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Hi Nick,
You say, “Sin is natural to men.” Sometimes that bothers me. Why is it natural? Why are we destined to be burdened with this sin nature? All because supposedly two people goofed in the garden? I mean, really! All of mandkind after them have to bear this burden?
Hi not3,
Unless we understand the universal bondage to sin we will never see the need to preach the gospel. We are born children of wrath. Homosexuality is one of the natural manifestations of the sin that is in man. Thus some will call it normal behaviour.John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Matthew 4:16
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 11 2008,10:23) Hi Nick, You say, “Sin is natural to men.” Sometimes that bothers me. Why is it natural? Why are we destined to be burdened with this sin nature? All because supposedly two people goofed in the garden? I mean, really! All of mandkind after them have to bear this burden?
Hi Mandy,The two in the garden sinned.
Was God not able to create a being incapable of
sinning. Or is it perhaps that God wanted us to sin all along.Just think, He could have nipped all of this sinning garbage in the bud by merely leaving out the sinning gene to begin with.
Nope, I am pretty certain that sinning was part of the plan as well.
Tim
I predict in the next 15 years, we'll be having the same discussion about bestiality as we are about homosexuality.
Sure, the majority will continue to frown on it for some time, but eventually, it will be politically correct, fine, acceptable.
It's the frog in the hot water. It happens so slowly, he doesn't notice the change. And then he's dead.
I have some questions for stue:
Is there anything wrong with someone killing themselves, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else? Or would you try to stop such an action and perhaps think this person has some wires crossed in their brain?
When people start saying: “If a man and a man can get married, or if a man can marry 10 wives, why can't a man marry a dog” will you think this is wrong?
(I'd actually like answers. Please, no smiley faces.)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 11 2008,06:47) Hi,
Sin is natural to men.
It is the fruit of their flesh.Gal5
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Following the flesh in any way does not lead to the kingdom of God and this sin is just another manifestation of the hopelessly lost state of mankind. Thornbushes cannot produce figs.
Jesus came to save all sinners and to empower them with the Spirit to produce useful fruit.
Hi Nick:What do you mean when you state that “sin is natural to man?
Hi 94,
Jb25
4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
Jb7
17″What is man that You magnify him,
And that You are concerned about him,Rom3
9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
…
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Jn8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Hi 94,
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.Quote (david @ April 10 2008,18:55) I predict in the next 15 years, we'll be having the same discussion about bestiality as we are about homosexuality. Sure, the majority will continue to frown on it for some time, but eventually, it will be politically correct, fine, acceptable.
It's the frog in the hot water. It happens so slowly, he doesn't notice the change. And then he's dead.
I have some questions for stue:
Is there anything wrong with someone killing themselves, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else? Or would you try to stop such an action and perhaps think this person has some wires crossed in their brain?
When people start saying: “If a man and a man can get married, or if a man can marry 10 wives, why can't a man marry a dog” will you think this is wrong?
(I'd actually like answers. Please, no smiley faces.)
You know David, I'll bet that other Christians felt the same way about the early JWs and Christians feel about homosexuals today.Quote You know David, I'll bet that other Christians felt the same way about the early JWs and Christians feel about homosexuals today. Today, there's some 80 countries where homosexuality is illegal. There's only 30 countries where being a JW is illegal.
Homosexuality or the act thereof is very clearly condemned in the Bible.
What God does not condemn is Christians, yet Jesus said that his followers would be hated by the world.
So there is a similarity in that both are looked down on by different groups, but one rightly so, and one not.Hi David
Quote I predict in the next 15 years, we'll be having the same discussion about bestiality as we are about homosexuality.
It is generally only the religious who object to others expressing same-sex sexuality. So speak for yourself and your church!Quote Sure, the majority will continue to frown on it for some time, but eventually, it will be politically correct, fine, acceptable.
The majority have prejudice taught to them through Abrahamic mythology.Quote I have some questions for stue:
Is there anything wrong with someone killing themselves, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else?
No. But the only case of it not harming someone else I can think of is that of planned euthanasia as a result of permanent misery from terminal illness. It disgusts me that so many christians have so little compassion for this situation.Quote Or would you try to stop such an action and perhaps think this person has some wires crossed in their brain?
It is not a black-and-white world, but suicide is always a poor option.Quote When people start saying: “If a man and a man can get married, or if a man can marry 10 wives, why can't a man marry a dog” will you think this is wrong?
Yes. Homosexuality is the expression of love between two humans capable, and of age, to give consent. Bestiality involves a party that cannot give consent.Quote (I'd actually like answers. Please, no smiley faces.)
Sure. Whatever you want. We are here at your behest.
Pleased to be of service.
Stuart
Quote (david @ April 11 2008,17:03) Quote You know David, I'll bet that other Christians felt the same way about the early JWs and Christians feel about homosexuals today. Today, there's some 80 countries where homosexuality is illegal. There's only 30 countries where being a JW is illegal.
Homosexuality or the act thereof is very clearly condemned in the Bible.
What God does not condemn is Christians, yet Jesus said that his followers would be hated by the world.
So there is a similarity in that both are looked down on by different groups, but one rightly so, and one not.
Would it not be a better would in which there were no countries where expressing homosexuality was illegal and no countries where being JW was illegal?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 10 2008,21:40) Quote (Stu @ April 10 2008,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 10 2008,21:20) Hi Stu,
As far back as the garden?
The serpent was about then.
Go back to the human cultures that existed before the garden of Eden. You will find homosexuality there too.Stuart
Hi Stu,
Do tell us of this time?
Do you want to know about the history of our species before James Ussher's estimate of the time of the mythological creation in 4004 BCE? There is a further period of 180,000 years before that event's non-occurrence.Stuart
Quote (david @ April 10 2008,18:55) When people start saying: “If a man and a man can get married, or if a man can marry 10 wives, why can't a man marry a dog” will you think this is wrong?
Marry 10 wives? Seemed to be fine in the OT…Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 10 2008,21:41) Hi Stu,
You said in another thread
“In a very real sense my parents gave me life but they do not have the right to kill me.”
So your ethics do not accept murder.
that all?
Are you asking me whether I have other ethical principles?Stuart
Hi Stu,
Ethics surely are human rules and cultural norms of decency based on mutual respect.
I am all for live and let live as Peter wrote in general terms in his first letter.
Those to be pulled from the fire will be drawn to the light.
Those who care not will usually stay far away.
But what of those who oppose the light?MY bottom Line?
I remember walking thru New Orleans, not long before disaster hit it, I was filled with empathy at the view,
this is what I thought…..No man knoweth either love or hatred
The Earth is “flooded” with Evidence of craving souls, unfulfilled people, trying everything and anything to comfort themselves to satisfied.
I found not a judging bone in my body.
Charity Good to see you, but you think it is O.K. what you seen in New Orleans? I find that City to be Sodom and Gomorrah. I am not to judge anybody, but we also have to see tho what is wrong or right, don't you think so. And make others aware of it, so they do not fall into the trap of Oh, everybody is doing it, and so it is alright to do.
Love Mrs.
Earth falls short of the knowledge of either love or hatred
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 12 2008,18:44) Charity Good to see you, but you think it is O.K. what you seen in New Orleans? I find that City to be Sodom and Gomorrah. I am not to judge anybody, but we also have to see tho what is wrong or right, don't you think so. And make others aware of it, so they do not fall into the trap of Oh, everybody is doing it, and so it is alright to do. Love Mrs.
What is wrong with homosexuality?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,17:05) Hi Stu,
Ethics surely are human rules and cultural norms of decency based on mutual respect.
I am all for live and let live as Peter wrote in general terms in his first letter.
Those to be pulled from the fire will be drawn to the light.
Those who care not will usually stay far away.
But what of those who oppose the light?
If the “light” is the homicidal supernatural maniac described in the OT the the question becomes “What of those who accept it”?Stuart
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