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The KJ shows that hell has a place where there was a place where men were the unrightious are being reserved until until the day of judgement. There was also a place in the lower parts referred to as the bosom of Abraham by Jesus. This is where the souls of the rightious dead were held until Jesus sent them free with his victory over death.
When the scriptures say he tasted death for every man, what do you suppose it is referring to? It cannot be referring to physical death, for all men die in the flesh. It is referring to spiritual death. When a man is born again, he will never die in the spirit. So when he dies in the flesh, his spirit lives in Christ. That is what Jesus meant when he said if you believe in me, you will never die.
Hi,
So this is the Hell [hades] that is cast into the Hell [Lake of fire/gehenna]?Of course those that are living believers at the return of Christ will never die.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2006,16:50) Hi t8,
622 apollumi: perish. destroy, destroy utterlyThe word is almost the only one used in NT scripture to mean “perish”
And almost always it is used of things that are known to be perishable, the things that are visible and of this world.
the earth
humans
bodies
parts of bodies
clothing
jewellery
riches
It is used in about 26 occasions in relationship to such visible created matter.The challenge then is to find where it refers to invisible things like souls and angels and try to fathom the comparable meaning.
Hi Nick.As far as I know all the scriptures that I have under the heading PERISH use the same word. Some uses are for temporary things and is also used in regard to the wicked.
Same goes for the word DESTRUCTION. It is used in regards to flesh and the wicked.
Those that are living when Jesus comes for the church will be changed. Just as it says in the scriptures. Mortal must put on immortal. Those who are living in Christ will be changed. They will die in the flesh, but are quicken in the spirit. Yet the change will be instantanious. Our bodies will change from corruptible to incorrible within a twinking of an eye.
1Cor.15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Psalm 112:10
The wicked man will see and be vexed, he will gnash his teeth and waste away; the longings of the wicked will come to nothing.Hi all:
I believe that t8 has shown through the scriptures that hell (Ghenna) is a reality, but that man will not suffer throughout eternity as some teach. Every man will be judged according to his works. (Rev. 20:13)
My understanding is that those who are alive when Jesus comes back for the church who have worshiped the Anti-Christ will be judged by the seven last plagues. (2 Thess. 2:3-11, Rev. 14:9-11, Rev. 16, Rev. 19:14-21)
The unsaved who have died prior to this time will be resurrected in the second resurrection after the 1000 year reign and will be judged according to their works at that time. (Rev. 20:5-14) Rev. 20:15 states: “And whosoever was not found witten in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire”.
To those who question, “Why would a loving God cast any one into hell?”, I would respond, “Why would any one in their right mind choose destruction over life?” If anyone goes to hell, it is because that was their choice. (John 3:16-18)
I do not believe at this time that the parable of Lazarus and the rich man can be taken literally. When a man dies, his body goes to the dust. The rich man is protrayed as seeing Abraham and asking that Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue. (St. Luke 16:23-24) Also, some state that the souls of the unsaved are in this conscious state of misery until the Great White Throne Judgment. That means that the person who died unsaved 2000 years ago would be in a conscious state of misery until this very day while someone who dies today would not have as long a stay in this state of misery. However, I must confess that is a difficult passage of scripture to understand. It may be that Jesus told it for the benefit of the Pharisees who were part of his audience. (St. Luke 16-13-15) We must pray and ask God to give us understanding.
Hi All:
The following scriptures come to mind relative to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus states: “And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)
Hi,
Jude
” 9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee”Was this dispute over the body of Moses to do with Hades and the bosom of Abraham?
Where is Hell? Why it maybe in Hello!
Brothers and sisters
Amo 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.Interesting Jona saw coruption (THE DUST he may have died in the belly of the whale and resurrected again)
Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars [was] about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
charity
charity
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2006,22:19) Hi,
Jude
” 9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee”Was this dispute over the body of Moses to do with Hades and the bosom of Abraham?
Hi NickMoses did not enter the promised Land; yet he should and will enter!
And yet he appeared on the mt and spoke with Christ, in the presence of witnesses
I don't think a body shall be found to say he is dead and perished, for he is redeemed of the Lord?
charity
Hi C,
His body was rescued by Michael from the threat of wrath.
Jude
“9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. “If Moses was barely saved how much more grateful should we be towards the Son of God and be patient sufferers awaiting the Day of the Lord.
Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, ” Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”To all,
Adam made the point that Gehanan is not mentioned in the Old Testiment. My familiarity with the Old Testiment is limited and the best I could come up with is the scripture that goes “and their worm will never die”. I also believe there is a congruent scripture in Revelation though I do not remember its particular address. Does anyone else know the address of these and other scriptures relating to the final punishment of the wicked. If so could you please share them. Thank you!
Quote (sunnyb @ Sep. 03 2002,12:02) in I John 1:5, the bible says that “God is light and in him is no darkness at all”. I cannot figure out how then we can attribute a place of suffering for anything other than the spirits under lucifers control and people's spirits born of lucifers seed. We are basically come in this life to make a descison as to wether we would like to be with God for eternity or not. If we did descide aginst it then shouldnt we just not exist? (gravedom….a word that comes from the greek words for Hell) if God were to punish us for eternity for not wanting to be with him wouldnt that be fear motivation? isnt fear not light? then that cant possibly be God….That would be like asking if you would like to play pool and if you did not then I would break your legs…wouldnt you call that fear motivation? I believe (speaking from experience) that if you study the words for Hell (hades , geena , and shehole ) (strongs #'s in brackets) that you will conclude that what most get is gravedom…non existance. seed of the serpant and the spirits of lucifer get suffering and the lake of fire. I would be interested to hear what you have to say in response…I have looked at alot of the content of this website and am impressed with the large content of hard work in the area of rightly dividing the Word of God. (II tim 2:15) either way this site has blessed me and in return I hope that i am not wasting anyone's time. God bless and happy studying!
SunnyB,Your post is great.
It is about time people began to understand God's mercy, love, light and grace.
God is merciful even to those who reject him..
In a sense, God gives them what they wanted.
They did not want God, they do not get God.
They do not believe in God or his blessings, they don't get God or his blessings.
But where are they to go where God or his blessings are not found?
The only place where God and his blessings are not found is in death.
God lets them have what they wanted.
barley
Quote (echad @ Nov. 24 2002,23:21) Sunny, I agree…”the wages of sin are death”, not “eternal torment” – the lake of fire is the “second DEATH”.
What do you mean by the “serpent seed”? Are you talking about the Arnold Murray teaching?
Correct!Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2002,08:26) I actually do not believe that God will punish rebellious creatures for all eternity. I do not preach this yet as I am in the stages of praying and thinking about the truth here. But as it stands right now, I do not believe in eternal punishment for the following reasons: What does the word perish mean?? Look up the word, then read the following scriptures.
Colossians 2:21-22
21″Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.Hebrews 1:10-
10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.The last 2 quotes help us to understand the meaning and context of the word perish. Now read on
1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[ 15:54 Isaiah 25:8]Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.2 Corinthians 4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
You did your homework!And you are finding out that death is something that happens in a moment of time, but is a continuing state once death occurs.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. The context of that teaching is in a discussion of ? The resurrection.
It is because of resurrection God is the God of the living.
great work.
barley
Quote (echad @ Nov. 26 2002,16:37) More power to you, don't preach it! (LOL) Besides the scriptural points you have made, we must consider how ludicrous the proposition is that God would allow sinners to experience conscious torment FOREVER for the sins of a short lifetime on earth. Above all, God is “just”. How could ANYONE accumulate enough sins to warrant ENDLESS conscious torment?! In keeping with the question of whether or not to preach “eternal torment”, many preachers, tragically, feel that they NEED to preach it in order to “encourage” people to repent. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Imagine how many people have REJECTED the gospel because they were told that they ought to love a God who would allow them to “suffer ETERNALLY” if they DIDN'T? Then they are told, in the next breath, that “God is love”. How are they expected to believe this isn't a contradiction?
Excellent pointsYou're on a roll, don't stop now.
barley
Quote (childofthelight @ May 27 2003,18:29) Hey guys, glad you bring this up. I am going through doctrinal discussions with my friend who is a “jehovah's” witness and they don't believe in an eternal Hell either. I have found the following scriptures which, several coming from Christ, are enough to convince me of eternal, conscious, fiery torment. Here they are:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 3:12Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire. prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41-46Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.. Jude 7
Interesting viewpoints nonetheless. I think we need to remember that although our Lord God (Jehovah) wants all to be saved, he is just as JUST as he is merciful. His ways are higher than ours.
sheol or hades is not the gehenna.
You may see that a fire is everlasting as long as there is something to burn. It lasts ever there is fuel.
The gehenna is a place outside of the walls of Jerusalem where trash was burned.
It was said that the fires in the Gehenna never went out. Why? because trash was continually being added. Not because the trash was not being burned out of existence.
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