Gospel of Matthew

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,01:48)

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Posted: Oct. 31 2007,11:37

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Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 29 2007,07:23)

Sir If Jesus was not resurrected then it had to have been His deciples or apostles who have had to removed His body. It sure wasn't the priest or the Romans! And if that were true then they were stoned, wiped and crucified for a lie that they started. Would you die for something you KNEW were false? Would you be able to watch your family being eaten by lions for something you knew was false?

How can you prove any of this actually took place outside of the Christian bible? You cannot therefore your scenario is unprovable. It is most likely that there was a Jew named Jesus and that he was a rebel. He was likely crucified as a rebel against Rome. History DOES show that many Jews were crucified for this very thing.

How can you prove that the ark existed? OR that Moses crossed the red sea. Have they found the ark? Is there proof of God using Moses to part the red sea? Is their proof of Adam and Eve?

No. Yet here is your dilemma. The Jewish bible was not written with another set of scriptures as its basis. Your 'new testament' was. Because Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies (cut-n-paste out of context verses don't count), was not the seed of David and Solomon, was not properly anointed, and died before he could fulfill real messianic prophecies, he was not the Messiah.

In addition the apostate Paul taught that the Torah was no longer necessary. That contradicts G-d in the Jewish bible. He even contradicts Jesus' teaching! Therefore the 'new testament' even contradicts itself by Jesus teaching the Torah while Paul was teaching against the Torah. Except in John. Jesus was definitely not a Torah observant Jew in the gospel of John.

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You believe that Paul started a rumour then died for it?!

You're still trying to prove something using only the Christian bible. How can we be certain Paul ever was killed?

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See that's what I mean you are unreasonable. You are unable to think outside what you have read. BECAUSE you don't have the Spirit to guide you.

What I read is in the Jewish bible. The Jewish bible tells us of the real promised Moshiach and Jesus wasn't him by any standard. The only real messianic prophecy Jesus fulfilled was that he was a Jewish man.

As to the spirit guiding me is this the same spirit that leads Christians to have 1000s of different denominations with each calling the other lost heretics? Seems your spirit isn't very consistent.

I've read over some of the threads concerning Jesus' divinity on this board and you have some saying he is part of a three-headed god, others saying he is a god but not G-d, some saying an angel, yet others saying he was just a man (closest to the truth). Then there are arguments as to whether he was an eternal co-creator with YHVH stuck inside of a woman.

Tell me, which ones of these people have the spirit guiding them? The ones that believe as you do?

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BTW What are the Jews waiting on in order to build their temple? And you say you have covering for your sins without animal sacrifice so why start sacrificing animals again?

Whatever :laugh:

Again you accuse me of not having understanding while you do not have understanding of your own 'old testament'.

Animal sacrifices will resume during the third temple era because G-d said so. Do you need more reason than that?

As to what the Jews are waiting for is the Moshiach. He will come when the third temple is to be built.

Instead of accusing me of not knowing maybe you should actually study the first part of your bible. I know Christians don't really care for that dusty 'old testament' (your mother church named it that so you would always think 'old and worthless'). If Christianity had not come from Judaism I'm certain that your mother church would have ditched the 'old testament' long ago. But then they wouldn't be able to prove their 'cut-n-paste messiah'.

As I have shown the Jewish bible shows that atonement is available without blood sacrifice. Your argument as to why it was needed if that is so falls short because it is by commandment of G-d while a temple stands.

If Jews could not receive forgiveness of sins without animal sacrifice what of the period of time between the first and second temple? Jesus was not around back then why didn't he come and atone for sins back then? Do you think G-d is that shortsighted? G-d has always provided a way and it ain't Jesus.

October 31, 2007 at 12:19 pm#70051

Participant

Quote (charity @ Oct. 28 2007,14:59)

Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,00:50)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,01:35)

Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,11:22)

If the moderators can make private forums that people can access by invitation only I would be willing to continue. But I'd like for the threads to be private. Can ikonboard do that?

John 3:20

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. I just figured that I could carry this on with those who are interested without disrupting the others on the board. Some have already said (you being one of them) that I am here to attack people's faith, and someone else told me that this board was like a community for its members. I read some parts of some other threads and saw the truth in this. It made me feel bad because my purpose is not to hurt people. You may not agree but all of what I present is from your bible and Jewish scriptures.

If you feel I am hiding or fearing I can continue. I have no fear of what my faith is. If you call me evil then be prepared to call your 'old testament' evil because I can show where Jesus is not the Messiah from them.

This thread is about Matthew though. Scholars say that this gospel was written to Jews. I am simply showing where Matthew is so flawed that any Jewish person who knows scripture would deny Jesus because of the many problems with Matthew.

As I do this I am almost thinking that the writer of Matthew purposely made these mistakes so Jews would deny Jesus.

If other people want me to continue, I will. Just be warned that you will know what I will be showing and if you do not like it you should stay away from my threads. That will have to be the form of privacy that is given.

Hi Towshab

I’m Interested in what you have to say…and also my thinking is… that “their” is a problem with the eye witness testament of the Man Jesus Christ’s Life… If “Altered”? I found Mathew to be rather innocent, after seeing the Gospels of John…in its true colours, removing the orginal Kingdom from the earth…and teach the congregation to Judge his brother against his own Knowledge. And to stand firm in pride…just look around and see his work…..it…this Disciple book has lead the world in every way with his one linners,more than Mathews., anyway that’s another thread!
Who's Luke?
Who's Mark?

I have found that all the false hoods… that shall poses this earth at the end of this age… will be planed and constructed from the Life of this Man call Jesus…As this prophecy reveals below and is coming to pass…till now.. as it will have to be reviewed, looking back on blinded age that preforms the greatest evils of destrution, to now, the time the eye's are opened, and knees strenthen to see and identify the error of the human imaginations, its evil powers and forces of pride, that destroy the peace and happiness. perverting the transforming of the Nations into one, no more greek Jew..all are brothers of christ?

Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.¶ And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.

Thank you for your posts. And I don't think you are evil at all…I prefer to have all that i have taken on as truth challenge. And I pray that all that is left standing is the truth within me…one day at a time…what’s right today. can be wrong tomorrow…Gods good will to all men.

charity

Bringing this forward so I can answer it later today.

October 31, 2007 at 2:51 pm#70053

Participant

Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 31 2007,22:58)

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,01:48)

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Posted: Oct. 31 2007,11:37

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Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 29 2007,07:23)

How can you prove that the ark existed? OR that Moses crossed the red sea. Have they found the ark? Is there proof of God using Moses to part the red sea? Is their proof of Adam and Eve?

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You believe that Paul started a rumour then died for it?!

You're still trying to prove something using only the Christian bible. How can we be certain Paul ever was killed?

Quote

See that's what I mean you are unreasonable. You are unable to think outside what you have read. BECAUSE you don't have the Spirit to guide you.

As to the spirit guiding me is this the same spirit that leads Christians to have 1000s of different denominations with each calling the other lost heretics? Seems your spirit isn't very consistent.

Tell me, which ones of these people have the spirit guiding them? The ones that believe as you do?

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BTW What are the Jews waiting on in order to build their temple? And you say you have covering for your sins without animal sacrifice so why start sacrificing animals again?

Whatever :laugh:

Again you accuse me of not having understanding while you do not have understanding of your own 'old testament'.

Animal sacrifices will resume during the third temple era because G-d said so. Do you need more reason than that?

As to what the Jews are waiting for is the Moshiach. He will come when the third temple is to be built.

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Animal sacrifices will resume during the third temple era because G-d said so. Do you need more reason than that?

You can't prove that! That's only written in a book along with Moses and the ark! :laugh:

NO! the Holy Spirit is calling Jesus' people out of the harlot.

Tell me IYO what is fleshly creation about?

Who do you say I am? THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD!

Who's to say Paul was murdered? Again who's to say that their was an ark OR that Elijah was taken up OR even existed?
It's all of faith the substance of things not seen.

Do you really believe God spoke everything into existence in SIX days or that the first human was made from dust? YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT. What makes you WANT to attack Christianity and the Son of God? You are the first Jew, or are you a Jew? If you are not of the blood then you are the lowest of them all! Your G_D is a respecter of persons going by blood where my GOD says we are all one in Christ because My God saves the whole world and not just those who are Jews by blood but are Jews of spirit having the Spirit of GOD. But you will never understand that hanging on every word man has written. Do you really think that the Old Testament has no mistakes?

Again you can't prove that the Old testament is true. You only have the word of men that SAY it is true.

We have the witness of the Spirit with our Spirit that we are the children of God! You say you are a child of G_D because you sacrifice animals refusing to grow in GOD. Is God's plan stagnant? Is this our righteousness the blood of animals? The blood of animals do not forgive sins but is a cover for your sin that you are reminded of every year.

Once someone has TRULY tasted of the gift of God as far as I no will never reject Jesus the lamb of God who died so we would have the RIGHT to become the children of God.
Once you have received the Holy Spirit you don't believe Jesus you KNOW Jesus and God. Anyone who has Received the Holy Spirit and then rejects Jesus IS dead. But as I say even those who have fallen away NEVER deny Jesus being the Son of God (that I am aware of) even the demons know Jesus is the Son of God the fulfillment of the sacrificial law that you “almost” keep.

I see no point in wasting my time with you. You will never understand even that which you think you know because you know not the author. The Letter of God to His children is not like any book in the world. You must be guided by the Spirit.

I really don't see you shaking the faith of those who are here and of the SPIRIT. So the fact is you are wasting your time also. But you must try because that IS your calling JUST AS JUDAS was CALLED to betray Jesus.

God forgive you,

Ken

October 31, 2007 at 3:22 pm#70054

Participant

Here are just 50 of those thousand Prophecies:

Ancestors:

1- The “seed of a woman”: Genesis 3:15…. Galatians 4:4.
Jesus was born of Virgin Mary without any man involved in His conception (Is.7:14, Mat.1:23, Lk.1:27).
– Gen.3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
– Gal.4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law. (Luk.2:7; Rev.12:5)

2- Descendent of Abraham: Genesis 12:3, 18:18…. Acts 3:25, Matthew 1:1.
– Gen. 18:18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. (Gen. 12:3)
– Act. 3:25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, “Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.” (Mt.1:1; Lk.3:34)

3- Descendent of Isaac: Gen.17:19, Luc.3:34.
– Gen.17:19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.”
-Mt.1:2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers. (Lk.3:34)

4- Descendent of Jacob: Numbers 24:17…… Luke 3:34, Matt.1:2.
– Num.24:17 I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.
– Lk.3:34 The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor. (Mt.1:2)

5– From the Tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10, Luke 3:33.
– Gen.49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
– Lk.3:33 The son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah. (Mt.1:2-3)

6- Hair of the Throne of David: Isaiah 9:7…. Luke 1:32-33.
– Isa.9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. (Isa.11:1-5; 2Sam.7:13)
– Luk.1:32-33: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.” (Mt.1:1, 1:6)

Birth and Childhood:

7- Born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2…. Matthew 2:1…. Luke 2:4-7.
– Mic.5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from ancient times.
– Mt.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. (Lk.2:4-7)

8- To be born of a Virgin: Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18…. Luke 1:26-35.
– Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
– Mt.1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: his mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:26-35)

9- Time of his birth: Daniel 9:25…. Luke 2:1:
– Dan.9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven “sevens” and sixty two “sevens.” It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
– Lk 2:1-2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was the governor of Syria.) (Lk 2:3-7)
– Mat.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

10- Slaughter of the Innocent children: Jeremiah 31:15…. Matthew 2:16-18.
– Jer.31:15 This is what the Lord says: “A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more.”
– Mt.2:16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. (Mt 2:16-18)

11- Flight to Egypt: Hosea 11:1…. Matthew 2:14-15.
– Hos.11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son
– Mt.2:14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt. (Mt 2:15)

12- He shall be called a Nazarene: Judges 13:5…. Matthew 2:23.
– Jud.13:5 for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God
– Mt.2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene

Passion:

13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9…. John 12:13-14.
– Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Isa.62:11)
– Jn.12:13-14 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Blessed is the King of Israel!” Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written. (Mt.21:1-11; Jn.12:12, Mk.11:7-9.)

14- Entry through the “Golden Gate”, that shall be shut for ever after his entrance: Ezekiel 44:1-2…. Mark 11:7-8.
On Palm Sunday Jesus entered Jerusalem through the Golden Gate. When you go to Jerusalem look at the Golden Gate, it is shut with stone and cement, and with a Muslim cemetery in its front, through which a Jewish Messiah will never pass.
– Ez.44:1-2 Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut. 2 The LORD said to me, “This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD , the God of Israel, has entered through it.
– Mk.11:7-8 When they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks over it, he sat on it. Many people spread their cloaks on the road, while others spread branches they had cut in the fields.

15- Betrayed by a friend, for 30 pieces of silver: Zechariah 11:12, Psalm 41:9… Mark 14:10, Matthew 26:14-15.
– Ps.41:9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.
– Mk.14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. (Mt.26:14-16; Mk.14:43-45)
– Zec.11:12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. (Zec.11:13)
– Mt.26:15 And asked, “What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?” So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. (Mt 27:3-10)

16- Money to be returned for a potter's field: Zechariah 11:13…. Matthew 27:6-7.
– Zec.11:13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”- the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
– Mt.27:6-7 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.” So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's
field as a burial place for foreigners. (Mt.27:3-5,8-10)

17- Judas's position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8…. Acts 1:18-20.
– Ps.109:7-8 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him. May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership
– Act.1:18-20 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) “For, ” said Peter, “It is written in the book of Psalms, “'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, “'May another take his place of leadership.'” (Ac 1:16-17)

18- Accused by false witnesses: Psalms .27:12, 35:11…. Mt 26:60-61, Mk.14:57.
– Ps.27:12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes, for false witnesses rise up against me, breathing out violence. (Ps.35:11)
– Mt.26:60-61 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two men came forward and declared, “This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'”

19- Silent to accusations: Isaiah 53:7…. Matthew 26:62-63, Mark.15:4-5.
– Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38:13-14)
– Mt 26:62-63 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God!” (Mt 27:12-14, Mk.15:4-5)

20 – Spat and struck: Isaiah 50:6, Matthew 26:67.
– Isa.50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
– Mk.14:65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him. (Mt.26:27, Mk.15:17; Jn 19:1-3; 18:22)

21- Hated without reason: Psalms 69:4, 35:19, 109:3-5…. John.15:24-25.
– Ps 69:4 Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal. (Ps.35:19, 109:3-5)
– Jn.15:23-25 He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: “They hated me without reason.”

22- Soldiers divided his garments and gambled for his clothing: Psalm 22:18… Matt.27:35 (2 Prophecies)
– Ps 22:18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
– Mt.27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots (Mk.15:24).

23- Crucified, “pierced through hands and feet”: Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16…. Matthew 27:35, John 20:27.
– Ps.22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. (Zec.12:10)
– Mt.27:35 And they crucified him.
– Jn. 20:25-26 Now Thomas (called Didymus)… he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” (Jn.19:37, 20:27)

24- Crucified with malefactors: Isaiah 53:12…. Mark 15:27-28.
– Isa.53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
– Mt 27:38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. (Mk 15:27-28; Lk 23:33)

25- Agonized in Thirst: Psalm 22:15…. John 19:28.
– Ps.22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
– Jn.19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

26- Given gall and vinegar: Psalm 69:21…. Matthew 27:34, 48, John 19:19.
– Ps.69:21 They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.
– Mat.27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink (Jn.19:29, Mat.27:48).

27- No bones broken: Psalm 34:20…. John 19:32-36.
– Ps 34:20 He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (Ex 12:46)
– Jn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

28- His side pierced: Zechariah 12:10…. John 19:34.
– Zec.12:10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
– Jn 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

29- Deserted by God: Psalm 22:1…. Matthew 27:46.
– Ps.22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
– Mat.27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

30- Vicarious Sacrifice: Isaiah 53:4-5, 6, 12…. Matthew 8:16-17, Romans 4:25, 5:6-8, 1 Corinthians 15:3.
– Isa.53:4-5 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. (Is. 53:6, 12)
– Mt.8:16-17 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: “He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases.” (Ro 4:25, 5:6-8, 1Cor 15:3)

31- Buried with the rich: Isaiah 53:9, Matthew 27:57-60.
– Isa.53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
– Mt.27:57-60 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away

32- Deserted by his followers: Zechariah 13:7…. Mark 14:27.
– Zec.13:7 smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
– Mk.14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25…. Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
– Doing the proper computations, the Messiah was supposed to die on April 3, of the year 33 AC (Open Bible pag.833)

34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15….. Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
– Hos.6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we
shall live in his sight.
– Lk.24:6-7 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

35- Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10….. Matthew 27:52-53.
– Isa.26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
– Ez.37:7-10 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
– Mat.27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3…..Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19.
– Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
– Ps.24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
– Lk 24:50-51 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven
– Act.1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

37- Christ at the Right hand of the Father: Psalm 110:1….. Hebrews 1:2,3.
– Ps.110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
– Heb.1:2,3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Ministry:

38- The way prepared by John the Baptist: Isaiah 40:3,5…. John 1:23, Luke 3:3-6.
– Isa.40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
– Jn.1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaiah

39- Preceded by a forerunner: Mal.3:1, Luk.7:24-27.
40- Preceded by Elijah: Mal.4:5-6, Matt.11:13-14.
41- Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7, Matt.3:17.
42- Galilean Ministry: Is.9:1-2, Matt.4:13-16.
43- Speaks in Parables: Ps.78:2-4, Matt.13:34-35.
44- A Prophet: Deut.18:15, Jn.6:14, Acts 3:20-22.
45- Priest after the Order of Melchizedek: Ps.110:4, Heb.5:5-6.
46- To bind up the brokenhearted: Is.61:1-2, Luk.4:18-19.
47- Rejected by his own people, the Jews: Is.53:3, John 1:11.
48- Not believed: Is.53:1, John 12:37.
49- Adored by infants: Ps.8:2, Matt.21:15–16.
50- Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-12.

October 31, 2007 at 10:38 pm#70075

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,09:51)

You can't prove that! That's only written in a book along with Moses and the ark! :laugh:

NO! the Holy Spirit is calling Jesus' people out of the harlot.

Tell me IYO what is fleshly creation about?

Who do you say I am? THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD!

You are the son of the living G-d? I thought Jesus was supposed to be that. Are you saying you are Jesus? All of the Christians I know are still here so that must be false.

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Who's to say Paul was murdered? Again who's to say that their was an ark OR that Elijah was taken up OR even existed?
It's all of faith the substance of things not seen.

Well if you don’t believe in the ark or Elijah why should you believe in Paul? Really now the Jewish scriptures are the foundation of your own religion. Without them you have no Messiah. With them you don't either because the words contained in the Jewish scripture tells of the messianic age and Jesus certainly did not usher that age in.

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is a respecter of persons going by blood where my GOD says we are all one in Christ because My God saves the whole world and not just those who are Jews by blood but are Jews of spirit having the Spirit of GOD. But you will never understand that hanging on every word man has written. Do you really think that the Old Testament has no mistakes?

I knew Christians did not serve the G-d of the Jewish scriptures and you have just proved it by saying as much. One thing you failed to mention though is that while Israel is G-d’s firstborn He also said this:

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

My G-d is this G-d. He is the G-d of Israel but He is also the G-d of all flesh. By saying you serve a different G-d you are an idolater and a commandment breaker.

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

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Again you can't prove that the Old testament is true. You only have the word of men that SAY it is true.

Just as you faith is what makes it true for me. But the problem is, your messiah did not fulfill the prophecies of the true Moshiach therefore what is written in the Christian bible is called into serious question.

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I do not sacrifice animals. There is no temple and likely will not be one in my lifetime. Yet my G-d does not sacrifice humans either. What you also keep forgetting is that blood was only for one type of sin: unintentional. How will YOU receive forgiveness of those sins you commit willingly?

Jesus’ blood fell on the ground. In order for blood to atone for sin it must be sprinkled on an altar. Please show me in your bible where Jesus’ blood was sprinkled on an altar.

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Once someone has TRULY tasted of the gift of God as far as I no will never reject Jesus the lamb of God who died so we would have the RIGHT to become the children of God.

Did you know that the Paschal lamb as John tries to portray Jesus was not for atonement? The Paschal lamb was to be eaten in remembrance of Passover. It has nothing whatsoever to do with forgiveness of sins. Your new testament writers did not even get that part right.

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Once you have received the Holy Spirit you don't believe Jesus you KNOW Jesus and God. Anyone who has Received the Holy Spirit and then rejects Jesus IS dead. But as I say even those who have fallen away NEVER deny Jesus being the Son of God (that I am aware of) even the demons know Jesus is the Son of God the fulfillment of the sacrificial law that you “almost” keep.

There are those demons again. Happy Halloween!

If Jesus was the end of all sacrifices why did people still sacrifice in the temple until its destruction in 70 AD?

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Your letter, the Christian bible, is not inspired by YHVH. YHVH cannot be found written anywhere in your bible. Just earlier in this post you also said you do not serve YHVH but this other god, the father of Jesus.

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You should be thanking Judas. If not for him you’d be serving some other
mythology. Mithraism most likely. Both are based on the same stories but Mithraism came first.

Or you could be a Muslim. Islam is outpacing Christianity you know.

October 31, 2007 at 10:42 pm#70076

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,10:22)

Here are just 50 of those thousand Prophecies:

Ancestors:

Genesis 3:15 is talking about the snake and mankind. Snakes crawl on the ground. Man can step on a snakes head but a snake can bite a man’s heel. This was not the case before because the serpent had legs and now it was to be cursed to slither on its belly. This was only made to be messianic when it has nothing to do with the Messiah. Besides the Messiah is also to be of the seed of David and Solomon. Virgin birth rules that out.

As to the Messiah being of the seed of a woman, aren’t all humans? That’s a pretty broad prophecy!

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Virgin birth? Void #2-6.

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Birth and Childhood:

Already covered in the Matthew thread. To make the story short the Messiah is to come from the clan of Ephrathah, not necessarily be born in Bethlehem. In fact the way it reads in Matthew makes it appear that the Messiah is to be from Bethlehem. But according to Luke, Jesus was a Nazarene. You are not ‘from’ a place if it is only your place of birth. Mary and Joseph resided in Nazareth so Jesus was ‘from’ Nazareth not Bethlehem.

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Twisting of ‘almah’ which means ‘young woman’. The LXX uses ‘parthenos’ which would lead to the usual rendering of ‘virgin’ in Is 7:14, but in Gen 32:2-4 the LXX calls Dinah a ‘parthenos’ even after she has been raped. I hardly think someone who has been raped can be called a virgin do you?

Also what of this verse?

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Can you show me where this was fulfilled in Jesus’ day?

In actuality, Immanuel is Isaiah’s son as is Shearjashub (Is 7:3). Just like Hosea who was prophesying to Israel, Isaiah is the prophet to Judah. Both Hosea and Isaiah were told by G-d what names their children would have and the names reflected the spiritual conditions of the two kingdoms. Isaiah’s children had names that reflected Judah’s faithfulness while Hosea’s children had names that reflected Israel’s wickedness.

Even Strong’s agrees
From H5973 and H410 with suffix pronoun inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a name of Isaiah’s son: – Immanuel.

So Immanuel is Isaiah’s son and Matthew just yanks it out of context and applies it to Jesus. So if you agree with the virgin birth if Jesus and the verse in which it is based on is Is 7:14, then Isaiah’s son Immanuel was born of a virgin as well. Wonder how that happened?

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Daniel still needs some work. But if you check this out you’ll get something much closer to the truth. http://seventyweeksdaniel.netfirms.com/cover_p….ks.htm.

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——————–
Jer 31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
Jer 31:16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
Jer 31:17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
——————–
Really, does this look like children dying in Jeremiah 31? This was about the children of Israel in Babylonian captivity. I’ve already covered this mistake in the Matthew thread.

October 31, 2007 at 10:48 pm#70077

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,10:22)

You can’t even see the fallacy of this by reading what you quoted?!? Look. Hosea 11:1 says ‘Israel’. It was about the Exodus. At least read what you listed. This has nothing at all to do with Jesus.

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Hahahahaha, you DO realize that a Nazarite and a Nazarene are two different things right? Judges 13:5 is about Samson. So much for that ‘spiritual guidance’ Christians have.

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This is one of my personal favorites! That Matthew, such a comedian. I note you didn’t list the Matthew reference. Intentional?
——————–
Mat 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
——————–
From the Septuagint
——————–
Zec 9:9 [Apostles] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; proclaim it aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, your King is coming to you, righteous, and your Savior; He is meek and riding on a donkey, a young foal of a donkey.
——————–
It is only one animal yet Matthew has him riding in on two animals!! What a laugh! At least Mark is smarter and only uses one animal. I’m telling you, Matthew was either incompetent or intentional.
——————–
Mar 11:7 And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.
——————–
Don’t stop at Zec 9:9 though
——————–
Zec 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
——————–
Did any of this happen? Unfulfilled prophecy yet again. Many swings, many strikes.

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So you believe Jesus was YHVH then? While lingering on the various threads I noticed that you didn’t seem to believe in the trinity. Are you a ‘oneness’ pentacostal then? In order to apply Eze 44:1-2 to Jesus you MUST believe he is YHVH because it says “It is to remain shut because the LORD , the God of Israel, has entered through it.”.

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When was Judas ever considered his close friend that he trusted? Judas was only in it for the money. But if you insist on applying Ps 41:9 to Jesus to make him into a cut-n-paste messiah, don’t forget Ps 41:4
——————–
Psa 41:4 I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.
——————–
Christian writers weren’t too careful.

I didn’t know Judas was a shepherd. I thought Jesus was to be the shepherd. Learn something new every day. Does anything else in Zec 11 fit Jesus at all? Another case of cut-n-paste messiah.

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16- Money to be returned for a potter's field: Zechariah 11:13…. Matthew 27:6-7.
– Zec.11:13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”- the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
– Mt.27:6-7 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.” So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. (Mt.27:3-5,8-10)

Zech 11:13 says nothing about purchasing a field with the money. YHVH tells Zechariah to throw the 30 pieces of silver to the potter in the house of YHVH. You’re pointing out more errors in Matthew than I have thus far!

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17- Judas's position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8…. Acts 1:18-20.
– Ps.109:7-8 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him. May his days be few; may anothe
r take his place of leadership
– Act.1:18-20 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) “For, ” said Peter, “It is written in the book of Psalms, “'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, “'May another take his place of leadership.'” (Ac 1:16-17)

Psalm 109 is neither prophetic (but it IS pathetic to think it is) nor messianic. It is about David speaking of his enemies. This just goes to show how desperate the Christian bible writers were in trying to make their tales fit the Jewish scriptures. But they pull everything out of context.

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Can Psalm 27 be about Jesus? Let’s look
——————–
Psa 27:2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.
——————–
Wait I thought his disciples were supposed to eat his flesh not his enemies. Jesus must be confused.
——————–
Psa 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
——————–
Wait I thought Jesus was the rock? Will he sit upon himself?
——————–
Psa 27:9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.
——————–
Jesus needed a savior? I thought he was the savior? Goes to show you, G-d IS the only savior cause Jesus says so, right here.
——————–
Psa 27:10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
——————–
Now I’m confused. I thought YHVH was Jesus’ father. And when did his mom ever forsake him? Are you certain Psalm 27 is about Jesus? What then of Psalm 35, surely that is about Jesus (you said so just above)
——————–
Psa 35:4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
——————–
How does this stack up against John 3:16? Because that verse tells us it was G-d who gave His son up to be killed. Jesus is saying some pretty nasty things about G-d here!
——————–
Psa 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
——————–
When did Jesus wear sackcloth? Did he truly fast when people were sick? When?
——————–
Psa 35:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
——————–
I know they mocked him and smote him, even spit on him, but I don’t recall anyone biting him. Learn something new every day.

Psalm 35 is all about vengeance. So much for a peace-loving pacifist Jesus.

‘Jesus, the cut-n-past messiah’

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You left off Mat 26:64
——————–
Mat 26:64 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
——————–
So much for being silent or not opening his mouth. What bible are you reading?

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——————–
Isa 50:4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.
——————–
Several ways to look at this. If Jesus was a god in the flesh why would he need G-d to give him the ‘tongue of the learned’? But if he was just a mere mortal then this would be OK.
——————–
Isa 50:9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up
——————–
Well it seems he was condemned. To die.
——————–
Isa 50:10 Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
——————–
See here? All I have to do is call upon the name of YHVH. I don’t have to call on the name of Jesus.

Whatever the case this chapter of Isaiah is not messianic. It is Isaiah speaking as G-d’s prophet. That is what is being referred to in Is 50:4. Yet another case of cut-n-paste messianism.

October 31, 2007 at 10:51 pm#70078

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,10:22)

They had plenty of cause. He broke G-d’s Torah. Besides Ps 69:4 is about King David not a future Messiah. I mean after all if you want to apply 69:4 to him go on and apply 69:5 as well. Or is this more taking verses out of context to make a Messiah?
——————–
Psa 69:5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.
——————–
Is Jesus saying he is both foolish and sinful? Guess so. So much for the perfect god-man.

I’ve already shown that Ps 35 can’t be about Jesus. Since Ps 109 has come up again let’s look at it.
——————–
Psa 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
Psa 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Psa 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
——————–
I thought Jesus was extending mercy to all? Seems he’s quite spiteful here. Shiver. Give me the good Samaritan any day.

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Is this what Jesus would say? After all, its in the context of Psalm 22:18
——————–
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

So now Jesus is not a god, not an angel, not even a man! He is according to this verse, saying he is a worm. I’m glad I worship G-d and not a worm.

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Ps 22:16 is a favorite of Christians. Shame it is mistranslated in almost every Christian bible out there.

The phrase translated as ‘pierced’ is ‘kara ariy’. It means ‘like a lion’ or something similar. How do I know? Because the translators agree with me. See Gen 49:9, Num 23:24, Num 24:9, Ps 10:9, Ps 17:2, etc. Therefore Ps 22:16 should be translated
——————–
Psa 22:16 (22:17) [JPS 1917] For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
——————–
In fact even in the KJV you have the following in the same chapter
——————–
Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. {hehe unicorns no wonder atheists use that}
——————–
Of the 80 times that ‘ariy’ is found in the KJV, guess how many of them are not translated as ‘lion’? Only one. You guessed it Ps 22:16. Can you see why Jews reject the Christian bible? It is manipulated to read Jesus back into the ‘old testament’!!

On to another favorite of Christians Zech 12:10. Here’s how the KJV reads.
——————–
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
——————–
Seems there is some viewpoint changes in this one verse. It goes from ‘me’ to ‘him’. That is no real issue because the rest of this chapter has nothing to do with a messiah. The context is of war. What war does the Christian bible speak of during Jesus’ crucifixion?

This chapter is about the death of Josiah.

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He was a transgressor. He wanted people to drink his blood and eat his flesh which is against G-d’s Torah. But Is 53 is speaking of Israel anyway so no big deal.

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He was thirsty? Now I’m convinced. Only the real messiah would ever get thirsty. Wait I’m feeling parched. Maybe I should check my lineage!

Ps 22 already covered. ‘Jesus the worm messiah’ (Psalm 22:6)

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More cut-n-paste without daring to check the context. T
ell me how many of these are supposed to be Jesus.
——————–
Psa 69:19 Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee.
Psa 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
Psa 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. {the gall was the meat not mixed with vinegar}

Psa 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness {vs ‘forgive them for they know not what they do’}
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous {this is your savior?!?}
——————–
As so many times before you have to take the whole context not just the verses that seem to match. Otherwise its still ‘cut-n-paste messiah’.

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Just looking at the little context of Ps 34, there is something obvious from the very first word. It is not talking about a specific individual but all those who are righteous. This psalm affirms the principle that YHVH takes care of his own. Read the whole chapter and you will see that this is not a messianic text. You have to eradicate the context to come to that conclusion, or just read in your own messianic ideas. (which is not a new thing with Christians)

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Zec 12:10 explained above. You’re giving 50 of supposed thousands yet you are already repeating yourself.

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Psalm 22 already covered. ‘Jesus the worm messiah’ (Psalm 22:16)

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Huh? Looks like he ‘carried our sorrows’ not ‘carried our diseases’. I’ll have to keep this one in mind when I get to this passage of the oft-erroneous Matthew. Matthew must have used a first century NIV or something. Is53 – Israel.

October 31, 2007 at 10:55 pm#70080

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,10:22)

Don’t forget the wicked. Its right there in Is 53:9. Since it was a new tomb what wicked person was he sharing the tomb with?

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You made the very same blunder that Morningstar did. But oh well.

This is perhaps the worst one you could have listed because Zec 13 is about a false prophet. Unless of course this was your intention?
——————–
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
——————–
Now tell me, are you really willing to apply this chapter of Zechariah to Jesus?

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33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25…. Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
– Doing the proper computations, the Messiah was supposed to die on April 3, of the year 33 AC (Open Bible pag.833)

For a reasonable (but lengthy) explanation of Daniel 9, check this site out:
http://seventyweeksdaniel.netfirms.com/cover_p….eks.htm

Hey I wonder if April 3, 33 AD was a Friday?

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34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15….. Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
– Hos.6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
– Lk.24:6-7 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

While we are in Hosea 6, here is another answer to what takes the place for sin sacrifices
——————–
Hos 6:6 For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt-offerings.
——————–
Anyway how does this fit Jesus? The verse says “after two days he will revive us”? That doesn’t fit at all. So was Jesus revived after two days and just waiting until the third day for the angel to roll the stone away? Must have been boring sitting in a dark cold tomb for a whole day.

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Whatever became of all these zombies in Mat 27:52-53? That would be interesting to know. If anything was recorded in history about Jesus, this ‘night of the living dead’ should have been one of them!

You DO realize that the dry bones happened at the time of Ezekiel’s prophecy, right? That part was not prophecy but it happened at the time that Ezekiel prophesied. Yeesh.

And that translation of Is 26:19 is totally bogus and quite obvious a tampering of the translation by the KJV translators to try to make Jesus fit into the Jewish bible. Even the LXX doesn’t go that far.
——————–
Isa 26:19 [Apostles] The dead shall rise, and they that are in the tombs shall be raised, and they that are in the earth shall rejoice; for the dew from You is healing to them; but the land of the ungodly shall perish.
——————–
By the way I didn’t see the zombies in Mat 27:52-53 singing or rejoicing.

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36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3…..Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19.
– Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
– Ps.24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
– Lk 24:50-51 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven
– Act.1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken
up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

——————–
Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
——————–
Look at the context. Is there anything about a messiah there? No! What is talked about? YHVH’s glory and his grand appearance on Sinai! The “thou” or “you” is most likely referring to YHWH receiving gifts from men, offerings and sacrifices. He is the one that ascended on high. Everything in the verse is past tense talking of something that has already happened. With the messiah being absent from the context, one has to wonder where anyone got the idea that this was a messianic text. Is it one just because Paul says so? It seems Paul is doing his favourite trick of taking a verse out of context and changing its meaning to back up his ideas, like how did with Deut 30 in Romans 10.

Whatever the case read Ps 68. It is in no form or fashion a messianic passage. Cut-n-paste strikes again.

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Psalm 110 is not messianic, it is about David. Tell me, what does this verse mean then
——————–
Psa 110:5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.
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John the Baptist denied being Elijah. He didn’t seem to want to play the game anymore did he? He even asked if Jesus was really the Messiah or should he seek another. Seems John the Baptist lost the faith in the end too. Might have heard about Jesus wanting people to drink blood.
——————–
Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
——————–
Well if all flesh is to see it I wonder why the historians of Jesus’ time were silent as to his existence? Seems all flesh did not see, so yet another failed prophecy.

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39- Preceded by a forerunner: Mal.3:1, Luk.7:24-27.

The balance of Mal 3 was not fulfilled so nope, not John the Baptist.

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40- Preceded by Elijah: Mal.4:5-6, Matt.11:13-14.

Did you actual read these verses?
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Mal 4:6 And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”
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Maybe John did this but Jesus came after and reversed his good work.
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Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
——————–

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41- Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7, Matt.3:17.

Is this messianic? Possibly but not likely. All of this can easily apply to King David. He is called G-d’s firstborn in Ps 89:27. Israel is begotten b G-d in Deu 32:18. and is called G-d’s firstborn in Ex 4:22. Therefore just another case of making Jesus fit into the Jewish scriptures but as usual doing it out of context.

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42- Galilean Ministry: Is.9:1-2, Matt.4:13-16.

Isaiah 9 is about Hezekiah.

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43- Speaks in Parables: Ps.78:2-4, Matt.13:34-35.

Please read the whole chapter. It really is a wonderful and a fearful thing to read the history of Israel and their deliverance from Egypt and their subsequent rebellion against their deliverer, YHWH. Once you have read the whole chapter, read again the first verses and ask yourself who the “I” is. It is talking about the writer, the person about to recount the history of Israel. Notice that the ‘I’ becomes ‘we. If this is talking about Jesus, has he become a trinity in himself?

There is no hint of a prophecy in the verse or chapter. These words are simply saying that the author is about to recount to the reader or listener some history and this is summed up in the words ‘I will utter dark saying concerning the days of old’.

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44- A Prophet: Deut.18:15, Jn.6:14, Acts 3:20-22.

Yet according to Christians Jesus is either a god in the flesh or an angel or part of a triune god. Was Moses like any of these things? So he was not a prophet like Moses. Besides, did he deliver the people like Moses did? That would be a big ‘negatory’.

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45- Priest after the Order of Melchizedek: Ps.110:4, Heb.5:5-6.

Yet he was never anointed as a priest. Plonk.

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46- To bind up the brokenhearted: Is.61:1-2, Luk.4:18-19.

I need to research this but it is my understanding that in that time period they only read from the To
rah in the synagogues. Isaiah is not from the Torah but the Tanakh! That aside lets look at what Jesus read and what Is 61:1-2 says. I will use the Septuagint since Jesus didn’t seem to know how to read Hebrew.
——————–
Luk 4:18 [Apostles] “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed;
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the LORD.”

Isa 61:1 [Apostles] The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me; He has sent Me to preach the gospel to the poor, to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;
Isa 61:2 to declare the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of recompense; to comfort all that mourn;
——————–
So Jesus, where did ‘to set at liberty those who are oppressed’ come from? Not in the Septuagint! Well maybe he did know Hebrew and used the Jewish scriptures.
——————–
Isa 61:1 [JPS 1917] The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to bring good tidings unto the humble; He hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the eyes to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the year of the LORD'S good pleasure, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
——————–
No ‘to set at liberty those who are oppressed’ in the Jewish either. Seems Jesus was breaking another of G-d’s commandments by adding to scripture.

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47- Rejected by his own people, the Jews: Is.53:3, John 1:11.

Of course he was. He wanted them to drink blood which was against G-d’s Torah. Symbolic blood sure but Jesus seemed to be big on the underlying tone of the Torah why would he change here? Symbolic or not, drinking blood was forbidden by YHVH many times in Torah.

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48- Not believed: Is.53:1, John 12:37.

See above.

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49- Adored by infants: Ps.8:2, Matt.21:15–16.

Ps 8:2 says nothing about being adored by infants. What bible are you reading?!?

Not focusing on the point that the phrase ‘perfected his praise’ is NOT in the Hebrew, but in another translation (an ancient Greek translation), is this messianic verse? Not at all! This is a song of praise not a prophecy. It simply states that YHWH uses the weak things to confound the strong, like the way he chose Israel (Deut 7:7) and David, the youngest son of Jesse (1 Sam 16). The most glorious battles come when the weak, due the strength of YHWH, over come the mighty nations.

This Psalm is about man giving praise to G-d. Are you a Trinitarian?

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50- Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-12.

Yet he never was anointed according to the ritual established by G-d Himself. Whoops.
——————–
Psa 45:7 You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beyond Your companions.
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Can you show me where Jesus was anointed with oil?

October 31, 2007 at 11:17 pm#70087

Participant

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I did not say I did not believe it I said you (who has to prove everything) CAN'T prove what you believe.

I believe the OT the OT gives witness to the coming lamb of God.

Again you are looking for proof but you can't prove the Old Testament we must have faith that these things are so.

Whith the Holy Spirit giving witness to our spirit we KNOW that Jesus IS the Christ. What is your witness that the things in the Old testament are true?

You have none because you don't have the Spirit of the living God!

Again you won't sway those who have met Jesus. BUT on the other hand their may be some who hadn't met the Holy Spirit and depend on books and mens teachings LIKE YOU.

Those who have doubt because they are booked learned and led by the Spirit.

Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

Would you sir start a rumour then die for that lie?

YOU NEVER SUFFICIENTLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION BUT RATHER GAVE THE USUAL BLAH BLAH WHEN ONE HAS NO ANSWER.

Who moved Jesus' body was it your Jewish friends, the Romans, the apostles? Who? IF Jesus was not resurrected then someone moved the body. Was it the apostles who latter died for a lie? I really don't think that it was in the best interest for the priest or Romans to move the body.

THEN WHO?

Either the apostles moved the body then died for their lie OR JESUS THE SON OF GOD WAS RESURRECTED.

Save your excuses …you have NO answer!

October 31, 2007 at 11:55 pm#70090

Participant

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Do you understand the above verse?

Jesus here is explaining that the body and blood He was talking about ARE SPIRITUAL! Were you Catholic? Because you think like you once were then went straight to the Jews because of the harlot.

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mar 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
*Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
*Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
*Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
*Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
*Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
*Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
*Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Just a reminder

Is he shaking your faith? Are you receiving his seeds of doubt? This is the harvest time and the weeds will be pulled up and thrown into the fire.

If possible they will fool the elect.

November 1, 2007 at 3:29 am#70098

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 31 2007,18:17)

Quote

I did not say I did not believe it I said you (who has to prove everything) CAN'T prove what you believe.

Where do you get the idea I have to prove everything? I accept the words of the Jewish bible without proving them. The difference is that the Christian bible is in conflict with the Jewish bible and there is where the problem comes about.

G-d said His Torah was forever. The odd thing is, Jesus supports this in the gospels. That is why I believe Jesus did exist but that he was not the Messiah. I believe he was likely a student of Hillel. Jesus' teaching was against those who were students of Shimmei.

What parts of the Christian bible are true in my opinion? Those that do not contradict the Jewish bible. I know this because G-d said many times to not add or take away from His Torah. What that means is not that more would not be written but that what was written could not do away with or add onto His Torah. Everything had to be in line with Torah.

I do not believe that Jesus ever thought he was the Messiah. Those words were written back into his life. As an observant Jew, Jesus would have known he did not meet the requirements of the promised Moshiach.

I also cannot believe that Jesus would have said anything you find in the Gospel of John. John is perhaps the most blasphemous book in the Christian bible. I have mentioned it often but the passage where he emphasizes over and over the idea of drinking his blood and eating his flesh would have never come out of the mouth of an observant Jew. It is a screaming violation of G-d's Torah.

As to Paul's writings, there is something from the Talmud which speaks of the Noachide Law. That is, the oral Torah which became the Talmud had a set of seven commandments that were given to Noah when he came from the ark. These laws were universal for all mankind since all men from that point came from him and his offspring.

Paul's writings are very very close to these Noachide laws. The problem is he decides to combine them with belief in a man for salvation and this is where he starts conflicting G-d. All throughout the Jewish scripture, G-d calls Himself the only savior. So how can a man come along and be savior? Men can be delivers as Moses was but they cannot save a man's soul. Only G-d has the power to do that. It was G-d who gave us life to begin with only G-d can save us.

That is why Paul likely went to the Gentiles. The Noachide laws are specifically for all of mankind except for the Jews. The Jews bear a greater responsibility as G-d's chosen people and are therefore require to observe 613 mitzvot (commandments). You may think, wow 613 vs. 7! But in actuality, those 7 laws of the noachide covenant can be broken down more extensively just as the 613 mitzvot are really based off of the 10 commandments.

To sum this up, I think there was a Jesus and a Paul. But I think that the things they originally said were taken and twisted by others because of the environment that they were in. Rome and the surrounding areas was not ready for Judaism so they took the originals of Jesus' teaching and added pagan mythologies to make the message more appealing to those people steeped in polytheism and the various pagan practices of the time.

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I believe the OT the OT gives witness to the coming lamb of God.

Again you are looking for proof but you can't prove the Old Testament we must have faith that these things are so.

Whith the Holy Spirit giving witness to our spirit we KNOW that Jesus IS the Christ. What is your witness that the things in the Old testament are true?

Again there is nothing preceding the Tanakh that contradicts it. Yet there are many things in the Christian bible that contradicts the Tanakh. That is the whole problem. You cannot contradict G-d's bible and expect people who study the roots to believe.

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You have none because you don't have the Spirit of the living God!

The idea of a continual indwelling of G-d's Spirit finds its roots in other mythologies of the time of the New Testament writings. It is never anything that was promised by G-d in His Tanakh. It sounds good and makes people feel so spiritual but if this were really so true why is there so much opposition in the Christian faith? If one spirit is supposed to be guiding all and Jesus said that Christians were to be one as he and G-d were one, how can there be so many opposing views? It just isn't possible. And what happens is what you are accusing me of right now. Christians who believe a certain way are convinced that others who do not believe that way are not filled with the spirit. Now tell me that is not true.

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Again you won't sway those who have met Jesus. BUT on the other hand their may be some who hadn't met the Holy Spirit and depend on books and mens teachings LIKE YOU.

I've been reading through some of the threads on here and I was already exposed to things before when I was a Christian. But how many have really met this Jesus? One person will say he is G-d, another will say he is an angel, the next will say he is a man. Can he be all of these?

If you met me and found I was 34, 5'10, 175 lbs with black hair and brown eyes and another person said he also knoew me but said I was 28, 6' 3″, 230 lbs with blonde hair and blue eyes, could both people be right? Too many differences? Well let's get simpler. If you said I was a caucasian male and another person said I was an african american male, could both people be right?

Than if you all believe Jesus is not the same as far as whether he is G-d, man, or angel, and whether he eternally existed with his father or was born when he came from Mary, can you all claim you know the same Jesus?

I think you know the answer.

Who is G-d? He is the G-d of Israel but He is also the G-d of all flesh. No arguments, His Word says so.

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Those who have doubt because they are booked learned and led by the Spirit.

Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

Would you sir start a rumour then die for that lie?

Again you must actually proved they died. Yes many were martyred for Christianity but how many Jews have died since Christianity started? With the exception of recent times, Christianity has been the biggest threat to the Jewish people in 2000 years. More Jews have died and been persecuted because of the anti-semitic nature of the Christian bible than for any other reason.

But even in you own faith people have died for not believing a certain way. The unitarians and arians on this board would have been killed for their views in times past. What kind of religion can make that claim?

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YOU NEVER SUFFICIENTLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION BUT RATHER GAVE THE USUAL BLAH BLAH WHEN ONE HAS NO ANSWER.

Why should I answer a question that I can find no evidence in believing? Just because the Christian bible says Paul was killed does not mean it actually happened.

But again you won't answer my similar question. Why do Muslims kill themselves in suicide bombings for what they believe if it is a lie? When you can answer that you may have the answer to your question.

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What proof is there that Jesus was buried in a tomb and not tossed on a heap of bodies like all of the other crucified Jews? Your question can have no real answer if the one you are asking does not believe the story to begin with.

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THEN WHO?

Either the apostles moved the body then died for their lie OR JESUS THE SON OF GOD WAS RESURRECTED.

Save your excuses …you have NO answer!

You are right because I have no proof that any of it actually happened. If the Christian bible had not contradicted the Torah and Tanakh then I would see the validity of the rest of the stories but when the basis is torn down there isn't much left to truly believe.

November 1, 2007 at 10:52 am#70117

Participant

No suprise that someone has finally questioned the book of Matthew.

There are quite a few passeges that have been changed by men who were on thier own agenda.

There is a very old version of Matthew, that actually does not contradict ANY of the Tenach. This version was written by Sem Tov.

I do not have the details right now, but so you know, there are two people named Shem Tov. The one that is correct is a Hebrew version, prooving that it was originally written in Hebrew! It is actually part of a book Shem Tov wrote on the false Catholic church. I think it was refered to as Dispensation or something like that.

Never the less, the book of Matthew as we know it is tainted by the Scribes, and whom ever else in the Greek that translated as best they could according to their own doctrine.

For those who are blessed to have the Spirit in them, the verses that have been manipulated, will cast doubt when it is read, and the real meaning should shine right through the fog!

Laurel

November 1, 2007 at 10:58 am#70118

Participant

Nehemiah Gordon has written a book called the Greek Jesus vs. the Hebrew Y'shua.

He explains it all in his book.

Nehemiah is one of the few scholars who was put to the task of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He is literate in Hebrew, English, Latin, and Greek. He was born in Chicago IL, and now lives in Israel. He attended college there.

Nehemiah has a website called Kararite Corner I think.

The book is available at http://www.areallyroodawakening.com

Laurel

November 1, 2007 at 11:09 am#70119

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 01 2007,05:58)

Nehemiah Gordon has written a book called the Greek Jesus vs. the Hebrew Y'shua.

He explains it all in his book.

Nehemiah has a website called Kararite Corner I think.

The book is available at http://www.areallyroodawakening.com

Laurel

I've recently seen that title in my research. My local library does not have it (big library) but if it is worthwhile I would like to read it. Thank you for the recommendation.

November 1, 2007 at 11:18 am#70120

Participant

Tow,
I hope you stay on board here. I have a lot to share with you. Please read my post on your thread “who is Jesus?”

I can show you things that no one else here can.

Ken though is on the right track. Be patient with him. He has quite a passion for Elohim, and the Messiah!

You are so correct about Christanity. It is no wonder Jews can not see their Messiah. I didn't either for a long time. The church teaches us to look at the skin, when we need to look inside.

The churches in the US never get to the meat, since they can't even drink all the milk.

I found the bridge. I found the Way that connects us all. That dosen't mean we are all saved, but it is possible.

Please go to http://www.areallyroodawakening. There you will find an agriculturally, and Biblically correct calander as to when YHWH's feasts actually should be kept according to Him and not men. Now that the Jews are back in Israel there is no need to keep the Feasts according to a mathamatical calculation, based on the moon. The first month is when the barley in Jerusalem is in abib.

Laurel

ps. You think Christains are bad. You won't even say YHWH as He commanded. You are also under man's traditions. Our Bibles are tainted because of the Pharisees (Orthodox Jews), who used Adoni in the place of His Name! So most of us still say LORD. SAD, SAD INDEED!!!

November 1, 2007 at 11:28 am#70121

Participant

Laurel,

If you look at my posts I use YHVH quite often. I just remove the 'o' in G-d and occasionally use Hashem. The Orthodox Jews would really like for you to call them Pharisees. Did you know that there is another book that makes a strong point that Jesus was likely a Pharisee? Its called Jesus the Pharisee: A New Look at the Jewishness of Jesus

November 1, 2007 at 2:37 pm#70122

Participant

Quote

Ken though is on the right track. Be patient with him. He has quite a passion for Elohim, and the Messiah!

That's right be patient with me I believe that Jesus IS the Messiah! :laugh:

Here you see the fruit of the letter of the law. They may have a zeal for G_D but don't know the righteousness of God, ROM. 10:1-4.

They wash the outside of the cup but not the Inside. It's what is inside the cup that matters not the outside. It's what comes out of the man that defiles him NOT what goes inside.
It is the Spirit that matters our flesh IS dead. Yet the Letter of the Law is all about the flesh and NOT the Spirit.

They having the letter of the law cannot EVER keep the law through the flesh if that were possible then the sacrificial law would NOT have been added!

We who have accepted Jesus has done so SPIRITUALLY! While those who keep the letter of the law are still trying to justify themselves through the flesh. Is it no wonder that they don't understand anything Spiritual?

Who here believes that if you take the bread and wine that you are eating the body and blood of Christ? We understand that Jesus was speaking of “Spiritual things” but the sower of doubt says we eat and drink the flesh of a man!

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you don't have the Spirit how can you possibly understand Spiritual things? The bible was “inspired” by the Holy Spirit and left with a human touch of mistakes. BUT the foundation the main message “the INSIDE OF THE CUP” is clear to those who have the Spirit of God.

If we all have the same Spirit WHY is their so much division? Because Knowledge was not to increase until the end. Only NOW do we understand that Jesus was in the tomb three days and three nights and was resurrected on the Sabbath and not Sunday. Only now is the truth coming out about the RCC changing the Sabbath day. Only Now do some understand the RCC IS the harlot and other denominations her daughters of Rev. 17.

The call to come out of her is NOW being said in these LAST DAYS “Come out of her MY people”, Rev 18:4. This seems to have been the plan to call out all of Jesus' people in the last day.

Those who are Jesus' People WILL come out of her. It IS harvest time, the garden IS being weeded. Will their be many who come out? I would pray so nevertheless God's will be done.

The remnant (the few) keep the commandments of God AND have the testimony of JESUS.

Why in the last day do the saints “keep the commandments of God AND FAITHin Jesus have patients?

Because in the last day those of the Spirit will be persecuted for keeping the commandments of God and having faith is Jesus.

Attacked from BOTH sides. Those of the letter of the law and those who deny Jesus.

This is the end days and their will be more and more who will come knowing the word as Satan does to plant seeds of doubt. It is time to keep your amour on at all times taking every thought Captive to the obedience of Christ.

God bless all!,

Ken

November 1, 2007 at 6:59 pm#70145