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Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,13:33) So Paul trumps Jesus? Interesting. So you are not a Christian, but rather a Paulian?
Hi KJ:The following is consistent with what Paul taught in the scripture that I have quoted regarding Abraham.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.Quote (942767 @ May 02 2008,20:44) Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,13:33) So Paul trumps Jesus? Interesting. So you are not a Christian, but rather a Paulian?
Hi KJ:The following is consistent with what Paul taught in the scripture that I have quoted regarding Abraham.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Not its not, you just think it is. Where does it say you are righteous outside of keeping Yahweh's 613 commandments?Hey 94,
Since Paul never met Jesus while he was alive, what evidence do you have that the voice and light that paul encountered was truly Jesus? If “satan” can disguise himself, what makes you so sure Paul was not being contacted by “satan”?
Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,13:54) Hey 94, Since Paul never met Jesus while he was alive, what evidence do you have that the voice and light that paul encountered was truly Jesus? If “satan” can disguise himself, what makes you so sure Paul was not being contacted by “satan”?
Hi KJ:If it was Satan who spoke to Paul, he would have followed after Satan, but the following scriptures are an example of who he was following:
Quote Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.Quote (942767 @ May 02 2008,21:13) Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,13:54) Hey 94, Since Paul never met Jesus while he was alive, what evidence do you have that the voice and light that paul encountered was truly Jesus? If “satan” can disguise himself, what makes you so sure Paul was not being contacted by “satan”?
Hi KJ:If it was Satan who spoke to Paul, he would have followed after Satan, but the following scriptures are an example of who he was following:
Quote Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ion't see Yahweh in these verses. Could very well be “satan”.Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,14:29) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2008,21:13) Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,13:54) Hey 94, Since Paul never met Jesus while he was alive, what evidence do you have that the voice and light that paul encountered was truly Jesus? If “satan” can disguise himself, what makes you so sure Paul was not being contacted by “satan”?
Hi KJ:If it was Satan who spoke to Paul, he would have followed after Satan, but the following scriptures are an example of who he was following:
Quote Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ion't see Yahweh in these verses. Could very well be “satan”.
Hi KJ:Several of these verses make reference to God or the Spirit of God.
Quote (kejonn @ May 03 2008,14:50) But God is called YHWH in the OT. Where do we see YHWH in the NT?
Hi KJ:I seem to remember that you indicated that YHWH is Jesus daddy.
Quote Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Cr 1:3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2Cr 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
2Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,And God is also my Father.
Also:
The meaning of the name Jesus is:
Quote Number 2424
Transliteration:
Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}
Word Origin:
of Hebrew origin 3091
TDNT:
3:284,360
Part of Speech:
proper name masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1Total: 975
Definition:
Jesus = “Jehovah is salvation”
Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor
Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ
Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
Jesus Barabbas was the captive robberMy son just came to me and asked about all the Kings of Israel. He's been reading his bible before bed.
He recounted for me the stories of the many Kings who died and who were replaced by other's and then they died (they were murdered and so on). After about 10 minutes of chatting my son says to me, “Mom, there was a lot of murder in the bible. And one thing I don't get – when God punished the person who did something wrong, he punished their whole family. If that person died, the whole family died. God killed a lot of people because they disobeyed. I don't get that.”
Well, guess what? I don't get it either….
When a child starts to see all the violence and killing that represents the God we tell them loves them….it's hard reconcile the two “Gods” – the mean God and the loving God.
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2008,17:11) My son just came to me and asked about all the Kings of Israel. He's been reading his bible before bed. He recounted for me the stories of the many Kings who died and who were replaced by other's and then they died (they were murdered and so on). After about 10 minutes of chatting my son says to me, “Mom, there was a lot of murder in the bible. And one thing I don't get – when God punished the person who did something wrong, he punished their whole family. If that person died, the whole family died. God killed a lot of people because they disobeyed. I don't get that.”
Well, guess what? I don't get it either….
When a child starts to see all the violence and killing that represents the God we tell them loves them….it's hard reconcile the two “Gods” – the mean God and the loving God.
Sounds like a pretty perceptive young man. Of course he needs to be born again to stop him from asking such pesky questions in the future.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2008,00:11) My son just came to me and asked about all the Kings of Israel. He's been reading his bible before bed. He recounted for me the stories of the many Kings who died and who were replaced by other's and then they died (they were murdered and so on). After about 10 minutes of chatting my son says to me, “Mom, there was a lot of murder in the bible. And one thing I don't get – when God punished the person who did something wrong, he punished their whole family. If that person died, the whole family died. God killed a lot of people because they disobeyed. I don't get that.”
Well, guess what? I don't get it either….
When a child starts to see all the violence and killing that represents the God we tell them loves them….it's hard reconcile the two “Gods” – the mean God and the loving God.
Just give him the standard answer: “Honey, God is the God of love, but he is also a just God”. It never quite rang true with me but it seems to be enough for others.Well, we continued to read 2 Kings this morning…..he is facinated with all the Kings and what God tells them to do. Great.
When I told my husband that our son was questioning why the God of the OT kills a lot and the God of the NT seems to be more about “turning the other cheek”, he just said, “Tell him that there are two different covenants.”
OK. I get that. But isn't it the same God? Hmmmm
Quote (david @ May 31 2008,12:36) judgment where needed, mercy wherever possible.
David,I want to believe this too.
But some of the questions my son had were pretty basic. Like why did God order that man's family to be killed along with him? He was the one who sinned – why did God kill his wife and children?
Sigh…..
Why would the God we love do such a thing?
Quote (david @ May 31 2008,12:36) judgment where needed, mercy wherever possible.
Attempting to hang on to god's ark earns death. How does Uzzah's slaughter count as mercy OR justice?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 31 2008,22:01) Quote (david @ May 31 2008,12:36) judgment where needed, mercy wherever possible.
Attempting to hang on to god's ark earns death. How does Uzzah's slaughter count as mercy OR justice?Stuart
That ark could have fallen on Uzzah and paralyzed him for life.
Killing him was merciful.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ May 31 2008,23:06) Quote (Stu @ May 31 2008,22:01) Quote (david @ May 31 2008,12:36) judgment where needed, mercy wherever possible.
Attempting to hang on to god's ark earns death. How does Uzzah's slaughter count as mercy OR justice?Stuart
That ark could have fallen on Uzzah and paralyzed him for life.
Killing him was merciful. Tim
The Judeo-christian god believes in euthanasia?Why are so many of his followers in such conflict with that divine expression?
Stuart
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