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Quote (david @ April 28 2008,15:45) Quote The Bible is a combination of only 66 books, with isolated incidents spanning 1000s of years. How does that even compare to the millions possibly billions of incidents of hideous crimes committed on humanity while God sits in the heavens watching and does nothing about it? –WJ
My comments to some of these posts are similar.
Do these ones get angry at judges when they put criminals away? Do they think: “Let each be free and do whatever he wishes”? Apparently, they do. Apparently,they know better than God.
Show me outside of the bible where Yahweh is doing any of the things the bible speaks about. When you can, then discuss this further. Until then, you're just taking some old Hebrew's word for it.Quote How many million suffer each day at the hands of the wicked?
How can millions suffer every day regardless?Quote Yet, we can't let God do anything about that, because that would be wrong.
Show us where Yahweh is doing anything outside of the bible.Quote What? All the suffering and injustices of the world have been by man's hands. If God has determined to step in and put an end to the wicked, those who don't want to know their father, then that is his (as the Creators) right.
But it has been 2000 years since Jesus. Even longer since the OT. Where has Yahweh been in all of the time since then? What about the hundreds of past generations that did not have Yahweh stepping in and cleaning house? How long will generations come and go before this supposed judgment will fall?Quote What is more, it is the only just thing that can be done. The lake of fire symbolized complete destruction. The smoke of this destruction will symbolically last forever. (Obviously, it won't be smoking forever, just as the evidence of Sodom and Gomaorahs destruction didn't last forever, but it was spoken of in that way) All memory of those who don't want to be on God's side, who unknowingly choose to side with the “opposer/resister” will be forgotten.
“Distress will not rise up a second time.”–Can't' remember which scripture.
So, who is on God's side, David? Those who believe Yahweh is an accurate representation of our Creator and Jesus died for our sins? All the others — Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, B'hai, Hindues, Taoists, agnostics, etc. will be thrown in the lake of fire for not believing — or ever even hearing of — the Christian bible?Quote (942767 @ April 28 2008,17:35) Hi KJ; I said that I did not intend to answer any more of your posts, but I would really like to do what I can to answer your questions as best that I can by giving you my understanding.
You ask:
Quote Butting in…but when is Yahweh holding wicked people accountable, in the afterlife? In the meantime, does he do absolutely nothing here? He seemed to be very active in the OT, but even certain scholars recognized that Yahweh was less and less present as time passed in the OT. I have already answered when God will hold the wicked of the NT era who do not repent accountable, but I will restate this for you. Those who are alive at the coming of the Lord for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those in the NT era who have died in their sins prior to the coming of the Lord for the church will be resurrected in the second resurrection and will be judged according to their works. This is called the second death which is eternal separation from God.
Jesus died the first death or spiritual separation for all of humanity, and so, the judgment for those who come to God through Him is not guilty.
We who are born again Christians are members of the body of Christ and we are subjected to God through our Lord Jesus. It is through us that God is doing what he can about the wickedness in the earth at the present time.
How so? By telling them they need Jesus? That's no solution to the world's various moral dilemmas, not when the various churches seem to have pedophiles, alcoholics, drug users, and adulterers in the pulpit.Quote The gospel is being preached to every one who will hear and with that the warning that there is a day of judgment coming.
That's fine, but will they need to accept Jesus too? What if someone hears of Jesus but then fails to accept him for any one of several reasons? Will that person still be judged in the same manner as another who has not heard?Quote Through the body of Christ God is doing what He can to relieve the oppressed from which some of the wickedness stems. More needs to be done, but it is our responsibility to do this in obedience to God.
How is the body of Christ combating wickedness, by building churches on every street corner while parishioners drive past orphanages and soup kitchens every Sunday so they can learn to be more like Jesus?Quote Law enforcement is also seen as ministers of God. Quote Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Did secular laws originate from the OT? No, the Code of Harrumabi preceded the OT by hundreds of years.Quote Quote And you say: Quote No, not God's fault. Yours. It is your choice.
Why is it her fault? Because the only proof of Jesus is in a book with anonymous authors?Wrong, the proof is in the pudding:
Quote Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Quote Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.Must stop right there. This verse is very telling. In its years since inception, Christianity has brought forth much bad fruit. Just look at history. Thus, by rights, the tree of Christianity should be hewn down and thrown in the fire. A good tree does not bring forth corrupt fruit Christianity has brought forth much corruption .
Quote Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The will of Yahweh in the OT was to kill everyone in the way to the promised land. I guess Christians kept up the act by killing those who would not accept Jesus?Quote Quote Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Quote Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no la
w.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.Quote 1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.We have spoken already of prophecies like Isaiah 53 which you and others may deny that it relates to Jesus, but I know these scriptures are about Him.
You know, and others disagree. So obviously, your view is right, yes? To you, but not to others.Quote (kejonn @ April 29 2008,12:45) Quote (942767 @ April 28 2008,17:35) Hi KJ; I said that I did not intend to answer any more of your posts, but I would really like to do what I can to answer your questions as best that I can by giving you my understanding.
You ask:
Quote Butting in…but when is Yahweh holding wicked people accountable, in the afterlife? In the meantime, does he do absolutely nothing here? He seemed to be very active in the OT, but even certain scholars recognized that Yahweh was less and less present as time passed in the OT. I have already answered when God will hold the wicked of the NT era who do not repent accountable, but I will restate this for you. Those who are alive at the coming of the Lord for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those in the NT era who have died in their sins prior to the coming of the Lord for the church will be resurrected in the second resurrection and will be judged according to their works. This is called the second death which is eternal separation from God.
Jesus died the first death or spiritual separation for all of humanity, and so, the judgment for those who come to God through Him is not guilty.
We who are born again Christians are members of the body of Christ and we are subjected to God through our Lord Jesus. It is through us that God is doing what he can about the wickedness in the earth at the present time.
How so? By telling them they need Jesus? That's no solution to the world's various moral dilemmas, not when the various churches seem to have pedophiles, alcoholics, drug users, and adulterers in the pulpit.Quote The gospel is being preached to every one who will hear and with that the warning that there is a day of judgment coming.
That's fine, but will they need to accept Jesus too? What if someone hears of Jesus but then fails to accept him for any one of several reasons? Will that person still be judged in the same manner as another who has not heard?Quote Through the body of Christ God is doing what He can to relieve the oppressed from which some of the wickedness stems. More needs to be done, but it is our responsibility to do this in obedience to God.
How is the body of Christ combating wickedness, by building churches on every street corner while parishioners drive past orphanages and soup kitchens every Sunday so they can learn to be more like Jesus?Quote Law enforcement is also seen as ministers of God. Quote Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Did secular laws originate from the OT? No, the Code of Harrumabi preceded the OT by hundreds of years.Quote Quote And you say: Quote No, not God's fault. Yours. It is your choice.
Why is it her fault? Because the only proof of Jesus is in a book with anonymous authors?Wrong, the proof is in the pudding:
Quote Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Quote Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.Must stop right there. This verse is very telling. In its years since inception, Christianity has brought forth much bad fruit. Just look at history. Thus, by rights, the tree of Christianity should be hewn down and thrown in the fire. A good tree does not bring forth corrupt fruit Christianity has brought forth much corruption .
Quote Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The will of Yahweh in the OT was to kill everyone in the way to the promised land. I guess Christians kept up the act by killing those who would not accept Jesus?Quote Quote Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Quote Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.Quote 1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.We have spoken already of prophecies like Isaiah 53 which you and others may deny that it relates to Jesus, but I know these scriptures are about Him.
You know, and others disagree. So obviously, your view is right, yes? To you, but not to others.
Oh well, I tried. While it is true, that there are many who have given Christianity a bad name, it is also true that not every one who says that they are a Christian practice what they proclaim to be, and God has seen this and hates hypocrisy.As the scripture states: Not every one who says, “Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of the Father”.
Quote (942767 @ April 28 2008,20:50) Oh well, I tried. While it is true, that there are many who have given Christianity a bad name, it is also true that not every one who says that they are a Christian practice what they proclaim to be, and God has seen this and hates hypocrisy.
Tell me, at what point are you a hypocrite? What makes you more of a Christian than any other?Quote As the scripture states: Not every one who says, “Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of the Father”.
So who will enter into the kingdom? What assures you that you will be among the “chosen”?Quote (kejonn @ April 29 2008,14:59) Quote (942767 @ April 28 2008,20:50) Oh well, I tried. While it is true, that there are many who have given Christianity a bad name, it is also true that not every one who says that they are a Christian practice what they proclaim to be, and God has seen this and hates hypocrisy.
Tell me, at what point are you a hypocrite? What makes you more of a Christian than any other?Quote As the scripture states: Not every one who says, “Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of the Father”.
So who will enter into the kingdom? What assures you that you will be among the “chosen”?
Hi KJ:I have already defined who is a hypocrite, but if you didn't get it, maybe you can just look it up in the dictionary. I am no more of a Christian than any other Christian and the definition of a Christian is someone who is striving to obey the commandments that have come from God to humanity through God's Son and His Christ. I make mistakes, but when I do, I repent and ask God to forgive me. It is by the shed blood Jesus that my sins are washed away.
And it is because my Lord live forever to make intercession for me when I fall short, that I am postive that I will be chosen. I will never go back to the life style of practicing sin wilfully. There is nothing in this world that will make me turn my back on someone who suffered all that he did in my behalf.
True happiness come only through a right relationship with God. It is a privilege and honor to be His son.Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,11:33) Mandy, there is nothing you can do to “tick me off”. I love you and want the very best that God has to offer for you and your family
Bro,Thank you. This is comforting to know that I can speak my mind (which I frequently change) to you and not be cast aside for causing you to be angry with me. That really means a lot to me. And it really shows your maturity in the LORD.
Love,
MandyHi WhatIsTrue
Quote Here's a question for you:
Do you think you are a member of a special club that is exempt from exhibiting any form of manners when interacting with strangers?
Indeed I have been very rude about the shower of lying charletans that call themselves creation ‘scientists’ and have been quite unpleasant to 94…. about his brutal views about his fellow humans to give two examples, but in what way have I been less than polite with you?Quote Bonus question:
Can you quote a single statement from any of my recent posts that would lead you to believe that I am of the opinion that God will condemn 2/3 of the population. (Hint: Questions are not statements. In the context of this forum, questions, more often than not, are tools to discover what the questionee, not the questioner, believes.)
Should I take it then that in response to my question you do not consider yourself a member of a club of 1/3 of humanity who are praying in the right manner to the right god?Stuart
Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,11:33?[/quote)
Hi Mandy:Again, children are the responsibility of the parents, and that is the way that God looks at this. The destruction of the children of the wicked is punishment to the parents.
He is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice. Hogwash to you, but not to me.
Dear 942767,If God is a god of Justice (The principle or ideal of moral rightness and equity, the quality of being fair and impartial) and I agree that he his, how is it justice for the children of wicked parents who are destroyed for being born to bad parents? Are they not human individuals also? It is not nor can it be. So if ordering the killing of infants, even those of wicked parents, is injust and God being Just would not condone such, then the answer is that scripture has misrepresented God, at least in this case. Along this line does it not also seem unlikely that a being who created all mankind and supposedly loves all his creation would pick a “chosen people” (amazing coincidence that the group who claims that status are the authors of the works stating such).
Any time that I have questioned how a loving God could do some of the terrible things that the bible claims that
God did, I have been given that same rehearsed answer. “He is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice.”I could never stretch my imagination enough to see justice displayed in the murdering of innocent women and children
who happened to be in the way of some marauding desert tribe who wanted to steal their land.
I have often felt that something is sadly astray in the moral fibre of anyone who can.Tim:(
Dear 942767,
If God is a god of Justice (The principle or ideal of moral rightness and equity, the quality of being fair and impartial) and I agree that he his, how is it justice for the children of wicked parents who are destroyed for being born to bad parents? Are they not human individuals also? It is not nor can it be. So if ordering the killing of infants, even those of wicked parents, is injust and God being Just would not condone such, then the answer is that scripture has misrepresented God, at least in this case. Along this line does it not also seem unlikely that a being who created all mankind and supposedly loves all his creation would pick a “chosen people” (amazing coincidence that the group who claims that status are the authors of the works stating such).[/quote]
Hi Cato:At some point after my born again experience, I was contending with God because it appeared to me, based on the scriptures, that very few would be saved, and he spoke to me in an audible voice, saying “I gave my life for my people. What will you give me for yours?”
God has given us our Lord Jesus as a propitiation for our sins and he has set an example for us in how to live our life to be in right standing with God, and he won't force anyone to be reconciled to Him. In a like manner as a Christian, I can set an example as I learn to follow Christ for my family and others who see the life that I live to follow, and I can teach them my understanding of the scriptures if they want to learn. I can also pray for them, but if they come to God for any reason other than because that is what they want to do, it will be for the wrong motive.
And so, this is what God meant by what He said to me. In essence, as Jesus said, it was God who was doing the works through him, and so it is God in the person of Jesus Christ whose character we have seen through the life that Jesus lived. God has tasted death for us in the person of Jesus Christ.
Neither He nor I want to see anyone destroyed including and expecially children, and so what I can do I am doing, by preaching he gospel to whomever will hear, and warning also of the impending judgment to come.
What should we do about all the “bad parents” that are in the earth today? Should we go and take the children away from them and raise them ourselves? Or maybe we should do something to prevent them from having anymore children if we see that they are setting a bad example for their children to follow?
As I have stated, I do not want to see anyone destroyed and I am doing what I can. Do you and any others who read this on this forum want to join me, or do you want to continue to accuse me and God because apparently, you have a better plan.
It is the same concept with the “so called God's chosen people”. They were to be an example as God's people to then world even as we as Christians are to be the “light of the world or the salt of the earth”, and example to the world that God may be glorified through the life that we live.
God did not choose them because of their righteousness, but He had to start with a people to instruct them in righteousness. God's promise to Abraham is that “in Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is the promised child and typifies Jesus the promised Messiah through whom Abraham's seed is being called today. Isaac had two sons, Jacob who wrestled with God and became Israel, and Esau who sold his birth-rite. There is a lot of symbolism in the OT. Esau represents those who did not believe the gospel and therefore are not born again. They sold their birth-rite.
Quote Deut 7:6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;Quote Deut 9:3Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
4Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
5Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.Hi Cato:
I tried to respond to your post. But when I posted, the above post is what I got. I have reported this to the moderator. I will try to do this again later.
Quote (TimothyVI @ April 30 2008,01:02) I have often felt that something is sadly astray in the moral fibre of anyone who can.
Boy, you said it. However, these folks are conditioned by their doctrine. Fear is the glue that keeps them stuck in it.They make the mistake of thinking this glue is respect and honor to let God be God – whatever the dried ink says goes! I don't believe it. I used to. I used to be too afraid not to.
Quote (TimothyVI @ April 30 2008,01:02) Any time that I have questioned how a loving God could do some of the terrible things that the bible claims that
God did, I have been given that same rehearsed answer. “He is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice.”I could never stretch my imagination enough to see justice displayed in the murdering of innocent women and children
who happened to be in the way of some marauding desert tribe who wanted to steal their land.
I have often felt that something is sadly astray in the moral fibre of anyone who can.Tim:(
Surely an important reason to be christian for many is the justice god brings, given the apparent lack of justice in life. Maybe though I am missing something here. There are churches in which you will never hear the OT read aloud despite it being 'good to teach'. This OT god would seem to be a problem for many justice-loving christians.Stuart
Quote (Cato @ April 29 2008,23:24) 942767,April wrote:Dear 942767,
If God is a god of Justice (The principle or ideal of moral rightness and equity, the quality of being fair and impartial) and I agree that he his, how is it justice for the children of wicked parents who are destroyed for being born to bad parents? Are they not human individuals also? It is not nor can it be. So if ordering the killing of infants, even those of wicked parents, is injust and God being Just would not condone such, then the answer is that scripture has misrepresented God, at least in this case. Along this line does it not also seem unlikely that a being who created all mankind and supposedly loves all his creation would pick a “chosen people” (amazing coincidence that the group who claims that status are the authors of the works stating such).
Hi Cato, Tim, Mandy, Stu and if there are any others:I am not swayed by your opinion of God and of me because I have given you my understanding of God's motivation for destroying the children of the wicked. It is typical of mankind beginning with Adam to blame someone else rather than to take the responsibility for his own actions. Neither God nor I am very happy to see anyone destroyed. They the parents who supposedly loved their children then and now had and have the opportunity to repent. Children are the responsibility of the parents. The parents obviously did not love them enough to turn away from their wicked ways.
And so, now we have the gospel that is being preached through out the earth along with a warning of impending judgment. Would you like repent and come to God and have all of your sins forgiven, and learn to live according to the commandments that He has given us through my Lord Jesus so that you can teach your children also or would you rather go on complaining against God and you and your children end up being destroyed as well.
I am doing every thing that I can by sharing the gospel and whatever else God has put in my possession to let people know how wonderful and merciful God is. For the wages of sin is death, and the gift of God is eternal life in and through Christ Jesus God's only begotten Son and His Christ. It is your choice and with that choice comes the responsibility for your decision and how that may affect your children and any of your relationships for that matter.
Cato, you asked a question about why God had a chosen people. The calling was to Abraham and to his seed. God chose Abraham because God knew that He would be obedient.
Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?Quote Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.In order for God to have a people for Himself, He must have those who will listen to His instruction. It is through His people that God is able to reach the rest of humanity. The Nation of Israel(I speak here of the Israel of God) then and now is to be an example to all of humanity. But the scripture states than not all of Abraham's children are his seed, but only those who walk the same faithfulness to God as did Abraham. And in the body of Christ, we are the seed of Abraham.
Quote Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.Quote Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And so, today children of Christians and of the wicked die every day, and it is the parents who will be resurrected and will be judged in the second resurrection if they die prior to the coming of the Lord for the church. But there is a day of judgment coming when the door will be shut and there will be no more opportunity to preach the gospel and to warn anyone of this judgment.
Do you want to join me in doing all that we can to reach them or do you just want to go on complaining of God's injustice?
I know what I am going to do with you or without you.
Quote (Stu @ April 29 2008,12:24) Hi WhatIsTrue Quote Here's a question for you:
Do you think you are a member of a special club that is exempt from exhibiting any form of manners when interacting with strangers?
Indeed I have been very rude about the shower of lying charletans that call themselves creation ‘scientists’ and have been quite unpleasant to 94…. about his brutal views about his fellow humans to give two examples, but in what way have I been less than polite with you?Quote Bonus question:
Can you quote a single statement from any of my recent posts that would lead you to believe that I am of the opinion that God will condemn 2/3 of the population. (Hint: Questions are not statements. In the context of this forum, questions, more often than not, are tools to discover what the questionee, not the questioner, believes.)
Should I take it then that in response to my question you do not consider yourself a member of a club of 1/3 of humanity who are praying in the right manner to the right god?Stuart
Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive, but it seemed like you were jumping down my throat about condemnation for asking another person a few questions about his beliefs.In any case, I abandoned the belief in “hell” for all those who don't “get it right” in this life years ago. At present, I don't know exactly what I believe about life beyond the here and now, but I am keenly interested in the discussion.
Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,15:45) Neither God nor I am very happy to see anyone destroyed.
Deu 28:63 “Just as the LORD has found great pleasure in helping you to prosper and multiply, the LORD will find pleasure in destroying you, until you disappear from the land you are about to enter and occupy.Quote (kejonn @ April 30 2008,10:44) Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,15:45) Neither God nor I am very happy to see anyone destroyed.
Deu 28:63 “Just as the LORD has found great pleasure in helping you to prosper and multiply, the LORD will find pleasure in destroying you, until you disappear from the land you are about to enter and occupy.
Hi KJ:Please read all of that scripture in context. God's motivation for allowing the Nation of Israel's enemies against them when they defiantly disobeyed His commandments was to get them to repent. This happened over and over again in the OT when Israel would disobey and then repent when God allowed their enemies to overtake them.
Quote Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 ¶ But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 ¶ Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?Quote (942767 @ April 30 2008,08:45) Do you want to join me in doing all that we can to reach them or do you just want to go on complaining of God's injustice?
Brother,I admire you, and I have the utmost respect for you. There was a time when I wouldn't have thought twice about putting my arm in yours and making a stand for the gospel. I was the one out on the street corner beckoning them in.
But now I need to understand what it is I'm advertising. And so far the answers are not adequate for my understanding yet. Thanks for trying though, you deserve an award for the one with the most patience.
Press on bro,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ April 30 2008,12:11) Quote (942767 @ April 30 2008,08:45) Do you want to join me in doing all that we can to reach them or do you just want to go on complaining of God's injustice?
Brother,I admire you, and I have the utmost respect for you. There was a time when I wouldn't have thought twice about putting my arm in yours and making a stand for the gospel. I was the one out on the street corner beckoning them in.
But now I need to understand what it is I'm advertising. And so far the answers are not adequate for my understanding yet. Thanks for trying though, you deserve an award for the one with the most patience.
Press on bro,
Mandy
Hi Mandy:Respect is something that is earned and not demanded, and so if not now, I hope that someday I will earn the respect of others.
Patience is something that is learned through dealing with adversity and through waiting on the Lord's promises.
We could not become like Jesus unless we have somewhere to put the Word of God into practice.
Quote 1Cr 13:4 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Cr 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Cr 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truthQuote Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.Quote Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 ¶ Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Mandy, I love you and want the very best that God has to offer for you and your family. I am praying for you.
Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,18:16) Quote (kejonn @ April 30 2008,10:44) Quote (942767 @ April 29 2008,15:45) Neither God nor I am very happy to see anyone destroyed.
Deu 28:63 “Just as the LORD has found great pleasure in helping you to prosper and multiply, the LORD will find pleasure in destroying you, until you disappear from the land you are about to enter and occupy.
Hi KJ:Please read all of that scripture in context. God's motivation for allowing the Nation of Israel's enemies against them when they defiantly disobeyed His commandments was to get them to repent. This happened over and over again in the OT when Israel would disobey and then repent when God allowed their enemies to overtake them.
Ah, the plea to context. Many times that works. But the bible goes on record and claims Yahweh will find pleasure in destroying people.No context needed.
Ever heard a parent who said “This is going to hurt me more than it does you”? I have. But I never heard a loving parent say he/she would take pleasure in punishing a child.
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