on the cross was not enough, that he has to die again and again. It is the greatest insult to Jesus, and for God to call something an abomination, is the strongest term used to show how much he hates it.
The destruction of Jerusalem has nothing to do with the abomination.Georg
THE HOLY GHOST IS MOST DEFFENATLY PORED OUT TODAY OR THERE COLKD BE NO SALVATION. I SAW AND RECIEVED THE OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY GHOST. AND I CANT EXPLAIN HOW IT FEELS EXCEPT ITS JOY UNSPEAKABLE AND FULL OF GLORY.
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ June 30 2009,03:39) THE HOLY GHOST IS MOST DEFFENATLY PORED OUT TODAY OR THERE COLKD BE NO SALVATION. I SAW AND RECIEVED THE OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY GHOST. AND I CANT EXPLAIN HOW IT FEELS EXCEPT ITS JOY UNSPEAKABLE AND FULL OF GLORY.
I received the Holy Ghost two months to the day, after I was baptised. It was awesome. I read my Bible for a few months, learning all I could and I went looking for a church that taught the Book of Acts. I found some Churches didn't even know what I was talking about, but I knew what I read and that was what I wanted. I knew it was right because that is what the Bible said. I didn't know much but I knew that much. If it didn't line up with the book of Acts, I didn't want it. The apostles baptised in the name of Jesus (every time) and they told others to get the Holy Ghost. Have you recevied the Holy Ghost since you believed, they asked. Have you?When I found a Church that lined up with the Bible on speaking in tongues when you receive the Holy Ghost, I got baptised and started praying for the Holy Ghost. I asked God all the time and finally one glorious night, I received it in exactly the same way they had in the book of Acts.
I am so glad I read my Bible first, instead of ending up in a Church that lies to thier congregation and tells them it is not for today. That false doctrine will send so many to Hell. Not only is for today but it is necessary to be saved. If you have not his Spirit, you are none of his. If you cannot take someone to the place and tell them the time, you received the Holy Spirit, then you need to rethink your salvation. You will know, the same way they did in the Book of Acts. And not only that, but those around you will know too, because they will hear you speaking in tongues and magnifying God.
I don't belong to any church or follow any church doctrine. I read my Bible and let the Holy Spirit lead me to the truth. He hasn't let me down yet. I fellowship with others in my home on on the internet. Most churches are teaching false doctrine.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,19:15) Hi EV,
I agree 2Cor 13.1 is the way to find truth.
Keep walking in the Spirit.
You don't believe everyone should speak in tongues when you receive the Holy Ghost do you Nick? You are only familiar with the Gift of tongues and not the unknown tongue that Paul speaks of.
Speaking in tongues is referred to in the NT 37 times. It might be good to learn the difference between the unknown tongue which edifies us and the Gift of tongues which edifies the church. There are two different tongues. You should be speaking in the unknown if you have the Holy Ghost within you. Read the last part of Acts Chapter ten about the first Gentile converts. How did they know they had received the Holy Ghost? Look that scripture up and tell me what it says.Hi Evah,
Why would you make such presumptions?What of the tongues of angels?
What of the groans of rom8?Edification in unknown tongues can be through the gift of interpretation.[1Cor12]
Hi evah,
Not all have all the gifts.
Paul rejoiced he had tongues.
It is a common manifestation of the Holy Spirit.But there are false gifts.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 31 2009,11:32) Hi evah,
Not all have all the gifts.
Paul rejoiced he had tongues.
It is a common manifestation of the Holy Spirit.But there are false gifts.
I knew because you pointed me to the same scriptures, people always point to, who deny that we all should speak in tongues. Have you read Chapter ten of Acts. Have you read the final scriptures of that chapter? You didn't answer my question. How did they know they had received the Holy Ghost in the same way the Jews did?ACTS 10: 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
HOW DID THEY KNOW? ——————————
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Now before you tell me this was just so the Jews would know the Gentiles were also to be saved….I will need a scripture….
HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU BELEIVED?
“Paul, having passed through the upper coasts, came to Ephesus. And finding certain disciples, he said unto them, ‘Have ye received the holy Ghost since ye believed?’ And they said unto him, ‘We have not so much as heard whether there be any holy Ghost.’ And he said unto them, ‘Unto what then were ye baptized?’ And they said, ‘Unto John’s baptism.’ Then said Paul, ‘John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.’ When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” (Acts 19:1-7)
Have you Nick?
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