- This topic is empty.
- Posts
So tell me Nick, if God explained a Scripture to you in a way that was contrary to your understanding, would you tell God He was wrong or would you see the Scriptures in a different light?
Quote (Oxy @ July 11 2010,18:18) So tell me Nick, if God explained a Scripture to you in a way that was contrary to your understanding, would you tell God He was wrong or would you see the Scriptures in a different light?
Hi Oxy,Are you telling us you are ready to learn now? (Luke 21:13-15)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Oxy,
Scripture interprets scripture.[2Cor13.1]
We try not to let our understandings intrude.Testing the spirits is necessary as many deceptive spirits pose as the Holy Spirit.
So we must find scriptural support-test all things and hold fast to what is good.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2010,20:40) Hi Oxy,
Scripture interprets scripture.[2Cor13.1]
We try not to let our understandings intrude.Testing the spirits is necessary as many deceptive spirits pose as the Holy Spirit.
So we must find scriptural support-test all things and hold fast to what is good.
So if Scripture interprets Scripture, why do we have the Holy Spirit as our teacher?Quote (lamontre @ June 13 2007,02:03) Thought I would post this here; 
Has anyone seen God or not?
Exodus 24:9-11, Exodus 33:11; Exodus 6:2-3, John 1:18Has seen
(Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty , but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”
(Num. 12:6-8) – “He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision . I shall speak with him in a dream. 7″Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses ?”
(Acts 7:2), “And he [Stephen] said, “Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . ”
Has not seen
(Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
(John 5:37) – “”And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
(John 6:46) – “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
(1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion ! Amen.”
It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the “can't-see-God” verses, some would understandably argue that there would be a contradiction. One explanation offered is that the people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26; Judges 13:1-21) and not really God Himself. But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3).
At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible–which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.
The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father. This is typically how John writes of God: as a reference to the Father. We see this verified in Jesus own words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.
Since the trinity is non-Biblical, we must go to scriptures to find the answers.Romans 1:20 is an intriguing verse because it uses both concepts in it. Both invisible and visible. This may be the fulcrum of understanding the situation. “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,[visible], being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”
What we can learn, or see of God's creative works indicate to us that God is eternally powerful and that He is the head God.
People like Abraham saw this and believed. Likewise, because they believed, God was able to give them more specific instruction. Those that did not choose to believe is the context of this verse in Romans.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2010,18:20) Hi Oxy,
How does it feel with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears?
Nick, why would you say that? It makes no sense to me other to suggest that you are being antagonistic.I speak the truth as God has revealed it to me. I am happy for Him to judge me on that. You on the other hand should not judge me.
Hi Oxy,
No you live in the past.
Walk while the light is with you.
Building tabernacles to experiences is folly.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2010,19:28) Hi Oxy,
No you live in the past.
Walk while the light is with you.
Building tabernacles to experiences is folly.
I'm sure you think you know Nick. You just hang on to that.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2010,20:00) Hi OXY,
God had a son.
YOU ARE THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD
Yeah, I think I had that pretty well sussed back in 1978Hi Oxy,
If you had it sussed in your past why have you not taken to heart that Jesus is the Son of God and Mary enlivened by God's Spirit?
This three part god is of man.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2010,20:42) Hi Oxy,
If you had it sussed in your past why have you not taken to heart that Jesus is the Son of God and Mary enlivened by God's Spirit?
This three part god is of man.
Nick, you talk a load of nonsense once again presuming that you know what I think, when it is obvious that you don'tQuote (942767 @ June 13 2007,12:41) Quote (lamontre @ June 13 2007,03:03) Thought I would post this here; Has anyone seen God or not?
Exodus 24:9-11, Exodus 33:11; Exodus 6:2-3, John 1:18Has seen
(Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty , but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”
(Num. 12:6-8) – “He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision . I shall speak with him in a dream. 7″Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses ?”
(Acts 7:2), “And he [Stephen] said, “Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . ”
Has not seen
(Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
(John 5:37) – “”And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
(John 6:46) – “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
(1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion ! Amen.”
It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the “can't-see-God” verses, some would understandably argue that there would be a contradiction. One explanation offered is that the people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26; Judges 13:1-21) and not really God Himself. But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3).
At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible–which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.
The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father. This is typically how John writes of God: as a reference to the Father. We see this verified in Jesus own words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.
Hi Lam:The scripture states that God is invisible and that by definition is that he is unable to be seen with the eye, and what good is it to say that some one has seen God in this manner except to boast about having seen him.
The following scripture suggests that Jesus has seen Him:
Joh 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is * of God, he hath seen the Father.But my understanding of this verse is that he did not see him visibly otherwise it would contradict the following scripture:
1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Jesus was and is a man and so I believe that by saying he has seen Him, he is referring to having seen God's person or character, and so verse 1:18 states: “he hath declared him”.
The following is a dictionary definition of the word “declare” which I believe is intended by the scripture that Jesus has seen Him:
1. to make known or state clearly, esp. in explicit or formal terms: to declare one's position in a controversy.
Again, to see him visibly, I don't believe would have any merit. We see him, that is his character, through the life of Our Lord Jesus.
Joh 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?Hebrews 1
1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had * by himself purged * our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;In that sense, I also have seen Him. God is love.
God Bless
Good job,To have actually seen God with the eyes, so what? Is that what Jesus declared? No. He declared who God is. Not what he looks like.
Again, good post.
barley
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 13 2007,16:30) 94 You say…
Quote
Joh 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is * of God, he hath seen the Father.But my understanding of this verse is that he did not see him visibly otherwise it would contradict the following scripture:
This is exactly what I wrote about in the previous post. That when scripture dosnt make sence to us we just explain it away.
The scripture means exactly as it says…Jesus saw the Father. And it is not a contradiction to…
1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.How could Jesus be able to “Declare” him if he hadnt seen him?
Jesus did not lie when he said he has seen the Father. The seeming contradiction is with you and the “Unitarians” who do not believe in the pre-existance of Jesus the Word that was with God.
For if it is true that “No Man” has seen God, but Jesus has. Then that would mean that Jesus must have seen God before he came in the likeness of sinful flesh and that would destroy your foundational belief.
The scripture dosnt need any interpretation.
Jn 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, **he hath seen the Father**.Blessings
It is simple to see and declare who the Father is, if you read the scripture. I can see who the Father is by reading the scripture.God is spirit. John 4:24
God is love.
God is light and in him is no darkness at all.
God cares for his people.
God wants us to have our understanding of him enlightened. How? By our continued learning of the scriptures.
How did Jesus Christ see God? By reading the OT scriptures. Jesus Christ saw that God is faithful and true.
That God wanted mankind to enjoy the creation as Adam and Eve had the opportunity to do.
Jesus Christ saw that God is merciful, and is able and willing to solve man's problems and challenges in life if and when we seek him.
He saw that believing, not human experience is the key to success in life. David overcame Goliath by believing that God was able to do this for him, even as God did it for him facing the lion and the bear. David trusted in God's ability in the situation, but he also understood that he was going to have to take appropriate action to let God into the situation.
Jesus Christ saw from the OT that God is willing and able to energize men of God to have lepers healed.
Jesus Christ saw from the OT that God is able and willing to energize men of God to raise people from the dead.
Jesus Christ saw from the OT scriptures that God is able to defeat entire armies by only a small number of men enabled by God. Men of God obedient to God. Jonathan and his armorbearer, for one. Gideon and the three hundred with trumpets and lamps. Wow. God drove armies away with hornets. Samson with the jawbone of an ass. Jesus Christ saw that God is clearly able to protect anyone and everyone that chooses to believe God's words.
How did JC rebuke the Devil in the temptations in the wilderness? He did not do it by saying, I saw God, so leave me alone. He said it is written.. JC knew what was written and used it. He learned scripture and he used it. Did he say, I saw God and this is what He looks like? No. He used scripture to back the adversary down. Did he say I am the son of God, na na na boo boo? No. He shared scripture.
Jesus Christ saw from the OT that God is able to feed many and a few with little food, because God would increase that food.
Jesus Christ saw these things and a lot more, because he read and learned and remembered the scriptures.
People seemed surprised by the power of God that Jesus Christ wielded, yet the OT taught these things.
God made it clear in the OT, that Jesus Christ was to be glorified for his obedience to the Father. This was made known even before JC existed. Psalm 2. Genesis 3:15; 49:8-12. JC recognized prophecies concerning himself.
Quote (Oxy @ June 12 2010,03:35) It's been a long time since I posted here. Have you missed me? lol There are so many instances recorded in the Old Testament of people seeing God, and this number increases dramatically if you believe what John said in John 1 about the Word being in the beginning and being with God and being God. With that in mind, read Genesis 15.4 and you will see that the Word of God came to Abram to speak to him. The Word of God also visited Samuel, Nathan, Gad, Solomon, Shemaiah, Jehu, Elijah, Isaiah, Nathan, Jeremiah (many times), Ezekiel (many times), Haggai, Zechariah, and then was put in Mary's womb and made flesh. How fantastic is that??
This is of course aside from the times that God appeared to men and in fact all three appeared as men at times. But God appeared to Abraham Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety-nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him, I am the Almighty God! Walk before Me and be perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face. And God talked with him, saying………I could go on, but I'm sure there's enough there to chew on.
Let us look at Genesis 15:4, “And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying,….”What came unto Abram? the word of the Lord. Word means what? Word, matter or thing. It is not a person.
Can you see me? No, yet here I am, maybe a thousand miles away from you, to have a word with you. Can you see me? No. Am I personally present with you? No. Yet it is my words that come to you. You can know me by my words. Why do people personify physical objects? This reminds me of the story of the drunk who ran his car into a telephone pole. The drunk says to the cop, the pole jumped out in front of me. Word is a matter of communicating ideas to people. God had a word with Abraham. God communicated with him, God did not have to go to Abe, God is everywhere. When you sit down with a friend, do you always talk or do you sit silently at times? If you want to have a word with your friend, you might say his name, or make a noise, Km, Km. You first get his attention, then you have a word with him. Your word comes to him because he is separate from you. Your words have to travel to him via the sound of your voice travelling at the speed of sound.
Does God always have to explain the same things over and over again for people to understand? God speaks of appearing to Moses, yet it is clear that it was an angel of God. Why should God have to always explain that it was an angel of God? Do you give lessons in computer design and function every time you post on this website? I doubt you explained it even once. Are you actually black letters on a white computer screen? You do not have to explain to most people that the computer is the means you communicate with others, even though you are not a computer.
This is a lot of words to make a simple point. God is communicates to human kind. God in order to actually get his meaning across to us has to use human words that have precise meanings that mean something in human life, other wise, the communication fails. God uses words to communicate.
Quote (Oxy @ June 12 2010,03:53) Quote (t8 @ July 04 2007,12:52) Everyone is right in their own eyes. That is why we must trust scripture over our own view and keep away from the creeds of men.
If we are to rely on Scripture so much, how do we deal with contradictions? For example,
Mat 27:3 Then he who had betrayed Him, seeing that He was condemned, sorrowing, Judas returned the thirty pieces of silver again to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 saying, I have sinned, betraying innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? You see to that.
Mat 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver down in the temple and departed. And he went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7 And they took counsel and bought the potter's field with them, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8 Therefore that field was called, The Field of Blood, to this day.Compared to
Act 1:16 Men, brothers, this Scripture must have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spoke before concerning Judas, who became guide to those who seized Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Indeed, then, this one purchased a field with the reward of unrighteousness. And falling headlong, he burst apart in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem, so much so that that field is called in their own dialect, Akeldama, that is to say, Field of Blood.There are many such contradictions in Scripture. Scripture was inspired by God, but written by imperfect men and then translated by imperfect man. The ONLY Word of God that is totally reliable is the One who rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father.
Oxy,
Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
There is no contradiction there. People do not read what is written. God's words are pure, they are perfect, God does not contradict himself. Men simply do not read what is written.
barley
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
