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Hey David,
Quote Mandy….wait, what was your real name again?
What?Quote Mandy, what would you say if I told you many people found God while in Nazi death camps?
Does this mean Nazi death camps are good? No. Nor does a Wiccan believer giving their heart to Jesus at a halloween party sanctify halloween
You missed the point that was being made here. Go back and read the entire exchange.Quote Yes, mandy, I am going over the top in this.
Ha, ya, so over the top that you lost me? Was there a point to be made there?
Quote Of course, the only question that matters is: Would God?
Again, you missed the entire exchange. But the short answer is no, God would not think I am doing wrong by celebrating.Love,
MandyQuote Again, you missed the entire exchange. But the short answer is no, God would not think I am doing wrong by celebrating. What do we know about halloween?
And what does God's word say about what we know about halloween?Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,18:29) Quote Actually you're wrong, David. I'll have to look it up again in the Wicca manual (sigh, don't want to go there again if I don't have to), but the most powerful day is their BIRTHDAY.
Ya, that makes sense. I'm really not up on my wiccan understanding. It seems to only come up at halloween for some reason.
You must not rub shoulders with the masses much?Quote (david @ Oct. 15 2009,23:41) Quote Who is able to tell me what is sin for me? Some say celebrating Halloween is sin. The same would say it is a sin to watch pornography. I confess to doing both in my lifetime! With one I feel absolutely no guilt or proding from the Lord. With the other I felt extreme shame and the sense that I absolutely was not “pleasing the Lord”. So for me Halloween is okay, watching porn is not.
And for those who have no problem with watching pornography….I presume by your logic that for them, it is not a sin? Would this be correct?
Sins of Commission:Corrupt talk, filthy talk, foolish talk, jesting, cursing (Mt 12:36,37, Eph 4:29, Eph 5:4, Col 3:8, Jas 3:10)
Gossip, slander, lying (Ex 20:16 9th commandment, Ps 101:5, Pr 10:18, Pr 17:9, Rev 22:15)
Sinful attitudes (Jer 6:19)
Lust is adultery. (Mt 5:28, 2Pe 2:14)
Hatred is murder. (1Jn 3:11-15) (compare Lev 19:17,18, Mt 5:43-48, Gal 5:19-21)
Coveting (Ex 20:17 10th commandment)
Sins of Omission:
Sins of omission (1Sa 12:23, Mt 25:14-30, Jas 4:17)
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 16 2009,18:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,23:26) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 16 2009,18:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,21:48) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 16 2009,10:43) Even the smallest amount is forbidden. For example, if you have a wool suit and the label is sewn on with a linen thread, it is forbidden to wear the suit until the linen thread is removed. You may not wear a wool jacket with a linen patch on the elbow, or anywhere else.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think the LORD made such a rule?Love,
Mandy
Because one adulterates the other.
How so?
Do you understand the concept of Kosher?
Not exactly, no.Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,18:45) Wait, are you from New Zealand too, Isaiah 1:18?
Yeah.Quote Yes, normally I would be. Whenever it's 8 people against 2, I almost feel like I'm ganging up on that person. So, I'm trying to keep it light.
I would say opinion is roughly divided.Quote (david @ Oct. 15 2009,23:45) Quote I live in a country where Halloween is a new (and unfortunate) importation.
Wait, are you from New Zealand too, Isaiah 1:18?Quote Expected you to be all over this thread David. Yes, normally I would be. Whenever it's 8 people against 2, I almost feel like I'm ganging up on that person. So, I'm trying to keep it light.
Am I the 2?Why I Don’t Celebrate Halloween
LAST YEAR, while his neighbors were busy preparing for Halloween—in some countries, a popular annual holiday with strong spiritistic overtones—14-year-old Michael in Canada had other things on his mind. In an essay that he wrote for school, Michael stated:
‘Tonight is the night before Halloween. As I look outside my window, I see that all my neighbors’ lawns are decorated with tombstones and skeletons and that jack-o’-lanterns light their windows. Parents are making adjustments to their children’s costumes; children are dreaming about how much candy they’ll get tomorrow.
‘My family is different. Our lawn isn’t decorated, and our windows aren’t lit up. People ask me why I don’t celebrate Halloween. Basically, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate it because of its origins.
‘Surprisingly, I like Halloween time. “Why?” you may ask. Because it makes me think. It makes me think about the reason I choose not to do certain things. Each person has to answer for himself whether the origins of a custom matter. I think that the origins do matter. For example, most people would get upset if their neighbors got dressed up as Nazis. Why? Because of the origins of Nazi uniforms and what they stand for—principles that most people find offensive. I find the principles offensive that the devil, wicked spirits, and witches represent, and I don’t want to be associated with them. It’s good to think about the choices we make and our reasons for making them and to make choices based on principle rather than on what is popular. That’s why I like this time of year. I am proud to be different and to stand by what I believe in.’
Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,18:41) Quote Who is able to tell me what is sin for me? Some say celebrating Halloween is sin. The same would say it is a sin to watch pornography. I confess to doing both in my lifetime! With one I feel absolutely no guilt or proding from the Lord. With the other I felt extreme shame and the sense that I absolutely was not “pleasing the Lord”. So for me Halloween is okay, watching porn is not.
And for those who have no problem with watching pornography….I presume by your logic that for them, it is not a sin? Would this be correct?
You're such a David-come-lately.
I'm teasing you because we just chatted about this.
Um, as a child of God we do not look to sin. We do not search out sin and sinful ways. I commented already on pronography and the difference for me between Halloween and the viewing of pronography. Halloween – not a big deal – no sin for me there. Viewing pronography – definitely a big deal – sin for me.
What is sin for one (perhaps accepting a blood transfusion) is not sin for another.
Does this make sense? I'm getting tired tonight…..eyes are shutting….
Love,
MandyQuote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,18:56) Why I Don’t Celebrate Halloween LAST YEAR, while his neighbors were busy preparing for Halloween—in some countries, a popular annual holiday with strong spiritistic overtones—14-year-old Michael in Canada had other things on his mind. In an essay that he wrote for school, Michael stated:
‘Tonight is the night before Halloween. As I look outside my window, I see that all my neighbors’ lawns are decorated with tombstones and skeletons and that jack-o’-lanterns light their windows. Parents are making adjustments to their children’s costumes; children are dreaming about how much candy they’ll get tomorrow.
‘My family is different. Our lawn isn’t decorated, and our windows aren’t lit up. People ask me why I don’t celebrate Halloween. Basically, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate it because of its origins.
‘Surprisingly, I like Halloween time. “Why?” you may ask. Because it makes me think. It makes me think about the reason I choose not to do certain things. Each person has to answer for himself whether the origins of a custom matter. I think that the origins do matter. For example, most people would get upset if their neighbors got dressed up as Nazis. Why? Because of the origins of Nazi uniforms and what they stand for—principles that most people find offensive. I find the principles offensive that the devil, wicked spirits, and witches represent, and I don’t want to be associated with them. It’s good to think about the choices we make and our reasons for making them and to make choices based on principle rather than on what is popular. That’s why I like this time of year. I am proud to be different and to stand by what I believe in.’
Nice story.Origins-smorigins. I've read them all! They can be so different, too, depending on which legends and folklore you choose to side with.
I've read the nasty, and I've read the uplifting. All Celtic and all antiquity…..all different.
Quote What is sin for one (perhaps accepting a blood transfusion) is not sin for another. Does this make sense?
I understand what you are saying.
But it is unquestionably wrong. It is true that there are things that are matters of conscience. And in those cases, it is up to each one's conscience to decide. But in other areas, viewing pornography for example, it would be extraordinarily easy to look at a host of scriptural principles that are extremely clear on this matter.
Remember Jesus speaking of ripping ones eyes out if they are making you stumble? Remember Job saying he made a covenant with his eyes? Remember David and Bathsheba?There are many things where the Bible is not clear. I do not see halloween as one of them. Although no mention is made of halloween, there are several principles at work. We know what God loves and what he hates.
Quote Nice story. Origins-smorigins.
Again, origins may mean little to us, who didn't live back then, but God was around and saw those things.
To someone who lives 500 years from now, he may not care too much about dressing up like Hitler on Halloween. But to someone who saw firsthand the holocaust, to someone who is more informed, such a thing is disgusting.
Perhaps it is a question of what you know. But is ignorance a saving grace?Halloween: Is it wrong to celebrate?
First of all, understand that this is an American custom and there is no direct reference in the Bible about it. However, there are Biblical principles that bear directly upon it. Perhaps the best way that one can be informed about how Halloween relates to Bible teachings is to relate the history of it and then point to the end-time prophecies and what this celebration is leading up to.Unlike the familiar observance of All Souls, Halloween traditions have never been connected with Christian religious celebrations of any kind. Although the name is taken from a great Christian feast (All Hallows' Eve), it has nothing in common with the Feast of All Saints, and is instead, a tradition of pre-Christian times that has retained its original character in form and meaning.
Halloween customs are traced back to the ancient Druids. Halloween fires are kindled in many places even now, especially in Wales and Scotland.
Another, and more important, tradition is the Druidic belief that during the night of November 1, demons, witches, and evil spirits roamed the earth in wild and furious romping of joy to greet the arrival of “their season” – the long nights and early dark of the winter months. They had their fun with poor mortals that night, frightening, harming them, and playing all kinds of mean tricks. The only way, it seemed, for scared humans to escape the persecution of the demons was to offer them things they liked, especially dainty food and sweets. Or, in order to escape the fury of these horrible creatures, a human could disguise himself as one of them and join in their roaming. In this way they would take him for one of their own and he would not be bothered. That is what people did in ancient times, and it is in this very form the custom has come down to us, practically unaltered, as our familiar Halloween celebration.
During the Roman empire there was the custom of eating or giving away fruit, especially apples, on Halloween. It spread to neighboring countries; to Ireland and Scotland from Britain, and to the Slavic countries from Austria. It is probably based upon a celebration of the Roman goddess Pomona, to whom gardens and orchards were dedicated. Since the annual Feast of Pomona was held on November 1, the relics of that observance became part of our Halloween celebration, for instance the familiar tradition of “dunking” for apples.
In the book of Revelation you will find some prophecies relating to end-time events. They depict that Satan and his angels are going to lead out in a massive master delusion of people shortly before probation closes. It is based on the original lie that Satan told Adam and Eve when they sinned – “you will not die.” With many church denominations believing and teaching the non-Biblical idea that as soon as a person dies they go to heaven, this too fits right into the ghosts and goblins idea so prevalent at Halloween. For those who have lived a few decades, it is not difficult to think back some years and observe how rapidly Halloween is escalating in the public attention. This all fits into Satan's end-time masterful deception and to the teachings of spiritism. It is basically for these reasons that thinking Christians who are intent on functioning as Christ would, shy away from any involvement regarding Halloween. They go a step farther even, they also try to shield their children from involvement.
In case you are a parent, here is something to think about also. It is best if parents do not pass by the holidays without notice so far as their children are concerned. On these days when there is danger that children may be exposed to various evil influences and get excited about wrong things, parents should plan alternative fun activities for the children and youth. Let them know that you are seeking to bring happiness through other activities. And this is for good reason.
Children become dissatisfied if everyone about them is celebrating a special event and they are not permitted to have any part in it. This gang spirit manifests itself in various ways. They want to do what others are doing. Just let a few of the neighboring children talk about, plan for, and engage in Halloween stunts, then the rest will feel that they too must have a part in the “fun”. Now days, with the commercialism of everything connected with Halloween, all children know about it weeks in advance.
Halloween is a western hemisphere celebration. In foreign countries, the things that are tolerated here would be unwelcome.
In communities where the young folk are celebrating the scary ideas and costuming up with masks and weird attire, some parents keep their children at home. Some will plan a party for a group of children. Others plan a special trip taking the family away from the home surroundings. And then there are those who attempt to conceal the fact that they are home and sit in darkness watching those who pass by.
A diversion from the usual is to organize the children to collect food for Thanksgiving baskets to be distributed a few weeks in the future. When this is done, they often play some games and have light refreshments before returning to their homes. Such evenings are remembered as joyous occasions and not shameful.
But what about those who come to your door? To give them apples at today's prices is probably not wise. Some find no problem in dispersing candy, while others would not think of it.
Probably the best course of action is to plan for the evening long in advance. Make plans for the family to meet Bible standards and principles that will prove to be a blessing and that will help each member, while insuring that tricks and pranks will not produce regrets for either the present or the future. – BibleInfo.com
http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/content/it-wrong-celebrate “I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.” (1 Corinthians 10:20-22, New International Version)
“What common interest can there be between goodness and evil? How can light and darkness share life together? How can there be harmony between Christ and the devil? What can a believer have in common with an unbeliever?” (2 Corinthians 6:14-16, Phillips)
Quote First of all, understand that this is an American custom
Well, Americans have a tendency to popularize things that have been around for thousands of years.The pre-Christian Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all celebrated a festival for the dead. These ancients believed that on these occasions the spirits of the dead returned; therefore food was left for them and lamps were kept burning so they would not lose their way.
Ever since after the time of the flood, with the deaths of those wicked people, there have been commemorations/celebrations for the dead on or around the end of October/beginning of November.
The ancients associated this time of the year with the supernatural and with the thronging of dead spirits, so it was right in line with Catholic church policy to adopt this date for their All Saints’ and All Souls’ Day.
The people were thus able to keep their pagan customs and beliefs and still celebrate what are called Christian festivals of the highest rank. But the varnish applied by Christendom to these pagan feasts is so thin that there is no questioning the fact that Halloween is rooted in paganism.
Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,19:10) “I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.” (1 Corinthians 10:20-22, New International Version) “What common interest can there be between goodness and evil? How can light and darkness share life together? How can there be harmony between Christ and the devil? What can a believer have in common with an unbeliever?” (2 Corinthians 6:14-16, Phillips)
What makes you think that Halloween is a demon holiday?I've read some really neat things about Celtic farmer's and a country way of life surrounding the Halloween holiday. It has nothing to do with spiritualism and everything to do with daily survival.
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing.’” (2 Cor. 6:14, 17)
Quote What makes you think that Halloween is a demon holiday? Oh, I don't know…all the demons running around?
Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,19:17) Quote What makes you think that Halloween is a demon holiday? Oh, I don't know…all the demons running around?
Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2009,19:17) Quote What makes you think that Halloween is a demon holiday? Oh, I don't know…all the demons running around?
I don't see any demons running around…..Here's what I think – I think the early Christians didn't like the Pagan religions (the earth religions) because they wouldn't convert. So….they made things hard on them. They gave them the squeeze, if you will. So now anything that is of Pagan origin is deemed taboo and evil. That's sort of not fair, really. There are some Pagan beliefs that have nothing to do with spirituality.
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