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Hi Mandy,
Thanks for the invitation and beginning of a great controversial subject. I hope DK will be interested in this.
My question to him is: Did God create the tree of good and evil?Love to you Sis
AdamIn order to convey the correct thought in English, the very comprehensive Hebrew word ra‛ is variously translated as “bad,” “gloomy,” “ugly,” “evil,” “calamitous,” “malignant,” “ungenerous,” and “envious,” depending upon the context. (Ge 2:9; 40:7; 41:3; Ex 33:4; De 6:22; 28:35; Pr 23:6; 28:22) The Greek word ka‧kos′ may be defined as that which is (1) morally evil and (2) destructive; among the ways it has been translated are: “bad,” “evil,” “hurtful,” “injurious,” “wrong.” (Ro 7:19; 12:17; Col 3:5; Tit 1:12; Heb 5:14) The Hebrew verb qa‧lal′ means “call down evil upon.
As first used in the Scriptures, the word ra‛ is the very antithesis of good. Adam was commanded not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad (ra‛) and was also warned of the consequences for disobedience. Hence, it is evident that God sets the standard as to what is good and what is bad; it is not within man’s prerogative to do so apart from God. Although Adam transgressed God’s express law, this transgression is not chargeable to GOD, “for with evil things [form of ka‧kos′] God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.”—Jas 1:13, 14; Ge 2:16, 17; 3:17-19.
God brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, GOD is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Then why are you shouting loud that God never created evil or bad?
Without knowing evil or bad you can not understand the importance of good my friend. Without knowing sin where is the question of meaning righteousness? without knowing failure where is the question of knowing success? without knowing disobedience where is the question of knowing obedience?
God has allowed all to come under disobedience so that He can show His grace otherwise you and me can not understand Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. He must have known that the first man Adam will eat the fruit from the tree of good and evil. Every thing is visible and foreknown to God. Not that any thing will happen without the knowledge of God the creator and omniscient.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,14:20) Then why are you shouting loud that God never created evil or bad?
Without knowing evil or bad you can not understand the importance of good my friend. Without knowing sin where is the question of meaning righteousness? without knowing failure where is the question of knowing success? without knowing disobedience where is the question of knowing obedience?
God has allowed all to come under disobedience so that He can show His grace otherwise you and me can not understand Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. He must have known that the first man Adam will eat the fruit from the tree of good and evil. Every thing is visible and foreknown to God. Not that any thing will happen without the knowledge of God the creator and omniscient.
Adam
GM..brother…you are mistaken..again…GOD did not create “moral evil”…that originated with the devil..
Did you even read my posts?
Evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing…
Listen brother…”moral evil” which is what you and Gene are talking about…CAN NOT come from god…NOR DOES HE TRY PEOPLE WITH IT..
This is a very simple concept…just because he set the rules as to what evil was does not mean he created it…
“for with evil things [form of ka‧kos′] God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.”
Do you think Satan is a great fellow and another creator who created evil or bad or sin in this world?
Dk…..All evil is evil and all good is good rather you call it moral or not it's still good and evil.
God created both, without one you could never know the other, evil explains what good is and good explains what evil is the understanding of these is what gives wisdom.
Eve wasn't as dumb as people think, she Knew that experiencing them would produce wisdom, Adam was not deceived but participated anyway, why? because he also knew that the understanding of good and evil would give wisdom. God created man in this form for the specific purpose of learning through experiencing good and evil in our lives.
God is totally sovereign in everything that exists. God wants His children to have knowledge through experiencing good and evil in order to be wise children, Didn't He say look man has become as we are, Knowing good and evil. All of this turns out for our good.
gene
Dk…..> i supplied you with scripture showing God created Good and Evil, it was in answer to your question, have you seen it yet, it was before Mandy moved us there. If you haven't i can retype it here.
peace ………..gene
Interesting subject.
Isaiah 45:6-7. I am Ieue Alueim, and there is non else.
Former of light and Creator of darkness.
Maker of good and Creator of evil.
I, Ieue Alueim, made all these things.God Created evil, can anything exist that is not of God? Answer…No!
Genesis 2:9 …and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
It was Gods intention that they ate of the fruit that they were told not to. (Eph.1:11 God is operating all according to the council of His will.)
Genesis 3:22. And saying is Alueim, “Behold! The human becomes as one of us, knowing good and evil.” (after they ate the fobidden fruit)
I won't elaborate on this subject, Gene and gollamudi did a fine job of it in the previous posts. “Good work, right on”.
Blessings.
Welcome Gene and Jerry to this new thread forced by DK. I know you both will contribute well in this post.
Peace to you
Adamisaiah 45:5-7…lemme explain this scripture to you
'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil.
Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
“And the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (Exodus 4:11).
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).
“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word “rah” (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
Find your nearest concordance and interlinear..for PROOF of what I just wrote
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE…between MORAL EVIL…and CALAMATOUS EVIL…in the bible…grab your concordance and interlinear and see… MORAL EVIL GOD DOES NOT TRY PEOPLE with…but he does cause calamity to fall on people in his just way…
GOd said, “You can not try me with evil [moral] and neither will I try you with evil [moral]”
Again just be cause set the rules ( which he has the right to) does not mean he brought it into existence…
translated: Just because GOD said, “This is what evil [moral] is”…does not mean he CREATED evil [moral]…Moral evil originated with the Devil…
John 8:44 (niv)- 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Until you all recognize the fact that there is more than 1 type of evil mentioned in the bible…and evil of the MORAL kind GOD himself said he will never try you with…this conversation will go in circles
In mystical circles there is the concept of positive and negative evil. Positive evil is that which in the end, serves mankind by giving him friction to lift himself up. Dragons to slay and temptations to overcome, and in so doing become stronger through experience. Negative evil is best summed up by misery loves company, it is a spiritual quicksand that seeks to hold back our advancement and keep us in bondage and ignorance. That is why in many ancient beliefs we had both devils and evil gods. The devils were forces of negative evil and chaos wanting to destroy man while the evil gods sought to test man and punish iniquity.
Gene, Gm, Chosen
To say that God foreordained Jesus from the founding of the world..like you suggest…is to say God pre planned what we see today..Good and Bad…that would make him a sharer in the badness..But we can not “Try God with evil” according to the bible..
So simply put…I can not agree with your theology..because is god Love and evil [moral] does not ORIGINATE with him
DK……everything originates with God, there is nothing that exists without Him, He takes full responsibility for all Good and evil. Or how could He forgive it then. You are limiting God and giving Him only half the credit He has. If you understood that Evil is as necessary as Good is in the balance of Life you would see where we are coming from. God deliberately caused Adam and Eve To fail, in order for them to experience first hand Evil and Good. It was no accident that took place. If it was then God is not (all knowing) and doest not know the (end from the beginning) as scripture says He does. Don't kid yourself Evil is Just as nessary as Good they define each other, without the one you can know the other.
Think about it, it all makes sense….God is SOVEREIGN in all things then and NOW.
IMO….gene
Relegion want you to think so how Adam had a (FREE WILL) and there Choice was Just their doing and nothing else. This is flawed in two respects two It makes God not in control of everything and there by removes His (SOVEREIGNTY) in all things, once you understand God is and was in control of everything that happened then and now you will begin to see why He forgives all of us because He willing subjected us all to evil in order to grow to hate evil and love good. This is all necessary for everyone to experience. It makes us better in the end and thats what God is concerned about it the End of all this. I have found great peace in understanding this and gained patience too. Man kinds future is a lot better the He realizes, not because of mans so called (FREE WILL) Choices but because who Our Heavenly Father Is.
peace to you……….gene
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