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Scripture is black-and-white and so is the 'thinking' of many christians. The world is all shades of grey. Scripture is a poor model for reality, but one that suits simpletons.
Stuart
Romans 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice
My understanding is that homosexuality is most definitely a sin, it is to MISS the MARK of God's intended function between males and females. Homosexuals are going against the natural order of which God created between males and females. It is completely dysfunctional, like all sin is dysfunctional.
More and more youth are becoming bisexual or homosexual because there is a new culture that is now glorifying it. Vulnerable teens, desperate and needy to distinguish a sense of self, are clinging to sexual immorality more then ever. It's very cool these days, especially for girls to be bisexual and make out with other girls. Today's pop culture is an extreme influential force promoting sexual freedom and experimentation. For others however it's not environmental influences but rather internal mis-wiring in the brain of which was caused by either abuse and trauma at a young age or by some sort of medical condition.
When Christ returns it is my belief that some will receive healing while others will need to undergo punishment to rid the dysfunctional behavior.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,12:29) WorshippingJesus and thinker, If all you are saying is that homosexual predators exist, then I agree (and apologize for misunderstanding you). However, take a look at the title of this thread, “Have you ever been approached by some one gay?, The truth about their agenda!” Does that not look like a blanket generalization about homosexuality in general? Can you see why people might think that you are painting all homosexuals with the same predatory brush?
Hi WITNot at all. The question is rather they should get a pass instead of being marked like other predators?
Unless you have your head in the sand, they do have an agenda!
They would like for all to be like themselves.
WJ
OK WorshippingJesus. Your posts continue to be self-contradictory (as far as I can understand them) so let's make this very simple. Which of the following do you believe:
A. All homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
B. Most homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
C. Only a few homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.I keep hearing option A in your posts, but you seem to be trying to downplay that presumption.
For the record, why does it matter if the predatory behavior involves homosexuals or heterosexuals? Isn't it the predatory behavior itself that is the problem? Again, if that's all you are really saying, then why entitle the thread, “Have you ever been approached by some one gay?, The truth about their agenda!”?
Quote (Cato @ Aug. 05 2009,01:53)
(Cato)Quote So how do we know what is God's will in such matters? Scripture of course, but whose scripture Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Hebrew, Jain, Zoroastorian, Sikh, Shinto? That is precisely the point of my statement about Cyrus, King of Persia.
The God of the Hebrew bible made that declaration. NO OTHER GOD of ANY description has ever done such a thing.
The Catholics cannot claim credit for the scriptures of ancient Israel, nor can the Protestants. None of the rest of your litany of devotees can even come close, and do not even care for such lofty claims.
I have no problem with seeking to understand a God so powerful as the God of Israel, nor do I tread lightly in his presence. And I do not throw him in a pot to be stirred with shinto, Budha, Muslim, hindo, and etc. In other words, I keep him separated in my heart from the idolatrys of men.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 05 2009,04:40) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,20:06) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,07:28) Quote An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999) This isn't rocket science. If you want to argue that a sexual orientation is bad because it “has victims”, then heterosexuality should have long ago been outlawed, owing to its great number of rape victims.
For the record, I am in Cato's camp. I don't “get” homosexuality, but as long as it is taking place in the realm of consenting adults, I don't need to.
I am qurious as to your background in religious training, if any.And the reason for this curiosity, is because yesterday's Tampa Tribune (8/3/09) has another article concerning the Episcopalian Church's position; that they are ordaining one Gay and one Lesbian Bishop. It is causing a split in the Episcopalian community, but the “leaders” responsible don't seem to care about that.
Is it that you have no understanding of what scripture says about the issue, Is it that you don't care what scripture says about the issue, or is it that you disagree with what scripture says about the issue?
Would you care to respond?
I thought that I clearly identified myself as a Catoite in my last post.
In any case, let me ask you this: Do you eat shellfish, (e.g crab, lobster, shrimp, etc.)?
Lev 11:10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.
That word “abomination” is the same word used to describe homosexuality.
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Are you as disdainful of shellfish as you are of homosexuality?
No.The reason I am not so bothered, is because God made dietary laws to the Jews, not to the world. Those dietary laws never applied to me, nor will they ever.
The laws concerning homosexuality however, ARE carried over to the church. See the OP.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 05 2009,04:40) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,20:06) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,07:28) Quote An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999) This isn't rocket science. If you want to argue that a sexual orientation is bad because it “has victims”, then heterosexuality should have long ago been outlawed, owing to its great number of rape victims.
For the record, I am in Cato's camp. I don't “get” homosexuality, but as long as it is taking place in the realm of consenting adults, I don't need to.
I am qurious as to your background in religious training, if any.And the reason for this curiosity, is because yesterday's Tampa Tribune (8/3/09) has another article concerning the Episcopalian Church's position; that they are ordaining one Gay and one Lesbian Bishop. It is causing a split in the Episcopalian community, but the “leaders” responsible don't seem to care about that.
Is it that you have no understanding of what scripture says about the issue, Is it that you don't care what scripture says about the issue, or is it that you disagree with what scripture says about the issue?
Would you care to respond?
I thought that I clearly identified myself as a Catoite in my last post. In any case, let me ask you this: Do you eat shellfish, (e.g crab, lobster, shrimp, etc.)?
Lev 11:10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.
That word “abomination” is the same word used to describe homosexuality.
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Are you as disdainful of shellfish as you are of homosexuality?
No.The reason I am not so bothered, is because God made dietary laws to the Jews, not to the world. Those dietary laws never applied to me, nor will they ever.
The laws concerning homosexuality however, ARE carried over to the church. See the OP.
W.J. My Husband was approached by a gay man, before I met Him. I really think that the problem is greater then most realize. I too was approached by a girl who I shared an apartment with, too. So I will vote just to see how many will say that they have.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,15:34) OK WorshippingJesus. Your posts continue to be self-contradictory (as far as I can understand them) so let's make this very simple. Which of the following do you believe: A. All homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
B. Most homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
C. Only a few homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.I keep hearing option A in your posts, but you seem to be trying to downplay that presumption.
For the record, why does it matter if the predatory behavior involves homosexuals or heterosexuals? Isn't it the predatory behavior itself that is the problem? Again, if that's all you are really saying, then why entitle the thread, “Have you ever been approached by some one gay?, The truth about their agenda!”?
Hi WITSo far “A” is what I see! Why wouldn't that be their agenda?
The first step is to teach that there is nothing wrong with the acts.
Secondly, if they can get everyone to agree to accepting their life style then they will influence more to join their cause.
If you do not see that they have a cause then you have your head in the sand!
As far as the predatory behavior is concerned, my point is that this is a bigger problem than you and stu are willing to admit.
I am proof of that, and if those who post here were honest they might vote, but the silence is deafining, HMM, I wonder why?
WJ
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 04 2009,03:40) Are you going to ask how many young women were approached by lecherous straight men? Is being told about hell by a christian worse than sexual abuse for young people? There are those who say it is.
Shall we start another poll? Who here has told nasty christian lies to children?
Eternal damnation lies?
Creationist lies?
Stopping them from socialising with their peers?
What else constitutes abuse of the young that you are conveniently ignoring?
Stuart
StuI find it rather sick that you would put telling kids what you call fantasys or fairy tells in the same catogory as a gay predator seeking to seduce minors and young children!
Are you one that would say “its ok, he couldnt help molesting that 12 year old boy because he was born that way”?
Where is your compassion for the victoms here?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Really? You think ALL homosexuals have an agenda to convert as many heterosexuals to homosexuals as possible?
I have been around gay people enough to know that is simply NOT true. Many just want peace and freedom from judgment. My friend who is married with two kids has a gay brother, and he certainly has no agenda to convert heterosexuals to homosexuals and neither do his gay friends.
WJ, you don't think your stretching it with the ALL homosexuals?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 04 2009,17:14) Hi WJ, Really? You think ALL homosexuals have an agenda to convert as many heterosexuals to homosexuals as possible?
I have been around gay people enough to know that is simply NOT true. Many just want peace and freedom from judgment. My friend who is married with two kids has a gay brother, and he certainly has no agenda to convert heterosexuals to homosexuals and neither do his gay friends.
WJ, you don't think your stretching it with the ALL homosexuals?
Hi JodyIf they are not showing their agenda then that is no proof in what they believe or want.
Be honest, it would only be natural for them to want everyone doing the same thing in order to justify their actions.
Some are not as militant as others, but the bottom line is they support the militant cause! IMO
WJ
FROM THE BOOK “HOW CHRISTIANITY CHANGED THE WORLD”
PEDASTRY (PEDOPHILIA)
Many people today know that the Greeks were notorious for their homosexual behavior. But often they do not know that the Greek homosexual was primarily pederasty or pedaphilia, that is, an adult man having sex with a young boy who commonly was between twelve and sixteen years old. Roman literature both before and after the birth of Christ has numerous references, similar to Greek writings, showing that this kind of homosexual behavior was widespread and common.
That Roman homosexuality was largely pederastic is underscored by its own poet Martial. He is rather explicit and unembarrassed in referring to it. To Phaedrus, he writes, “You sleep with well endowed boys” (Epigrams 3.72) To another he says, “You do it with long-haired boys whom you have procured for yourself with your wife’s dowry (Epigram’s 7.97) So explicit are Martial’s writings that he even notes one man was unable to sodomize his boy lover who had diarrhea (Epigram’s 11.88). Florence Dupont, a modern historian, writes that the Romans were so obsessed with pederasty that “beardless youths had to be prohibited from taking part in Saturnalia [a festival in honor of Saturn, the harvest god] in order to protect their virtue.”Today’s outlawing of pedophilia, that is, and adult having sex with someone who is a juvenile, is the result of Chtistianity’s influence. Had Christianity not entered the culture of the Greeks and Romans, where pederasty was common, widespread and accepted, it is doubtful that there would now be laws against child molestation.
(How Christianity Change the World pages 86-87, Alvin J. Schmidt, Zondervan)
To read the entire chapter on homosexuality click on the link below. Then click on chapter 3 “Christianity Elevates Sexual Morality.” All facts are documented and only those who love homosexuals can deny it. We are on our way back to degradation thanks to modern day pagans of which some post here. Some of you people here ought to thank God we Christians exist. And some day you will regret your being our enemies.
http://books.google.com/books?i….f=false
thinker
Hi stu
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 04 2009,14:53) If abrahamists did not preach from a book that contains pronouncements of abomination and incitements to murder for gay people, taken seriously by so many redneck christians, then maybe people would be more honest about their sexual feelings.
Are you making a confession here?WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 05 2009,04:05) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,15:34) OK WorshippingJesus. Your posts continue to be self-contradictory (as far as I can understand them) so let's make this very simple. Which of the following do you believe: A. All homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
B. Most homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
C. Only a few homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.I keep hearing option A in your posts, but you seem to be trying to downplay that presumption.
For the record, why does it matter if the predatory behavior involves homosexuals or heterosexuals? Isn't it the predatory behavior itself that is the problem? Again, if that's all you are really saying, then why entitle the thread, “Have you ever been approached by some one gay?, The truth about their agenda!”?
Hi WITSo far “A” is what I see! Why wouldn't that be their agenda?
The first step is to teach that there is nothing wrong with the acts.
Secondly, if they can get everyone to agree to accepting their life style then they will influence more to join their cause.
If you do not see that they have a cause then you have your head in the sand!
As far as the predatory behavior is concerned, my point is that this is a bigger problem than you and stu are willing to admit.
I am proof of that, and if those who post here were honest they might vote, but the silence is deafining, HMM, I wonder why?
WJ
Case closed.All of my previous comments to you stand.
Paladin,
Your OP does not explain the nuances between the abomination of shellfish and the abomination of homosexuality as described in Leviticus.
Furthermore, why would something that is abominable to God at one point now be perfectly fine? Is sin really that arbitrary? Is God a moral relativist?
Are you talking about these Christians?
Quote A survey of U.S. Catholic dioceses conducted by the Associated Press … found that 1,341 clergy members have been accused of molesting children since the 1950s. Seems like Christianity is still changing the world.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,21:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 05 2009,04:05) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 04 2009,15:34) OK WorshippingJesus. Your posts continue to be self-contradictory (as far as I can understand them) so let's make this very simple. Which of the following do you believe: A. All homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
B. Most homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.
C. Only a few homosexuals have an agenda of converting as many heterosexuals as possible into homosexuals.I keep hearing option A in your posts, but you seem to be trying to downplay that presumption.
For the record, why does it matter if the predatory behavior involves homosexuals or heterosexuals? Isn't it the predatory behavior itself that is the problem? Again, if that's all you are really saying, then why entitle the thread, “Have you ever been approached by some one gay?, The truth about their agenda!”?
Hi WITSo far “A” is what I see! Why wouldn't that be their agenda?
The first step is to teach that there is nothing wrong with the acts.
Secondly, if they can get everyone to agree to accepting their life style then they will influence more to join their cause.
If you do not see that they have a cause then you have your head in the sand!
As far as the predatory behavior is concerned, my point is that this is a bigger problem than you and stu are willing to admit.
I am proof of that, and if those who post here were honest they might vote, but the silence is deafining, HMM, I wonder why?
WJ
Case closed.All of my previous comments to you stand.
Hi WITUnfortunately, for many victoms the case is not closed!
WJ
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 05 2009,14:03) Are you talking about these Christians? Quote A survey of U.S. Catholic dioceses conducted by the Associated Press … found that 1,341 clergy members have been accused of molesting children since the 1950s. Seems like Christianity is still changing the world.
Yes Christianity is still changing the world because pedophilia is still against the law. I am aware that some who name the name of Christ do abhorrent things to children. My head is not buried in the sand like yours. I guess you don't care that people like you are assisting the homosexuals in changing our our culture to return to the ancient pagan cultures. Read the book and open your eyes.thinker
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