Have or have not

[Jesus name follower of Christ]

IF YOU CANT BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAW(AS SOME SAY I CANT BELIEVE THAT YOU DID THAT, BUT THEY SAW YO DO IT) HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU HAVE NOT SEEN?

MORE BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN AND DO BELIEVE

[Stu]

So says the snake oil salesman: don't worry about whether the claims are true, just blindly believe (and keep buying the snake oil).

Stuart

[Jesus name follower of Christ]

we know Christ's claims are true

[Stu]

Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 22 2009,03:33)

we know Christ's claims are true

You don't know for sure he existed. How can you know what he claimed?

Stuart

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 21 2009,11:33)

we know Christ's claims are true

Hi

You have to understand that STU thinks he is some sort of God that he can possibly know what everyone else knows, thinks or experiences!

I look for him to start up his own cult and charge people for his indisputable knowledge of the secrets in the minds and hearts of millions of believers all over the world.

If he wears his avatar it would be quite a circus don't you think?

His snake example is a sure sign of his vanity. For one cannot know for sure if the snake oil doesn't work if he hasn't purchased it for himself unless he has “faith” that it doesn't based on the words of someone else.

The funny thing is it appears he has more faith than anyone on this board.

WJ

[Stu]

WJ

I do not need to try your snake oil to observe that it has no real effect on those who claim it DOES have an effect. I doubt very much you can articulate any act of 'good' that is universally considered to be such, that can ONLY be achieved by a christian. I don't think you can demonstrate that there is any such thing as 'eternal life'. I don't think you can find anywhere that I have claimed my knowledge is 'indisputable'. It is very disputable, but you have not managed to dispute any of it yet.

Who are you trying to impress here?

Stuart

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Stu @ July 21 2009,19:02)

WJ I do not need to try your snake oil to observe that it has no real effect on those who claim it DOES have an effect.  I doubt very much you can articulate any act of 'good' that is universally considered to be such, that can ONLY be achieved by a christian.  I don't think you can demonstrate that there is any such thing as 'eternal life'.  I don't think you can find anywhere that I have claimed my knowledge is 'indisputable'.  It is very disputable, but you have not managed to dispute any of it yet. Who are you trying to impress here? Stuart

Hi STU

Quote (Stu @ July 21 2009,19:02)

It is very disputable, but you have not managed to dispute any of it yet.

You must be blind for I just did. Your claim to know what is in the hearts and minds of millions of believers is disputed unless you can prove you are God!

WJ

[Stu]

There are no gods. How could being a god be a prerequisite to knowing the contents of another's head?

Stuart

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Stu @ July 21 2009,20:56)

There are no gods.  How could being a god be a prerequisite to knowing the contents of another's head? Stuart

STU

But you claim that everyone who claims to have experienced God and has a relationship with him are basically lying.

You can only know for sure that what they are saying is not true if you were God and could see into their inner most heart and mind!

WJ

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,02:59)

Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 22 2009,03:33) we know Christ's claims are true You don't know for sure he existed.  How can you know what he claimed? Stuart

Does Stu really exist? After all since he says everything comes from nothing, so I believe his posts are really just random pulses coalescing into what appears to be semi-intelligence. We can rest assured however that most of the claims from these random pulses really have no more meaning then they have attributed to real people far better documented then this “Stu” whom I maintain does not exist.

[Stu]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 22 2009,13:30)

Quote (Stu @ July 21 2009,20:56) There are no gods.  How could being a god be a prerequisite to knowing the contents of another's head? Stuart STU But you claim that everyone who claims to have experienced God and has a relationship with him are basically lying. You can only know for sure that what they are saying is not true if you were God and could see into their inner most heart and mind! WJ

Not lying, deluded.

What they perceive, and their interpretation of it, are delusions of something that is not there.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,13:35)

Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,02:59) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 22 2009,03:33) we know Christ's claims are true You don't know for sure he existed.  How can you know what he claimed? Stuart Does Stu really exist? After all since he says everything comes from nothing, so I believe his posts are really just random pulses coalescing into what appears to be semi-intelligence. We can rest assured however that most of the claims from these random pulses really have no more meaning then they have attributed to real people far better documented then this “Stu” whom I maintain does not exist.

It is not really that important to you whether I exist or not. It is a matter of language and symbolism as to what you might imagine causes all this intelligent typing. However if you respect evidence, then there has to be someone typing here, or a robot, or something, doesn't there. So already the evidence for the existence of Stu, whatever he or it might be, is overwhelming compared to the evidence for your god.

Stuart

[Jesus name follower of Christ]

lets jst try to get along

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,09:11)

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,13:35) Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,02:59) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 22 2009,03:33) we know Christ's claims are true You don't know for sure he existed.  How can you know what he claimed? Stuart Does Stu really exist? After all since he says everything comes from nothing, so I believe his posts are really just random pulses coalescing into what appears to be semi-intelligence. We can rest assured however that most of the claims from these random pulses really have no more meaning then they have attributed to real people far better documented then this “Stu” whom I maintain does not exist. It is not really that important to you whether I exist or not.  It is a matter of language and symbolism as to what you might imagine causes all this intelligent typing.  However if you respect evidence, then there has to be someone typing here, or a robot, or something, doesn't there.  So already the evidence for the existence of Stu, whatever he or it might be, is overwhelming compared to the evidence for your god. Stuart

So what your saying is written evidence by an unknown source is sufficient to prove the existence of Stu but not Jesus.

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,15:48)

Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,09:11) Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,13:35) Quote (Stu @ July 22 2009,02:59) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 22 2009,03:33) we know Christ's claims are true You don't know for sure he existed.  How can you know what he claimed? Stuart Does Stu really exist? After all since he says everything comes from nothing, so I believe his posts are really just random pulses coalescing into what appears to be semi-intelligence. We can rest assured however that most of the claims from these random pulses really have no more meaning then they have attributed to real people far better documented then this “Stu” whom I maintain does not exist. It is not really that important to you whether I exist or not.  It is a matter of language and symbolism as to what you might imagine causes all this intelligent typing.  However if you respect evidence, then there has to be someone typing here, or a robot, or something, doesn't there.  So already the evidence for the existence of Stu, whatever he or it might be, is overwhelming compared to the evidence for your god. Stuart So what your saying is written evidence by an unknown source is sufficient to prove the existence of Stu but not Jesus.

Hold on there! I just said the fact that there is writing is evidence that there is a writer, which is more evidence than there is for any god. We have not yet discussed the word 'proof' which is not a standard any of us can reach anyway (except in mathematics).

Jesus is a different matter again. The NT claims to provide evidence for Jesus, but because of its assertion (when treated as a single document) of things that cannot be tested and of other things that have been disproved, it cannot be trusted on matters of historicity. You need credible corroborating sources and in the case of Jesus such things are very thin on the ground. There has also been meddling with those other sources by early christians, to the extent that it is not possible to confirm Jesus as an actual historical figure with much reliability.

But it does not matter whether Jesus really existed or not. Why should it?

Stuart

[seekingtruth]

Quote

So already the evidence for the existence of Stu, whatever he or it might be, is overwhelming compared to the evidence for your god.

Quote

I just said the fact that there is writing is evidence that there is a writer, which is more evidence than there is for any god

Which statement is true? It was your words I was quoting.
I would argue that you see design all around, yet you deny a creator so why not deny a writer.

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,17:23)

Quote So already the evidence for the existence of Stu, whatever he or it might be, is overwhelming compared to the evidence for your god. Quote I just said the fact that there is writing is evidence that there is a writer, which is more evidence than there is for any god Which statement is true? It was your words I was quoting. I would argue that you see design all around, yet you deny a creator so why not deny a writer.

Both statements are true.

The fact that you see design all around is no reason to think that there is any design there. For there to be writing, an attempt by one member of a species to communicate with another member, requires that some gradual process has resulted in the two members of the species in the first place. So in this way writing is a product of natural selection, a feature known as an extended phenotype. Is the writing design? We would call it that, but we ourselves were not designed.

Stuart

[seekingtruth]

So what your saying is that the comparably simple requirements for random pulses to create the writing for these “Stu” posts, requires intelligence, but the infinitely more complexity of the world around us just happens…

[Jesus name follower of Christ]

well if just writing is truth then all writings are true, but there is some who jst write stories

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 22 2009,21:36)

So what your saying is that the comparably simple requirements for random pulses to create the writing for these “Stu” posts, requires intelligence, but the infinitely more complexity of the world around us just happens…

No, I would expect t8 to say that.

Intelligence is what we call the actions of humans who arose by natural selection. The world around us is not more complex than the brain inside us, on the whole.

Stuart

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