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Quote How about debating with evidence that the other possible translation is either wrong because of… or is possible. –t8
We know it's “possible.” WJ's quote said that it was “possible” and “grammatically possible.” And many many many many trinitarians that I quoted agree completely.
If it can be translated either way, it is a matter of bias/what the rest of the Bible says.
Hence, this, like the other 18 trinity scriptures, is vague, foggy, unclear, and can be taken more than one way.
That is how I see the defence that Trinitarians use. At least the defence we see here.
There is not one scripture that plainly teaches the Trinity, just a handful of scriptures that can be read that way if you move or place commas where you want. Of course the same could be said about reading it as one God and Jesus as another, (which is my belief), but the difference is that there are plenty of scriptures that teach that clearly. So that would mean that the handful of scriptures that Trinitarians use would have to agree with the other scriptures that the one true God is the Father, otherwise they have the problem of conflict to deal with.
We don't have that problem of conflict as far as God being the Father and the son being of God.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 22 2009,03:53) Trinitarians use would have to agree with the other scriptures that the one true God is the Father, otherwise they have the problem of conflict to deal with.
This is not at all true! Trinitarians do not deny that the Father is the One True God, Just like we do not deny that there is only “One Lord”!It is the Polytheist and Henotheist that say there is more than “One theos” and “One Kurios”.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
Trinitarians believe in “Plurality of Unity” that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One! Much like when you take 2 candles and light one, they become one, yet same fire. Much like when you pour two glasses of water into one, they become one, yet the same water! All the fullness of Deity resides in Jesus in bodily form, just as all fullness of Deity is in the Father! The Father dwells in the Son and the Son dwells in the Father. They are One with the Holy Spirit proceeding from them!
Trinitarians believe you can only serve “One Master” and have only One Master and Lord! Jude 1:4, 5.
Anything more than that is idolatry! The conflict is yours!
WJ
hi all
this is just a thought the scriptures are made for the righteous and guided by truth of the spirit of Christ ,they will understand the word Of God because they look for the true mesage ,not the confused one,
the word cannot be broken,God is the same now and for ever,God cannot lie,on those three principals the trinity falseQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2009,16:59) hi all
this is just a thought the scriptures are made for the righteous and guided by truth of the spirit of Christ ,they will understand the word Of God because they look for the true mesage ,not the confused one,
the word cannot be broken,God is the same now and for ever,God cannot lie,on those three principals the trinity falseQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2009,16:59) God is the same now and for ever,God cannot lie,on those three principals the trinity false
Here try this…Close your eyes and put your feet together. Now tap your heals together three times and say “There is no Trinity” “There is no Trinity” “There is no Trinity” and see if that makes it so!
Seriously, you claim there is no Trinity yet you have not expounded on one verse of scripture that proves there isn't!
Grow up!
WJ
Hi WJ
is that what you do wen you get frustrated? i may try it some times not now
you believe in trinty 3=1 or 1=3 this is not the God in the scriptures you are not preocupied with the truth but with your personal believes
and by doing so you follow men.hi WJ
i don't have to grow up,i don't even need all the info and men findings or knowledge to understand the truth of God,the only thing you need is the spirit of Christ of cause you do not know what that is anyway.Hey guys. what do you say we make a concerted effort to stay on topic. (I'll just abandon this thread and start a duplicate anyway.)
hi david
you figthing the devil war and this will not accomplish God glory,because what ever you say or do WJ will stay on is grounds so you will not accomplish Christ will.your faith is to help the believer not the unbelievers ,he say s you don't see,so this means he can see ,he his like us in judgement before God and Christ for the words we speak about the Son of God.this is what i see from all the quotes i seen
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2009,17:52) hi WJ
i don't have to grow up,i don't even need all the info and men findings or knowledge to understand the truth of God,the only thing you need is the spirit of Christ of cause you do not know what that is anyway.
tHow do you know what my relationship with God is?
How do you know I do not have the Spirit of Christ?
Do you know what the Spirit of Christ is?
Stop making accusations and join in the debate. Give me some scripture for your belief!
WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2009,18:30) hi david
you figthing the devil war and this will not accomplish God glory,because what ever you say or do WJ will stay on is grounds so you will not accomplish Christ will.your faith is to help the believer not the unbelievers ,he say s you don't see,so this means he can see ,he his like us in judgement before God and Christ for the words we speak about the Son of God.this is what i see from all the quotes i seen
TAh, some I am being used of the devil now?
Why because I disagree with you and David?
You accuse me and assume that I am of the devil, well that is what they said about Jesus too.
We know who “The accuser of the brethren is”!
WJ
hi WJ
i am glad you ask,how those a catholic ,trinitarian have knowledge of the Spirit of christ,
would it by there teachings of marie mother of god? or by glorifying the meurder weapon (the Cross)in stead of Christ?
or the idols in there temples(churches).or is it by there fruits they have produce during the dark ages? or is it because the worship the pope instead of God?Christ had a choice between the whealth of the world or the whorship of God he chooce his GOD,
the pope choose the gold.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2009,08:49) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 22 2009,03:53) Trinitarians use would have to agree with the other scriptures that the one true God is the Father, otherwise they have the problem of conflict to deal with.
This is not at all true! Trinitarians do not deny that the Father is the One True God, Just like we do not deny that there is only “One Lord”!It is the Polytheist and Henotheist that say there is more than “One theos” and “One Kurios”.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
Trinitarians believe in “Plurality of Unity” that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One! Much like when you take 2 candles and light one, they become one, yet same fire. Much like when you pour two glasses of water into one, they become one, yet the same water! All the fullness of Deity resides in Jesus in bodily form, just as all fullness of Deity is in the Father! The Father dwells in the Son and the Son dwells in the Father. They are One with the Holy Spirit proceeding from them!
Trinitarians believe you can only serve “One Master” and have only One Master and Lord! Jude 1:4, 5.
Anything more than that is idolatry! The conflict is yours!
WJ
Hi WJ:They are one in the spirit, but the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, and they are not co-equal.
There is only “ONE God”, and He is above all.Quote Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And the Holy Spirit is not a “third person” of a Tri-une God, but is the Spirit of God our Father.
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.God made man in His own image, and Jesus is the express image of His person, and it is in this sense that he is God. He has said “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. And he has been exalted and given all power over heaven and earth watching over the Word of God, that which God spoke to humanity through him, and that which he obeyed without sin unto death on the cross, to perform it.
Love in Christ,
Martyhi WJ
that scripture is true but i cannot call you my brother in the faith we do not have the same faith,i think you will understand.Hi and welcome Jan,
You want to search this verse?Now the Lord is the Spirit.[2Cor 3.17]
The anointing is of God and eternal.Just a brief comment on Heb.1:8. The correct translation of that verse is… 8 Yet to the Son: “Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon, And a scepter of rectitude is the scepter of Thy kingdom”.
The eon is the longest segment of time in the Greek scriptures, there are seven of them, four are past, we are in the present eon (the wicked eon), two are yet future.One just need ask why are some translated “for ever and ever”? Surely 'for ever' is never ending, so why add 'and ever'?
Also, if it meant “for ever”, it would contadict the scripture in 1Cor.15:24-28. 24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
He, Jesus, will only be reigning until the “consummation” as described.I don't want to comment on the “trinity” debate, I feel there is enough said already.
God Bless.
PS. I use the “Concordant Version” of scripture, I believe this is the most accurate translation. I won't go into detail, and/or the method of how this version was translated. But if any are interested, their website explains it in detail. (www.concordant.org)
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