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Hi,
Is 46 YLT
6– They are pouring out gold from a bag, And silver on the beam they weigh, They hire a refiner, and he maketh it a god, They fall down, yea, they bow themselves.7They lift him up on the shoulder, They carry him, and cause him to rest in his place, And he standeth, from his place he moveth not, Yea, one crieth unto him, and he answereth not, From his adversity he saveth him not.
8Remember this, and shew yourselves men, Turn [it] back, O transgressors, to the heart.
9Remember former things of old, For I [am] Mighty, and there is none else, God — and there is none like Me.
My mistake, I quoted the wrong scripture, should be Isaiah.45:7. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and Creator of evil. See “Interlinier Scripture Analyser”, for original Hebrew characters regarding correct literal translation.
Blessings.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 21 2008,05:51) Evil is not a “thing” – like a rock or electricity. You can't have a jar of evil! Rather, evil is something that occurs, like running. Evil has no existence of its own – it is really a lack in a good thing. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole – but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all that existed was good. One of the good things that God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or non-good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it. If I were to ask the average person “does cold exist?” – his/her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 21 2008,01:28) isaiah 45:5-7…lemme explain this scripture to you 'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil.
Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
“And the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (Exodus 4:11).
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).
“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word “rah” (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
Find your nearest concordance and interlinear..for PROOF of what I just wrote
Hi dk.
So when God created the fruit of the tree of “the knowledge Good and Evil” it was just of a physical nature? Your “explanation”, doesn't agree with scripture. God uses evil to accomplish His purpose, He cannot sin. See 1.Sam.16:14 …and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him (Saul). There are other examples as well, but I am short of time and regret I can't recall them at this time. God does use evil to accomplish His purpose, that He will be “All in all”. when man uses evil it is sin, when God uses evil it is for His purpose.Blessings.
Hi,
If God says this about men
James 3:12
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.How dare men accuse Him of being the source of evil.
How dare they charge him with GUILT?Quote (chosenone @ July 10 2008,08:40) Hi dk.
So when God created the fruit of the tree of “the knowledge Good and Evil” it was just of a physical nature? Your “explanation”, doesn't agree with scripture. God uses evil to accomplish His purpose, He cannot sin. See 1.Sam.16:14 …and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him (Saul). There are other examples as well, but I am short of time and regret I can't recall them at this time. God does use evil to accomplish His purpose, that He will be “All in all”. when man uses evil it is sin, when God uses evil it is for His purpose.Blessings.
I agree..to a point..then what does James mean when he says “god does not try us with evil, neither can we try God with it” ?Quote (chosenone @ July 10 2008,18:26) God created evil, scripture says so, Isaiah 45:7. Read it yourself.
isaiah 45:5-7…lemme explain this scripture to you'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil.
Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
“And the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (Exodus 4:11).
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).
“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word “rah” (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
Find your nearest concordance and interlinear..for PROOF of what I just wrote
Again…all I can do is keep showing you all the same two posts…and again I give you this scripture
James 1:13… 13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
James 1:13…13Don't blame God when you are tempted! God cannot be tempted by evil, and he doesn't use evil to tempt others.
James 1:13…13 And remember, when you are being tempted, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God is never tempted to do wrong,[a] and he never tempts anyone else.
James 1:13… 13Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man.
James 1:13… 13Let no one say, being tempted — `From God I am tempted,' for God is not tempted of evil, and Himself doth tempt no one,
I think we should define what is “evil” then only we can understand this complex topic of “good and evil”
Hi DK,
A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God.But God does not do these things.
Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan.
Wikipedia defines evil as:
Quote a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish. Based on this definition I believe it is impossible for the Father to have created evil. To me evil is basically going against God's will.
Now I do believe that God will bring calamities upon man but only for a greater good. The Father motive is always love.
IMO Wm
One point I would like to make as “my personal opinion” is that one of the purposes that God had when making this world was to basically to give satan “enough rope to hang himself” or in other words, to show heavens inhabitants the end results of allowing evil to exist (and consequently why the lake of fire was necessary).
Wm
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK,
A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God.But God does not do these things.
Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan.
Nick….God caused satan to do to Job what he did, It was God who brought up Jobs name in the first place God uses Satan for his work.
Job 42:8 ,,,,…..> and they consoled Him and comforted him for all the (ADVERSITY) that the (LORD) had brought upon Him.,God is the responsible Party for all He brought on Job, including causing Satan to do what He did. God uses Satan for His purposes on earth.
Quote (dirtyknections @ July 11 2008,00:55) Quote (chosenone @ July 10 2008,18:26) God created evil, scripture says so, Isaiah 45:7. Read it yourself.
isaiah 45:5-7…lemme explain this scripture to you'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil.
Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
“And the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (Exodus 4:11).
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).
“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word “rah” (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
Find your nearest concordance and interlinear..for PROOF of what I just wrote
DKGood points!
This is why that the extreme Universalist view that God is the author of sin and wickedness is false.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK,
A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God.But God does not do these things.
Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan.
NHAgreed!
WJ
Quote (seekingtruth @ July 11 2008,10:07) Wikipedia defines evil as: Quote a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish. Based on this definition I believe it is impossible for the Father to have created evil. To me evil is basically going against God's will.
Now I do believe that God will bring calamities upon man but only for a greater good. The Father motive is always love.
IMO Wm
STTrue!
To say that God is in complete control of everything including the one that rapes that little girl is a slap in Gods face!
God hates evil, so how can he be the author of it?
God is not divided against himself, Yeshua says that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
There is a kingdom of darkness and the god of this world (who is not a god at all) is in control of this present cosmos.
God had given man dominion over the earth and man under the control of the kingdom of darkness, brings all this evil and rebellion against the God of heaven. Yeshua the righteous judge will return someday soon and set everything in order.
In the meantime the Spirit and the Bride say come, he is drawing all men.
Let everyman that hears the gospel believe and repent and be saved.
WJ
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