Hebrews

[Towshab]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 15 2007,03:52)

Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 15 2007,00:15) I have a question. What is the big deal in excepting the entire Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments as 100% truth from God? The advocating of stoning children to death would be a good start. Or do you not accept this part of the 100%? Stuart

Yes stuff like that was in there but isn't it interesting that the death penalty in in Israel is almost non-existent while in the 'Christian county' of USA it is still prevalent in many states?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Israel

=========================================
In modern Israel, capital punishment is illegal in almost all circumstances. The death penalty was abolished in 1954 with the exceptions of conviction for treason during a time of war and genocide. Only one person has been civilly executed in the history of the modern State of Israel – Adolf Eichmann in 1962, after he was convicted in 1961 of participation in Nazi war crimes relating to the Holocaust. Others have been sentenced to death but won appeals to overturn the sentence.

It is generally accepted that one of the reasons for Israel's rare use of the death penalty is Jewish religious law. However, there is some debate as to whether Jewish law forbids capital punishment. Biblical law explicitly mandates the death penalty for 36 offenses, from murder and rape to idolatry and desecration of the Sabbath. Still, Jewish scholars since the beginning of the common era have developed such restrictive rules to prevent execution of the innocent that the death penalty has become de facto illegal. Most modern Jewish religious leaders and scholars believe that the death penalty should remain unused.
============================================

Seems Jews know how to progress out of the 'stone ages'

[charity]

Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 15 2007,03:49)

Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 15 2007,00:44) I also ask that Stu and Towshab stop now. I'm in agreement in the name of Jesus Christ. Thank you chap that you agree with me. Jesus is our Savior and our Lord and our Heavenly Fathers loves His only begotten Son, because He did everything that the Father wanted Him to do. Praice Our Heavenly Father through our Savior Jesus Christ. Peace and Love Mrs.

Keep singing Plasms and hyms, Mrs truth

Every soul is responsible for his own thoughts and deeds and shall reap what they sow accordingly. “This is law”
and thru our individual will co-operate with divine Will.
The eternal truths/principles shared in all sacred writings for man's benefit, stand for all time, to test
If the principle of love is within…further empowering us by his coming with the Holy Spirit in truth.

charity

[Towshab]

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,11:28)

Any have an explanation of this verse? Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: This verse goes hand in hand with this one Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

No takers on these? Both speak of offerings given after Jesus' death. How can this be if Jesus paid it all? The word for 'gifts' in Hebrews 8:4 is 'doron'

======================================
G1435
δῶρον
dōron
do'-ron
A present; specifically a sacrifice: – gift, offering.
======================================

The word for 'offering' in Acts 21:26 is 'prosphora' which also implies a sacrifice.

[TimothyVI]

I think that it was awfully hard for Paul to break with Jewish traditions.
Just because Paul did it, and it is written that he did it, does not mean that God approved of it.

Look what King David did. God did not approve, but he was still a man after God's own heart.

Tim

[Towshab]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 15 2007,08:38)

I think that it was awfully hard for Paul to break with Jewish traditions. Just because Paul did it, and it is written that he did it, does not mean that God approved of it. Look what King David did. God did not approve, but he was still a man after God's own heart. Tim

Paul broke with Jewish tradition any opportunity he had. It was those darned judaizers who made him 'walk the talk'.

[Unisage]

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,23:01)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 15 2007,03:52) Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 15 2007,00:15) I have a question. What is the big deal in excepting the entire Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments as 100% truth from God? The advocating of stoning children to death would be a good start.  Or do you not accept this part of the 100%? Stuart Yes stuff like that was in there but isn't it interesting that the death penalty in in Israel is almost non-existent while in the 'Christian county' of USA it is still prevalent in many states? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Israel ========================================= In modern Israel, capital punishment is illegal in almost all circumstances. The death penalty was abolished in 1954 with the exceptions of conviction for treason during a time of war and genocide. Only one person has been civilly executed in the history of the modern State of Israel – Adolf Eichmann in 1962, after he was convicted in 1961 of participation in Nazi war crimes relating to the Holocaust. Others have been sentenced to death but won appeals to overturn the sentence. It is generally accepted that one of the reasons for Israel's rare use of the death penalty is Jewish religious law. However, there is some debate as to whether Jewish law forbids capital punishment. Biblical law explicitly mandates the death penalty for 36 offenses, from murder and rape to idolatry and desecration of the Sabbath. Still, Jewish scholars since the beginning of the common era have developed such restrictive rules to prevent execution of the innocent that the death penalty has become de facto illegal. Most modern Jewish religious leaders and scholars believe that the death penalty should remain unused. ============================================ Seems Jews know how to progress out of the 'stone ages'

So the point is that the Jewish people took upon them selves to move away from Moses Laws?

Lets have a Gay parade in Israel but you cant stone them to death because that was done in the stone ages?And Moses Laws are now over ridden because time has moved forward?

When did God laws change? And if God laws did change he better go back to the two cities he destroyed and say I am sorry..

It is not the point if the Jews progress out of the stone age.Its the point they moved away from there God..

[Towshab]

Uni,

So you advocate killing homosexuals? Are you ignorant enough to believe that S&G were destroyed because of gay men? Ypu may want to wring your brain out it is thoroughly washed.

[Unisage]

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 16 2007,02:30)

Uni, So you advocate killing homosexuals? Are you ignorant enough to believe that S&G were destroyed because of gay men? Ypu may want to wring your brain out it is thoroughly washed.

So are you saying it is ok tobe homosexual? Is it ok to have incest with animals as well? The Holiness Code for the Jews also included that children who cursed their parents should be put to death. Adultery for both parties were to be killed, as well as for incest, and etc. Why just pick same sex partners in 2007 to condem as sinners?? Abomination in the bible usually means something ritually impure, like eating pork, engaging in sexual relations at the time of a womans period. Abomination was used as a description of what a Gentile did, and was not considered as evil or a violation of the commandments. Man has used verses to control what they can't understand, and even when given clear concise explanations of Homosexuality by present day Medical authorities cling stubbornly to old history. Very sad.

Actually, according to the Torah, the punishment for violating just about all of the Ten Commandments was death. Funny how folks don't seem to want to display in schools that a child who disrespects his parents should be stoned to death.

[Unisage]

I dont have nothing against people life style..It dont matter to me if they are Gay or not..However you cant tell me the Jews at that time would not stone those who have same sex partners?

Maybe the Torah has to be revised to say it was ok for and Adam and Steve? The only thing they cant do is be fruitful and multiply…

[Unisage]

I dont know the real reason why God would destroy the two cities..It cant be just evil and they were worship a Idol..Those people didnt know the Laws of God…

Remember the Laws of God was given to Moses because no one knew the laws..

Also the Laws was given to the Hebrew people..But yet the Gentiles were sideline and was punish because they knew the difference?

[david]

GENESIS 13:13
“And the men of Sod′om were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah.”

GENESIS 18:20
“Consequently Jehovah said: “The cry of complaint about Sod′om and Go·mor′rah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy.”

GENESIS 19:4-5
“Before they could lie down, the men of the city, the men of Sod′om, surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob. And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: “Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intercourse with them.””

GENESIS 19:24-25
“Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens, upon Sod′om and upon Go·mor′rah. So he went ahead overthrowing these cities, even the entire District and all the inhabitants of the cities and the plants of the ground.”

Quote

I dont have nothing against people life style..It dont matter to me if they are Gay or not..

–unisage.

“O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.” (Psalm 97:10)

It seems to matter to God.

Regarding acts of homosexuality, God’s Word pointedly says: “This is a hateful thing.” (Leviticus 18:22, The New Jerusalem Bible)

God’s Law to Israel stipulated: “When a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail.” (Leviticus 20:13)

[Towshab]

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

Since less than 10% (most say 2-3% I think) of the modern generation is homosexual what chances are there that the whole male population of Sodom was homosexual?!? Please. Sodom was wicked for sure but their sin that night was attempted rape. If they were all gay, why would Lot even bother to offer his daughters?

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Wis 19:13 And punishments came upon the sinners not without former signs by the force of thunders: for they suffered justly according to their own wickedness, insomuch as they used a more hard and hateful behaviour toward strangers.
Wis 19:14 For the Sodomites did not receive those, whom they knew not when they came: but these brought friends into bondage, that had well deserved of them.

Even Jesus says in your GT

uk 10:10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
Luk 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Read Gen 34. The sons of Jacob killed every man in the town of a man that raped Dinah, Jacob's daughter. Why not condemn heterosexuals for this? I think that homosexuality is wrong but let's not pick and choose because we think we know G-d's motives.

[Stu]

Quote (david @ Nov. 16 2007,07:51)

“O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.” (Psalm 97:10) It seems to matter to God. Regarding acts of homosexuality, God’s Word pointedly says: “This is a hateful thing.” (Leviticus 18:22, The New Jerusalem Bible) God’s Law to Israel stipulated: “When a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Yes the Peculiar One does particularly seem very keen on persecuting (or ordering the death) of individuals of his own creation.

Stuart

PS: In case anyone is thinking of responding with “free will”, I ask you to stop and consider the huge variety of behaviours exhibited by different animals species and then tell me it is not your genes that have a major part in what you “choose” to do!

[942767]

Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 14 2007,22:45)

942767 Do you know that Tow does not believe in Jesus? What does scripture tell us about that? Does it not say that whoever does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ. So why would you want to have a conversation with Him? He is here to give us a hard time, and according to Mandy some have been hurt by it. So please in the name of God(Jesus) stop answering Him, Please, for our Brothers in Sisters in Christ. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs:

I answer Towshab and Stu hoping that they will see that Jesus is the Messiah and they will see what God has done for them in the person of Jesus and that they will be reconciled to God through him and be saved from the consequence of sin.

I was an unbeliever at one time myself and I believe that the scriptures state that all of humanity has been in unbelief at one time.

There is nothing that anyone can say to me that can sway me away from the fact that Jesus is the Messiah.  God through His Spirit living in me testifies to that fact.  Also, through my various personal experiences since my conversion experience leaves no way that any one can talk me out of what I know to be the truth.  

Also, Towshab gives reasons why Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah.  I want to know those reasons because I know that they are not valid.  When I talk to Tow, it helps me to study and learn.  I want to be able to show all of humanity, including Jews that Jesus is indeed the Messiah.

I do wonder if every one that professes to be a Christian on the forum has received the Holy Ghost.  They say that they believe, but by the Holy Ghost, I not only believe but I know for certainty that God is a reality and Jesus is His Son and His Christ and my Lord.

If you do not wish to anwer Towshab or Stu, that is your pre-rogative, but I intend to keep answering his questions hoping that he will convinced of the truth.

I do appreciate your concern.

God Bless

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Unisage @ Nov. 15 2007,02:18)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 15 2007,00:22) Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 14 2007,23:10) Christians in the Name of Jesus stop. Peace and Love Mrs. Hi Mrs, I said this in another thread but I am going to repeat it here. I admire your passion and respect your mission. You have pleaded with fellow Christians to stop answering tow or stu because they are anti Christs. The only place in scriptures that anti Christ is used is 1 John. The word is antichristos which means instead-anointed or not endued with the Holy Spirit. This includes fully half of all of my aquaintences, and sadly even some of my family. I not only could not stop communicating with all of these antichrists, I consider it my duty as a Christian to continue to do so. Somewhere towshab said that 2/3 of the world are antichrists. He is probably correct. We can not isolate ourselves from these people. Maybe God has sent them to this forum for a reason. Who knows? You are certainly free to continue on your mission Mrs. But please do not trouble or stress yourself unduly over the fact that other people continue to respond to stu and towshab. I worry about you. Tim   Back to top Well in one hand the Chritsians preach that some people are the Anti christ but in the other hand they contradict them selves. They quote from John about the AntiChrist.Who is really the Anti-Christ? Those who say that Jesus is God! John did not say that God came in the flesh but his SON! But yet there a millions that contradict John Words.. This is how you may recognize the spirit of God: Every spirit which acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is from God, and every spirit which does not thus acknowledge Jesus is not from God” (I John 4:2, II John 7). “Many deceivers have gone into the world who do not accept that Jesus came as a human being. Here is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Anything that goes aganist John words are contradiction..

unisage

Do you think that Thomas was the antichrist when he said this?

Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and *said unto him*, My Lord and my God.

Thomas *said unto him*. Not said unto them.

This would have been a blasphemous statement for Thomas to be calling Yeshua God.

Yet Yeshua does not rebuke nor correct him for his words but says…

Jn 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because *thou hast seen me*, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Wonder why Yeshua didnt say… “get thee behind me satan”?

[942767]

Hi Towshab:

You say:

Quote

3 problems with that: (1) blood sacrifice was for unintentional sins. ======================================= Lev 4:2 [ESV] “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If anyone sins unintentionally in any of the LORD's commandments about things not to be done, and does any one of them, Lev 4:3  if it is the anointed priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then he shall offer for the sin that he has committed a bull from the herd without blemish to the LORD for a sin offering. Lev 4:4  He shall bring the bull to the entrance of the tent of meeting before the LORD and lay his hand on the head of the bull and kill the bull before the LORD.

First, verse 4:3 which you quote states:

Quote

4:3  if it is the anointed priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then he shall offer for the sin that he has committed a bull from the herd without blemish to the LORD for a sin offering. Lev 4:4  He shall bring the bull to the entrance of the tent of meeting before the LORD and lay his hand on the head of the bull and kill the bull before the LORD.[/

 And so, this instruction is has to do with the Priest sinning and thereby causing the people to sin.  If the people sinned they were to bring a female goat or a female lamb the way that I read:

Quote

כז  וְאִם-נֶפֶשׁ אַחַת תֶּחֱטָא בִשְׁגָגָה, מֵעַם הָאָרֶץ:  בַּעֲשֹׂתָהּ אַחַת מִמִּצְו‍ֹת יְהוָה, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-תֵעָשֶׂינָה–וְאָשֵׁם.  27 And if any one of the common people sin through error, in doing any of the things which the LORD hath commanded not to be done, and be guilty:   כח  אוֹ הוֹדַע אֵלָיו, חַטָּאתוֹ אֲשֶׁר חָטָא–וְהֵבִיא קָרְבָּנוֹ שְׂעִירַת עִזִּים, תְּמִימָה נְקֵבָה, עַל-חַטָּאתוֹ, אֲשֶׁר חָטָא.  28 if his sin, which he hath sinned, be known to him, then he shall bring for his offering a goat, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.   כט  וְסָמַךְ, אֶת-יָדוֹ, עַל, רֹאשׁ הַחַטָּאת; וְשָׁחַט, אֶת-הַחַטָּאת, בִּמְקוֹם, הָעֹלָה.  29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin-offering, and kill the sin-offering in the place of burnt-offering.   ל  וְלָקַח הַכֹּהֵן מִדָּמָהּ, בְּאֶצְבָּעוֹ, וְנָתַן, עַל-קַרְנֹת מִזְבַּח הָעֹלָה; וְאֶת-כָּל-דָּמָהּ יִשְׁפֹּךְ, אֶל-יְסוֹד הַמִּזְבֵּחַ.  30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt-offering, and all the remaining blood thereof shall he pour out at the base of the altar.   לא  וְאֶת-כָּל-חֶלְבָּהּ יָסִיר, כַּאֲשֶׁר הוּסַר חֵלֶב מֵעַל זֶבַח הַשְּׁלָמִים, וְהִקְטִיר הַכֹּהֵן הַמִּזְבֵּחָה, לְרֵיחַ נִיחֹחַ לַיהוָה; וְכִפֶּר עָלָיו הַכֹּהֵן, וְנִסְלַח לוֹ.  {פ}  31 And all the fat thereof shall he take away, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace-offerings; and the priest shall make it smoke upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven. {P}   לב  וְאִם-כֶּבֶשׂ יָבִיא קָרְבָּנוֹ, לְחַטָּאת–נְקֵבָה תְמִימָה, יְבִיאֶנָּה.  32 And if he bring a lamb as his offering for a sin-offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.

But all of this was instruction to the Levitical Priesthood which is no longer in effect.  Are you presently offering animal sacrifce when you sin unintentionally?  When your temple is rebuilt, are you going to start doing this?  Is every one then going to have to own a herd of cattle, goats, or sheep in order to comply with this?

What does God accept from you for wilfull sins?

If this was to be what God wanted, why was the temple destroyed?  And why would there be a necessity for a new covenant with the House of Israel?

31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You say:

Quote

(3) Jesus does not qualify for a sin offering because he was not offered properly according to G-d's own commands [a] He was not an animal although he was called the 'lamb'. G-d detests human sacrifice. He was not offered by a priest of the line of Aaron (Levite) but was killed by Gentiles [c] His blood was not sprinkled on an altar in the prescribed place which would have been the temple in Jerusalem at that time [d] He was not cut up and burned after death as prescribed [e] Since Jesus was whipped and beaten before he died he did not qualify as a proper offering Lev 22:22 [ESV]  Animals blind or disabled or mutilated or having a discharge or an itch or scabs you shall not offer to the LORD or give them to the LORD as a food offering on the altar.

Jesus offered himself up wilfully in obedience to God.  And He is at the right hand of God in heaven, and so if God has accepted him and he has, I don't believe that it is wise to argue that He does not qualify.

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Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

God hates human sacrifice when you offer up your children to strange Gods, but if your child or mine offers himself up to God in obedience to God in the above manner, will he not accept this sacrifice.

Quote

Romans 12   1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

This is what God hates:

Quote

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

No, Jesus is not an animal.  He is the Son of the Living God and His Christ and God's gift of Love to humanity.  The blood of animals can never wash away your sin that is why under the Law Yom Kippur was repeated year after year.  For the Nation of Israel that was under the Law and striving to obey God by Faith, Jesus is that High Priest who has entered into the Holy of Holies not in the tabernacle on earth but into the very presence of God in heaven with blood, not for his own sins because he did no sin, but for the atonement of the sins of the whole Nation of Israel.  Therefore, the sins of every one who was of the Nation of Israel have been washed away by his blood, and they will be raised from dead by the Spirit of God at the coming of the Lord for the church.  This is a perfect sacrifice and will not have to be repeated every year as was the atonement at Yom Kippur when the tabernacle was on earth.

To all who come to God through Jesus by Faith with a repentant heart he is the Passover lamb of God without blemish whose blood when applied to the door posts of your house (your heart) will cause the death angel to pass over (you will pass from death unto life).

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Exodus 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in F31 the evening. 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

These are the “days of awe” where God is giving all a chance to believe the truth and come to Him with a repentant heart through the sacrifice that He has provided.  It is not because of your goodness or my goodness but because God of God's goodness.

Quote

John 10 – Study This Chapter   John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

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Ps 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Praise God for His love and His Mercy

[942767]

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,23:53)

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,11:28) Any have an explanation of this verse? Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: This verse goes hand in hand with this one Act 21:26  Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. No takers on these? Both speak of offerings given after Jesus' death. How can this be if Jesus paid it all? The word for 'gifts' in Hebrews 8:4 is 'doron' ====================================== G1435 δῶρον dōron do'-ron A present; specifically a sacrifice: – gift, offering. ====================================== The word for 'offering' in Acts 21:26 is 'prosphora' which also implies a sacrifice.

Hi Towshab:

Quote

Hebrews 8   1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, F22 and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man

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4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, F23 which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put F24 my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more

I believe the scriptures that I quoted above should answer your questions.  

As for what the Apostle Paul did, the following scriptures will explain:

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18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

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24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law

This is similar to what David did when he feigned that he was mad in the camp of the Philistines:

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1 Samuel 21:10 And David arose, and fled that day for fear of Saul, and went to Achish the king of Gath. 11 And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands? 12 And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. 13 And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled F119 on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard

Praise God for His Love and His Mercy

[942767]

Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,23:01)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 15 2007,03:52) Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 15 2007,00:15) I have a question. What is the big deal in excepting the entire Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments as 100% truth from God? The advocating of stoning children to death would be a good start.  Or do you not accept this part of the 100%? Stuart Yes stuff like that was in there but isn't it interesting that the death penalty in in Israel is almost non-existent while in the 'Christian county' of USA it is still prevalent in many states? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Israel ========================================= In modern Israel, capital punishment is illegal in almost all circumstances. The death penalty was abolished in 1954 with the exceptions of conviction for treason during a time of war and genocide. Only one person has been civilly executed in the history of the modern State of Israel – Adolf Eichmann in 1962, after he was convicted in 1961 of participation in Nazi war crimes relating to the Holocaust. Others have been sentenced to death but won appeals to overturn the sentence. It is generally accepted that one of the reasons for Israel's rare use of the death penalty is Jewish religious law. However, there is some debate as to whether Jewish law forbids capital punishment. Biblical law explicitly mandates the death penalty for 36 offenses, from murder and rape to idolatry and desecration of the Sabbath. Still, Jewish scholars since the beginning of the common era have developed such restrictive rules to prevent execution of the innocent that the death penalty has become de facto illegal. Most modern Jewish religious leaders and scholars believe that the death penalty should remain unused. ============================================ Seems Jews know how to progress out of the 'stone ages'

Hi Towshab:

Didn't you say that the whole law was still binding?

There were many offences that were captial offences under the Law.  The following is just one example:

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Exodus 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

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20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

But this is what Jesus replied to those who wanted to stone a woman to death because they caught her in the act of adultery:

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John 9:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Praise God for His Love and His Mercy

[Stu]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2007,13:25)

Quote John 9:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; … 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Praise God for His Love and His Mercy

Hang on, don't you mean praise Jesus for his mercy? Those following the word of god were about to stone her, (according to a section of what is “good to teach”!)

The woman was saved from god by Jesus.

Stuart

[Laurel]

I have news for everyone about His blood being poured out on the ark. There are tunnels (Solomon's caves) under the hill where Messiah died.

The ark was hidden in these caves 500 years before His death, when Nebuchadnezzars army burned it down and stole all the brass. The size of the brass caps on top of the pillars changes from 5 cubits before they disassembled it to 6 cubits after they dissasembled it. Also they did not find the ark or any of the gold.

There was a man, an engineer, from Tyre in egypt who was hired to build a lever. There was a covenant between Solomon and Hyram, Solomon took Hyrams daughter to be his wife and Hyre built the lever.

When Messiah was crucified the hill or mountain cracked! The soldier came over and stabbed Y'shua in His side. Water and blood flowed form Him and down that crack and sprinkled the side of the ark that no other blood had ever been permitted to touch!!!

The deciple who was a witness to all of this, while telling his version of the account, stops at that point and proclaims, “Now I have seen it with mine own eyes.

What did he see? Messiah blood annointing the man-made ark where the two tablets of the commandment are to this day!
Fulfilled all the shadow picture of the Passover lamb, and some day you will all know it too, but if you do see it before His return, it will be too late.

Laurel

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