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This is a response to https://heavennet.net/answers/answer30.htm:
Quote Once I was a staunch believer in evolution and now that I look back, I can see that evolution to me was a crutch. Even though I knew it was only a theory, I believed it more because of convenience and peer presure rather than sound logic. You see if evolution were true, then it means that we are responsible to no one and we can do whatever we want with no fear of judgement of sin when our lives on earth have expired.
Evolution is our best explanation for the variety of species present on earth. There is no reasonable conclusion to be made from the fact of evolution about responsibility or judgement.Quote I think that I used evolution as a crutch to support my sinful lifestyle and I also think that when I faced up to my responsibility before God and other people, then that was the time in my life when I threw the crutch away and became a responsible person.
What people may use evolutionary theory for bears no relation on whether it is true or not. Evolution by natural selection does not logically lead to crackpot ideas like Social Darwinism.Quote Other people say that God is an explanation for people who cannot understand science or grasp the theory of evolution. Of course I also strongly disagree with such people. It is true that a degree of intelligence is involved in order to understand some scientific principles and theories. But we have to acknowledge that evolution is still called a theory because it has never been proven and as just because someone doesn't believe in this particular theory doesn't mean that they do not understand it, infact it is the fact that I understand this theory that leads me to disbelieve this huge stretch of the imagination.
In science a theory represents the best explanation we have. It is more correct to say that the fact of evolution is explained by the Theory of Natural Selection. You cannot prove any theory, but you can disprove one if it has a necessary condition called falsifiability. Evolution by Natural Selection is falsifiable. Since it was first proposed in 1859, no one has disproved, or falsified evolution by Natural Selection. You can disbelieve it, but you have to ignore an increasingly large body of evidence that supports it. It is also important to note that the detractors of this theory all have two things in common. The first is (almost universally) a religious reason for disbelieving, or attempting to discredit evolutionary theory, and the second is a lack of an alternative explanation. There is no theory of Divine Creation.Quote Now certain so-called intellectuals deny the existence of God and have built a whole structure of theories on this precept. Yet to this day their theories change constantly because of new scientific knowledge and this seems acceptable to many in the scientific community. But if you really look at the truth, you will see that all those scientists were really deceived, because the new theory proved the previous one incorrect and what makes you think that the most up todate theory today, is not going to be proven wrong in a few years. However the truth that all design warrants a designer and every house is built by someone acknowledges a creator and this simple and timeless logic was true, is true and will be true in the future.
There is no theory of the non-existence of god. Science cannot prove a negative. It is essential, indeed the main strength of the scientific method that a theory will change in the light of new evidence. On the subject of design, it may be true that designed objects owe their existence to a designer, but it is not true that living things are designed. The argument from design with regard to living things was most notably promoted by William Paley in the Nineteenth Century, and was subsequently shown to be false by Darwin, Wallace and others not long after.Quote You know the story about the Emperor who wore no clothes, well the moral of that story was that it took a simple and honest child to speak the truth against all the intellectual pride of the adult world. Now imagine for a moment, the whole universe including the microscopic world in one moment if you can and think about the immense amount of logic and technology involved. Then try to imagine that this wonderful creation made itself by blind chance. If you really believe that foolishness, then you are just like that naked emperor. Your ignorance and pride is your nakedness and in the light of truth you look like a fool.
Notwithstanding that the author chooses to insult his dissenting reader, the explanations for stellar and planetary evolution, and for biological evolution are well developed and none refer to ‘blind chance’ as a mechanism. Indeed natural selection has only one element of blind chance, that of what mutations will occur in the genome. The rest is a selection process that is undirected but nevertheless quite efficient in making use of the new possibilities afforded by those genetic mutations from which it selects. It is not perfect though, and our bodies are full of vestigial features that are remnants of our evolutionary past, still made but largely useless.The story of the Emperor’s new clothes is ironically misused here, for very often it is the arguments of those who deny scientific theory who are guilty of praising that which isn’t there.
Stuart
A useful and relevant resource is to be found at http://www.talkorigins.org
Hi Stu,
For someone who pleads science as the only basis for truth
you have a huge reliance on your own opinion
and no respect for that of others.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,04:25) Hi Stu,
For someone who pleads science as the only basis for truth
you have a huge reliance on your own opinion
and no respect for that of others.
When it comes to finding truth I have little time for opinion. If you can't deal with reality then what are you left with? A fantasy world to live in?Stuart
Hi stu,
Blind people do not live in a fantasy world and yet they cannot see.
The deaf do not live in a fantsay world despite the silence.
You should really go beyond your puny senses.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,09:18) Hi stu,
Blind people do not live in a fantasy world and yet they cannot see.
The deaf do not live in a fantsay world despite the silence.
You should really go beyond your puny senses.
This is fantasy world stuff. Science does go beyond puny human senses by using microscopes, telescopes, spectroscopes and many other kinds of tools. If you mean that there is somehow something deeper going on then I challenge you to explain exactly what it is and stop trotting out the 'eternal mysteries' nonsense. There is nothing else there. You have been kidded or else you are out to kid others, or both. You do not accept the possiblity that you have been deluded by your beliefs, and therefore they are pretty useless, certainly to others trying to understand you.Stuart
Many of us feel that if anything science highlights the intricacies and the glory of God's creation rather then denies it. While Stuart may dismiss this opinion, I think we can agree that only those of a medieval mentality equate the theories of science with heresy or devil worship. I'd have hoped by now we were past Galileo.
Hi cato,
I agree. I would go further and say that those who are blessed by being shown how wonderful is the creation of God have less excuse for ignoring His call.Quote (Cato @ Feb. 04 2008,06:58) Many of us feel that if anything science highlights the intricacies and the glory of God's creation rather then denies it. While Stuart may dismiss this opinion, I think we can agree that only those of a medieval mentality equate the theories of science with heresy or devil worship. I'd have hoped by now we were past Galileo.
And My hope has been that Christians should be Christians and not Atheist. Or believe in their theory. There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion. And neither should those that confess to be a Christian. Love them yes, but agree with them, no. What does light have to do with darkness. Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2008,09:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,04:25) Hi Stu,
For someone who pleads science as the only basis for truth
you have a huge reliance on your own opinion
and no respect for that of others.
When it comes to finding truth I have little time for opinion. If you can't deal with reality then what are you left with? A fantasy world to live in?Stuart
he he.Truth proclaimed from a man with less than .0000000000000001% of all knowledge in the universe and an understanding confined within 3 dimensions.
It is only ignorance that such a being with limited ability can say this.
Who is in the fantasy world? The one who acknowledges by faith that there are realms and beings beyond our planet in a cluster of planets around a solar system of which there are billions in our galaxy alone, and billions of galaxies in a universe that is but a mere creation contained within a greater realm still. Or the guy who says there is not no God and we are intelligent apes, all came about by processes which have no designer, and can I have a banana please.
Quote Truth proclaimed from a man with less than .0000000000000001% of all knowledge in the universe and an understanding confined within 3 dimensions. It is only ignorance that such a being with limited ability can say this.
And to what number of dimensions and extent is your knowledge confined, t8?Quote Who is in the fantasy world? The one who acknowledges by faith that there are realms and beings beyond our planet in a cluster of planets around a solar system of which there are billions in our galaxy alone, and billions of galaxies in a universe that is but a mere creation contained within a greater realm still.
Yes, I think that is fantasy. Faith is pretty useless at actually finding out whether there really are such beings, or universes outside our own. You don’t know any more than I do. Your god is created in the image of man. Judging by what you write, I think I might have more of an idea about the contents of the universe than you.Quote Or the guy who says there is not no God and we are intelligent apes, all came about by processes which have no designer, and can I have a banana please.
Some of us are intelligent apes.It looks like you have a willing choir to preach to t8. Do you think they might start to worship you too?
Stuart
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 04 2008,07:15) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 04 2008,06:58) Many of us feel that if anything science highlights the intricacies and the glory of God's creation rather then denies it. While Stuart may dismiss this opinion, I think we can agree that only those of a medieval mentality equate the theories of science with heresy or devil worship. I'd have hoped by now we were past Galileo.
And My hope has been that Christians should be Christians and not Atheist. Or believe in their theory. There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion. And neither should those that confess to be a Christian. Love them yes, but agree with them, no. What does light have to do with darkness. Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.
Dear Seek,You wrote,
“There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion.”We should look at science and its theories based on whether their work is solid and their ideas well thought out, not whether they are believers. The same should be with Stuart's words, judged by the merits or lack thereof of his words not because of a lack of faith or belief. I previously brought up Galileo before because Christians of his time castigated him for theories we now all accept as fact.
“What does light have to do with darkness.”
The purpose of light is to illuminate the darkness. Even the dark is not in itself evil but merely unrevealed potential. It is the light that gives energy to bringing this unrevealed potential into action.
“Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.”
If it is blasphemy then he will be held in account as will we all for our actions. Yet remember Stuart does not curse God because he does not believe in God. Perhaps if we did a better job representing the Creator Stuart may someday come around. Or perhaps if we afforded him more personal respect, he would in turn show more for our beliefs even if he was skepitcal.
Hi,
The opponents of scriptural truth cause us to pause in our walk at times but they should not stop us opening further the revelation of God that we may learn truth and discover together the secrets of the future.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 04 2008,18:38) And to what number of dimensions and extent is your knowledge confined, t8
About the same as you. Maybe more maybe less, but in the scale of things, we are on the same plane for now.That said, I may only possess, a small amount of knowledge compared to all knowledge, but I know that bananas exist. So you don't have to be all knowing to know that something exists. This goes for God too. However, you do have to be all knowing to say that something doesn't exist.
Quote Some of us are intelligent apes. OK your an ape, I am not arguing about that.
Quote It looks like you have a willing choir to preach to t8. Do you think they might start to worship you too? If anyone was silly enough to do that, then they obviously are not listening to what I am saying.
Quote (Cato @ Feb. 05 2008,02:19) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 04 2008,07:15) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 04 2008,06:58) Many of us feel that if anything science highlights the intricacies and the glory of God's creation rather then denies it. While Stuart may dismiss this opinion, I think we can agree that only those of a medieval mentality equate the theories of science with heresy or devil worship. I'd have hoped by now we were past Galileo.
And My hope has been that Christians should be Christians and not Atheist. Or believe in their theory. There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion. And neither should those that confess to be a Christian. Love them yes, but agree with them, no. What does light have to do with darkness. Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.
Dear Seek,You wrote,
“There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion.”We should look at science and its theories based on whether their work is solid and their ideas well thought out, not whether they are believers. The same should be with Stuart's words, judged by the merits or lack thereof of his words not because of a lack of faith or belief. I previously brought up Galileo before because Christians of his time castigated him for theories we now all accept as fact.
“What does light have to do with darkness.”
The purpose of light is to illuminate the darkness. Even the dark is not in itself evil but merely unrevealed potential. It is the light that gives energy to bringing this unrevealed potential into action.
“Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.”
If it is blasphemy then he will be held in account as will we all for our actions. Yet remember Stuart does not curse God because he does not believe in God. Perhaps if we did a better job representing the Creator Stuart may someday come around. Or perhaps if we afforded him more personal respect, he would in turn show more for our beliefs even if he was skepitcal.
Whatever you do and say to Stu is up to you, as you can see others do talk to Him. I just prefer not to and see it to be wrong for me to do. What you do is your responsibility. With that said I will end this conversation with you.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 05 2008,15:31) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 05 2008,02:19) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 04 2008,07:15) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 04 2008,06:58) Many of us feel that if anything science highlights the intricacies and the glory of God's creation rather then denies it. While Stuart may dismiss this opinion, I think we can agree that only those of a medieval mentality equate the theories of science with heresy or devil worship. I'd have hoped by now we were past Galileo.
And My hope has been that Christians should be Christians and not Atheist. Or believe in their theory. There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion. And neither should those that confess to be a Christian. Love them yes, but agree with them, no. What does light have to do with darkness. Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.
Dear Seek,You wrote,
“There are scientist that believe in God, but others do not. Stuart does not, therefore I will not go with His opinion.”We should look at science and its theories based on whether their work is solid and their ideas well thought out, not whether they are believers. The same should be with Stuart's words, judged by the merits or lack thereof of his words not because of a lack of faith or belief. I previously brought up Galileo before because Christians of his time castigated him for theories we now all accept as fact.
“What does light have to do with darkness.”
The purpose of light is to illuminate the darkness. Even the dark is not in itself evil but merely unrevealed potential. It is the light that gives energy to bringing this unrevealed potential into action.
“Stuart has made fun of our fairy in the Sky, He calls our God.”
If it is blasphemy then he will be held in account as will we all for our actions. Yet remember Stuart does not curse God because he does not believe in God. Perhaps if we did a better job representing the Creator Stuart may someday come around. Or perhaps if we afforded him more personal respect, he would in turn show more for our beliefs even if he was skepitcal.
Whatever you do and say to Stu is up to you, as you can see others do talk to Him. I just prefer not to and see it to be wrong for me to do. What you do is your responsibility. With that said I will end this conversation with you.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Do you think I am evil, Mrs.IM4Truth?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 05 2008,09:43) Hi,
The opponents of scriptural truth cause us to pause in our walk at times but they should not stop us opening further the revelation of God that we may learn truth and discover together the secrets of the future.
I'm not a fan of Pascal's Wager in any form, but what if you are wrong? What if the message of your god is delivered through people like Charles Darwin and Carl Sagan, and not through Jesus, the stories of whom are invented by Lucifer?
Have you actually heard god tell you personally what book to read?Stuart
Quote … I may only possess, a small amount of knowledge compared to all knowledge, but I know that bananas exist. So you don't have to be all knowing to know that something exists. This goes for God too. However, you do have to be all knowing to say that something doesn't exist.
Neither of us deny the existence of fruit. You claim the existence of something that is very much disputed, that is not supported by any evidence. You must know that you are not being misled by some quirk of your brain chemistry, or perhaps misguided by the effect of your genes. That would mean you have knowledge of such things to a vastly greater extent than all the neuroscientists and geneticists in the world. The same cannot be said for me. My claims are completely consistent with all we observe. As we can't know what we can't observe, anything else is sophistry. To say there is no god is to make a provisional conclusion based on the evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You supply none. I know there is a god called Zeus (you can't disprove it) who will get to you before your god does and will make you pay for your blasphemy.Stuart
If you never saw a fruit that is green, real big, and boomerang shaped, then you might not believe me that such exists, but I have seen one and eaten it. It is called a Guama.
Likewise I have experienced God in ways that you wouldn't believe if I told you.
But sure you might not believe my testimony and that is fine. Likewise if you haven't seen or tasted a fruit of that description, then being skeptical is only natural. But to say outrightly that such a fruit doesn't exit, is really an illogical and probably arrogant thing to say.
The bottom line is that if you cannot disprove something, then you are allowed an opinion, but to shut out the possibility is surely limiting to your own pursuit of knowledge.
Have you noticed that people who shut out possibilities, never usually attain those possibilities? History is full of incidences where men shut out possibilities and history judges them as ignoramuses.
- The earth doesn't revolve around the sun.
- If man was meant to fly, God would have given us wings.
- Why should we buy Google, we don't need them. – Yahoo execs said this when they had the chance to buy Google. In fact Google offered Yahoo to invest in them and Yahoo turned them down.
I put “there is no God” in the same category, except to say it is a bigger blunder than all other blunders put together.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 05 2008,21:10) I know there is a god called Zeus (you can't disprove it) who will get to you before your god does and will make you pay for your blasphemy.
This argument is pointless because it is not about who is God, but that God exists or he doesn't.Likewise we are not arguing about Piltdown man as being the missing link. Rather we are looking at Evolution and Creation.
So every time you bring up Zues as some kind of argument that proves that there is no God, then also remember that you are doing the same as saying “Piltdown Man disproves all of Evolution”, which I am sure that you would not do.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 05 2008,20:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 05 2008,09:43) Hi,
The opponents of scriptural truth cause us to pause in our walk at times but they should not stop us opening further the revelation of God that we may learn truth and discover together the secrets of the future.
I'm not a fan of Pascal's Wager in any form, but what if you are wrong? What if the message of your god is delivered through people like Charles Darwin and Carl Sagan, and not through Jesus, the stories of whom are invented by Lucifer?
Have you actually heard god tell you personally what book to read?Stuart
Hi Stu,
It is not scientific to set out to disprove something. An honest scientist will never deny the possibility that what he believes may not be so as he sets up his experiments. You should be an honest scientist if that is your basis of truth.It is not ours of course.
We have come to know by faith certain things. The bible is the revelation of God and we love it and study it assiduously in that light.
The Jews wanted Jesus to do some fancy miracles so they could judge whether he was who he said he was. He refused to do so. Instead he promised the sign of Jonah, that he would be resurrected.
Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, ” An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;That is not enough for many either.
Lk 16
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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