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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 21 2009,18:14) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:03) Quote I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. –thinker
Quote We are defending our freedom in Christ to do with Oct 31st what ever we believe God wants us to do or not to do! –WJ
Since this is apparently the theme, I'm wondering if either of you could explain your Christian freedom. Define it. Explain it. Make us understand why it is more important to you than other people's lives.
Thankyou.
DavidWe have already explained it to you, but our answer is not good enough for you, the almighty judge.
David, who infers our hearts and motives are impure.
David, who is playing god by determining that some how we must be offending some “Brother” and causing them to stumble and therefore sinning, for giving out candy and Bible tracts to kids.
You know nothing about who we offend and who we don't do you David? Therfore you should stop judging us shouldn't you?
This defines our liberty in Christ…
“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters“. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. ”WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVANT? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; “another man considers every day alike”. EACH ONE SHOULD BE “FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. he who regards one day as special, does so to the lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. Rom 14:1-6
Again, what part of these scriptures do you disagree with David?
When are you going to accept these scriptures and stop judging us and harrasing us?
WJ
Hey Keith,
Maybe David is just miserable because he doesn't have freedom in Christ.thinker
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,19:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,00:28) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,15:09) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 20 2009,15:57) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:16) Quote I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. Technically this thread is about halloween. I think through the legalist implications and discern the attack on Christian liberty. –thinker.
What do you think of halloween?
David,
I have answered all this already. Where have you been dude? I said that halloween is BENIGN. This is neither a defense or a condemnation. Paul felt that eating meats sacrificed to idols in an idol's temple was benign because he had the knowledge that no other gods exist. In other words, feasting in an idol's temple was BENIGN to Paul except where it caused his brother to stumble.Halloween is BENIGN to me David because I know that pagan gods and ghosts and satan are not real. I never even use a capital “s” for satan except when it is grammatically correct. Satan was real but he has been cast out this world and into the lake of fire.
Read 1 Corinthians 8 David. Paul said that those who could not feast in an idol's temple could not because they had a “consciousness of the idol” which defiled their consciences. I have no consciousness of idols David. So I may feast in an idol's temple if it does not cause my brother to stumble. I have said these things over and over on this thread David.
Halloween is a threat to you because you are conscious of that which does not exist!
Again, I do not defend or condemn halloween. It is BENIGN.
thinker
Satan has not been judged yet.
CON,
Go over to the “Satan has been cast into the lake of fire” thread I started and and prove that satan has not been judged yet. I posted it in the “Debates” forum.thinker
Been there done that
You haven't proven it to me.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,19:46) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,19:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,00:28) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,15:09) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 20 2009,15:57) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:16) Quote I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. Technically this thread is about halloween. I think through the legalist implications and discern the attack on Christian liberty. –thinker.
What do you think of halloween?
David,
I have answered all this already. Where have you been dude? I said that halloween is BENIGN. This is neither a defense or a condemnation. Paul felt that eating meats sacrificed to idols in an idol's temple was benign because he had the knowledge that no other gods exist. In other words, feasting in an idol's temple was BENIGN to Paul except where it caused his brother to stumble.Halloween is BENIGN to me David because I know that pagan gods and ghosts and satan are not real. I never even use a capital “s” for satan except when it is grammatically correct. Satan was real but he has been cast out this world and into the lake of fire.
Read 1 Corinthians 8 David. Paul said that those who could not feast in an idol's temple could not because they had a “consciousness of the idol” which defiled their consciences. I have no consciousness of idols David. So I may feast in an idol's temple if it does not cause my brother to stumble. I have said these things over and over on this thread David.
Halloween is a threat to you because you are conscious of that which does not exist!
Again, I do not defend or condemn halloween. It is BENIGN.
thinker
Satan has not been judged yet.
CON,
Go over to the “Satan has been cast into the lake of fire” thread I started and and prove that satan has not been judged yet. I posted it in the “Debates” forum.thinker
Been there done that
You haven't proven it to me.thinker
Con,
Never mind,
I just discovered that you have been there. They moved the thread and I just now discovered it. I have to go to work now but will post later.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,00:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 21 2009,18:14) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:03) Quote I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. –thinker
Quote We are defending our freedom in Christ to do with Oct 31st what ever we believe God wants us to do or not to do! –WJ
Since this is apparently the theme, I'm wondering if either of you could explain your Christian freedom. Define it. Explain it. Make us understand why it is more important to you than other people's lives.
Thankyou.
DavidWe have already explained it to you, but our answer is not good enough for you, the almighty judge.
David, who infers our hearts and motives are impure.
David, who is playing god by determining that some how we must be offending some “Brother” and causing them to stumble and therefore sinning, for giving out candy and Bible tracts to kids.
You know nothing about who we offend and who we don't do you David? Therfore you should stop judging us shouldn't you?
This defines our liberty in Christ…
“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters“. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. ”WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVANT? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; “another man considers every day alike”. EACH ONE SHOULD BE “FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. he who regards one day as special, does so to the lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. Rom 14:1-6
Again, what part of these scriptures do you disagree with David?
When are you going to accept these scriptures and stop judging us and harrasing us?
WJ
Hey Keith,
Maybe David is just miserable because he doesn't have freedom in Christ.thinker
The sense of emancipation from the fetters of Satan, whose judgment brings to men liberty TO BE holy, and transformation out of servants of the devil into sons and daughters of the Lord Almighty.Constitutionalist said:
Quote The sense of emancipation from the fetters of Satan, whose judgment brings to men liberty TO BE holy, and transformation out of servants of the devil into sons and daughters of the Lord Almighty. And giving gospel tracts to children and a piece of candy in Christ's name is unholy how? Your idea of emancipation seems to indicate that we hide our light under a bushel.
thinker
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,17:04) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 21 2009,00:54) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,07:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 21 2009,12:20) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 20 2009,20:17) Mandy, Quote I confess that I love to throw parties, okay? I love to make people happy. I love to be the hostess with the mostess. Mandy,
If I showed up at your house wearing my avatar ape face would you let me join the party?
thinker
Yea MandyHow about my “Mug” shot on facebook?
WJ
Hey Keith,
Tell me (by pm) how to get on your facebook. I would like to see a picture of you and your family and friends.Jack
p.s. I do celebrate one event in October. My wife and I are celebrating our 30th anniversary today (October 20). But we won't be going out to celebrate until this weekend.
Jack
Congratulations, we will be celebrating our 35th this weekend, October seems to have been a good month for getting married.Wm
Congrats to both of you Wm and Thinker! I think that Thinker's wife must be very patient
Blessings,
Kathi
Kathi,
Thanks for the blessings. Yes I have a patient wife. She rejected two marriage proposals before accepting mine. Go figure.
thinker
I find it rather amazing that Halloween gets so much attention. I find that so ridiculous. Is it so important to you? There is no sense in something like that.
IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 20 2009,11:05) HI NOT3,
At the very least halloween glorifies witchcraft and the occult.
We should think about it.
I don't know……Ask a child what Halloween “glorifies” and I bet you wouldn't get witchcraft and the occult. You would hear things like, the harvest, pumpkins, candy, parties, trick-or-treating, special food and music, games…….
Witchcraft would be very low on their list.
Man, this thread has moved so fast it's going to take me all morning of checking in here and there to catch-up!
Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,20:04) All, I am willing to concede something; Halloween's ancient roots are of evil nature. . . . I cannot escape the true meaning of the original festival. While it WAS indeed a time of one season ending and another beginning….the ancient folks DID believe in ghosts reappearing and their abilities to interact with these spirits. Magic was certainly involved. For the Christian, the facts stop there. –Mandy
Mandy, so what do you think this means for a Christian, or for anyone who wants to please God?
I know this is lame but I honestly don't know, David.I think that we all have to go to our prayer closets and ask…..like children we need to bare our hearts before our Father and ask his permission. A Father deals with his children individually, as he has gifted them individually.
Some would like to impose their convictions on others regarding the celebration of so-called pagan holidays, but in truth we can only go by what we feel the Father is saying to us. The bible is a guide, sure. But we have seen and know that the bible can be manipulated a gazillion different ways.
Love,
MandyQuote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,21:09) Mandy has made mention that today halloween is made up of people who dress like baseball players, astronauts, etc.
I had stated that Demons, ghosts, goblins, witches, vampires where the maskots for halloween.I was in someone's house today (for work) and they had decorated it for halloween. And I didn't see any decorations of ballerina's. I saw cobwebs, witches, ghosts, etc. hmmmm.
Hey David,You must be thinking of someone else, I never said those things. I said that people tend to dress the trends (like which movie is popular and so on). But it doesn't matter.
Decorations around the holiday are supposed to be SPOOKY. Halloween is typically a time to “scare” your buddies. To the kids this is all fun-and-games. It's not the occult. Sometimes I think we do need to lighten up. The kids are not gathering for seances….they are gathering to play hide-and-seek in the dark with flashlights (fun stuff by the way)!
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 21 2009,09:26) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 21 2009,05:56) Hi Kathi, No, I think you are a realist. The thing is, sometimes being a Christian and being a realist don't mesh.
For instance, because Halloween is a so-called wicked holiday after pagan roots (and so is Easter and Christmas) you cannot be lukewarm. Either they are all bad by the same token, or not. I confess, this is my inner-struggle.
Love,
Mandy
Hi Mandy:First of all, I only said that I do not celebrate Halloween. What you do with this holiday is up to you, but there is a difference between this holiday and Christmas and Easter.
Christmas and Easter are about the birth and the resurrection of Jesus our Lord. Of course, the world has made a way to commercialize these holidays with Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny.
I celebrate the birth and the resurrection of my Lord every day, but these holidays are a good way to bring the family together. Some of the family may not know the true meaning of Christmas and Easter, and it is an opportunity to share.
Anyway, I have only told you what I do. I am not the judge.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Bro Marty,My point is simple – if a Christian wants to say that Halloween is evil because of it's pagan origins and trappings, the same can be said of both Christmas and Easter. I'm sorry, this is a true statement.
What you choose to do with this information is up to you.
Love,
MandyQuote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 21 2009,05:48) Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,20:54) All this talk of freedom seems very USA.
Hey now…..
This cracked me up. David, freedom is a CHRIST THING! What, exactly, do you think Christ died for?
I hate to tell you this bro, but we have the freedom to sin. We were given that freedom (by whom?).
We only choose not to out of love. Not out of rules and strict regulations. What would be the point then?
Love,
Mandy
Yes, you do have the freedom to Sin, Mandy.
But Christ did not die so that we would have the freedom to sin willfully. Did he?What I meant about the U.S., is they seem to almost worship freedom.
You clearly missed my point. When you love, you don't sin willfully……Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,12:17) Mandy, Quote I confess that I love to throw parties, okay? I love to make people happy. I love to be the hostess with the mostess. Mandy,
If I showed up at your house wearing my avatar ape face would you let me join the party? thinker
Absolutely!Hey, I can even call the party a “Harvest” party if that will make you feel better?
Love,
MandyHi not3,
It is the adults who should think about this that their children and their children will learn to put aside the world's ways.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 21 2009,12:20) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 20 2009,20:17) Mandy, Quote I confess that I love to throw parties, okay? I love to make people happy. I love to be the hostess with the mostess. Mandy,
If I showed up at your house wearing my avatar ape face would you let me join the party? thinker
Yea MandyHow about my “Mug” shot on facebook?
WJ
Keith, you would be a VIP!!Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2009,14:27) I think some here have forgotten these truths: “Greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world.”
“”Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.”
“To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.”
“Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.”
Thank you for the cup of water, t8! I needed that! Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 21 2009,13:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 21 2009,12:20) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 20 2009,20:17) Mandy, Quote I confess that I love to throw parties, okay? I love to make people happy. I love to be the hostess with the mostess. Mandy,
If I showed up at your house wearing my avatar ape face would you let me join the party? thinker
Yea MandyHow about my “Mug” shot on facebook?
WJ
Keith, you would be a VIP!!
Cool!Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,15:45) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 20 2009,17:29) Kathi, So you compromise, then. Hey, I can dig it. I'm just trying to call a spade a spade here. The tree, while meaningful to your family, is also from a pagan practice. Were you aware of that? Have you ever wondered where that time-honored tradition comes from? It doesn't matter if it's decorated with handmade decorations from your beloved, that is sort of beside the point really. I know, I know, again, this is hard stuff to sift through.
If they bottom line is that these holidays have roots in evil and as Christians we are to avoid them, then we are to avoide them all. Not just the ones that we think have redeeming qualities about them. Am I off track here? Like someone said, is a “little” sin okay? Or do you feel it is sin at all? Maybe not? These are questions I'm asking myself as well.
I do believe we are comparing apples to apples, however.
Love,
Mandy
Mandy,
Call it whatever you want…I just don't see it as compromising. I do not lump all the holidays in one pot and must either celebrate them all or none of them at all. Each is unique and has a unique history and represent different things. Some of them are celebrated because of what Christ did and some are celebrated for what God has done for a nation but I do not find halloween as one that is celebrated because of what Christ or God has done.I will ask you the same question that I asked Keith.
Would you be angry or relieved to have halloween declared a non-holiday and no longer to be celebrated?Would you be angry or relieved to have Christmas declared a non-holiday and no longer to be celebrated? What about Easter?
How do you suppose the ACLU would feel?
Love,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Um, I don't suppose it would matter if the holidays were declared this or that…..people would continue to celebrate or opt-out.
Being in denial of the pagan meaning behind the trees and bunnies doesn't keep it from being true. Trust me, I've tried this route.
The happier suggestions for Christmas and Easter celebrations just means the water is still cool……
My mom used to tell me a story about a frog and a pot of water. She said that if you put a frog into a boiling pot of water (Halloween), it will jump out. But if you put a frog in to a cool pot of water (Christmas and Easter), you can gradually heat it up and cook the frog alive!!
Pagan is pagan – one wears a witch hat, the other a shiny lace of sparkling lights.
But as you say, this is the way I am looking at it (and it's not making me very happy, I might add.). You are free to see any way that you wish.
Love,
Mandy
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