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Quote (david @ April 01 2006,21:58) 1 CORINTHIANS 10:12
“Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.”Notice who this following scripture was addressed to, and what it says:
HEBREWS 3:1,12-14
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus. . . .Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of YOU a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God; but keep on exhorting one another each day, as long as it may be called “Today,” for fear any one of YOU should become hardened by the deceptive power of sin. For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we make fast our hold on the confidence we had at the beginning FIRM TO THE END,”
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.So if your saved and blaspheme the Holy Spirit then your name will be blotted out?
Hi Kenrch,
The Spirit is planted as a seed in us. It needs to be watered regularly by the Word received into us as food and we need to be wary of the birds of the air that would steal that seed. We must allow that seed to grow unto a plant that is useful to God such that others can rest in our branches. We must submit ourselves in prayer and pick our cross daily.
We must eventually allow ourselves to be completely led by that Spirit [Gal 5.25]as Christ and the apostles were such that God's will is always done through us. When we are led by that Spirit then we cannot blaspheme against that spirit because he is in control of our lives.Quote When we are led by that Spirit then we cannot blaspheme against that spirit because he is in control of our lives.
Did you not read what Paul said to the “holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling”? Did he not say: “Beware, brothers, for fear…”?
Or were these “holy brothers” not really led by the spirit?Hi David,
Peter was. Paul was. John and the apostles were. Many others were infants in need of baby cares as Paul was giving them. The letters to Galatians and Romans were written to plead with Jewish converts not to turn back and attempt again to receive salvation by the works of the Law. Their ongoing need for teaching shows they are yet immature.
Heb 5.12f
” For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles odf God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the christ let us press on to maturity..”The big question I guess is what is the thing that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
In the context of Jesus words in Matthew, he had just finished demonstrating the power of the Word of God and the response was to label him as devil possessed.
Let me explain, Heb 4:12 declares the Word is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Jesus demonstrated this fact to them, and their answer was to accuse him of being a mind reader, one who has a familiar spirit.
That would seem to be the blasphemy he was referring to in that instance, which he gave them a concession for.Hi Malcolm,
Yes Jesus was using the Gift of the Spirit within him, specifically Word of Knowledge, which he also used with the woman at the well.
To blaspheme [or lie to or grieve etc] the Spirit of God is to blaspheme against God Himself. Since God is greater than Jesus the penalty is harsher than blasphemy against the Son of Man.It says in the writing of Paul that they (Israel of Jesus day) were blinded for our sakes. I understood that to be the reason Jesus gave them concession at that time. Forgive them Father for they do not know what they are doing…
My understanding is that the works Jesus did, including word of knowledge were the Father's working through Him. He came not in His own name, not to do his own will.Hi Malcolm,
In Mk 3.22f he called the scribes aside who had been saying he had lost his senses, was possessed and he worked by Beelzebub and he warned them against blasphemy against the Spirit which had been speaking and working through him.
So that must be what he was tallking about I would have thought given the context.To oppose God is unwise.Yes I agree.
Yet Paul before his conversion was in the same boat. Is it a case of God winks at ignorance?
I think that many times even the saved find themselves working against the purpose of God, unwittingly.
But there is a sin that is spoken of I think in 1 John that is not to be prayed for, and here Jesus says (in Matthew) it will never be forgiven, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit…Hi ,
I agree. But if the saved keep walking according to the light of the Word their feet will be healed.[Heb 12.13]Hi sandra,
Here is a forum on salvation and there are many others. We prefer to discuss and teach these things.But trinity is so outrageously 'out there' as far as beliefs go it is great example of what man can get away with. It is amazing how a powerful few can dominate the beliefs of so many.
It reminds me so much of the childrens tale about the Emperor with no clothes that only a child was honest enough to see and state.
As an example of biblical truth it has no features to commend it, in fact it goes so far away from a biblical base it almost destroys the faith of those who would honestly seek truth.
Hi,
This is the canned gospel of salvation according to the godsaidmansaid site“Are you ready to make a decision for the King of Glory? You'll never make a decision of greater magnitude and benefit. It does not exist. Follow me now, audibly in the sinner's prayer,
Dear God, I come unto you a sinner. I ask forgiveness for my sins. I believe that Jesus Christ, your only begotten son, shed his blood to break the bondage of the sin in my life and that his blood and only his blood can wash away my sins. Wash me clean in the blood of Christ. I promise to follow Jesus Christ with all my might from this day forth. Thank you God for saving my soul. Thank you for making me a new creature. In Jesus name I pray, believing it's done. Amen.
Welcome to the commonwealth of Israel. Congratulations, you are born-again, you are a child of God and today is the best day of your life”Is this following Jesus or abiding in the Word?
Hi H,
From the other post you said
“It is very easy Nick. The one lie you told is etched into my memory. We were discussion water baptism. Your stand was that a man was not saved until he was baptized by water. When proven wrong, you agree to it. Yet, it was as if you had a lapse of memory or something, you reverted back to saying that a man must be baptized in water to be saved. When confronted that you flip flopped, you denied it. You know as well as I do what I am referring to. So what it came down to is this, the one day you stood on water baptism saves, then you agreed, once shown through scripture that it was not the water baptism that saves that water baptism does not save. Then you turned again to saying that water baptism does save. When I confronted you about it, you said you never made the claim the water baptism was not need to be saved. As soon as pointed out that you were lying, I was off the forum.”Starting from the beginning.
I indeed said baptism saves you because that is what scripture says in the KJV.
1Peter 3
“In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—”again
NASB
“Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–“again
Youngs
“21also to which an antitype doth now save us — baptism,”Then I pointed out that in the context of the whole bible also repentance saves, faith saves ,and we need the Spirit to seal our salvation.
As Peter himself said in Acts 2
“37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. “
So in the context of the whole bible baptism ALONE does not save you.
Neither does
repentance ALONE
faith ALONE
Spirit baptism ALONEALL SAVE US
Hi,
From an article by Hy Pickering.“Dr. Wilbur Chapman, the famous Evangelist, who preached in many lands, thus relates how he was born again.
“When the great evangelist, D. L. Moody, called for an after-meeting I was one of the first to enter the room, and to my great joy, Mr. Moody came and sat down beside me. I confessed that I was not quite sure that I was saved. He handed me his opened Bible and asked me to read John 5:24; and trembling with emotion I read: 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.'
“He said to me: 'Do you believe this?' I answered, 'Certainly.' He said, 'Are you a Christian?' I replied, 'Sometimes I think I am, and again I am fearful.' 'Read it again,' he said. Then he repeated his two questions, and I had to answer as before. Then Mr. Moody inquired: 'Whom are you doubting?' and then it all came to me with startling suddenness.
“'Read it again,' said Moody, and for the third time he asked: 'Do you believe it?' I said, 'Yes, indeed I do.' 'Well, are you a Christian?' and I answered, 'Yes, Mr. Moody, I am.' From that day to this I have never questioned my acceptance with God.”
Copied by Stephen Ross for WholesomeWords.org from Twice-Born Men: True Conversion Records of 100 Well-Known Men in All Ranks of Life compiled by Hy. Pickering. London: Pickering & Inglis, [193-?]”
Belief alone?
Who would agree these men are obeying God in their teaching of the salvation available through the gospel of Jesus Christ?Hi,
Paul's testimony.
Acts 22
“6And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Now when was Paul washed by the blood and his sins forgiven?
Was it when he heard and believed and obeyed?Acts 9
” 8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.”
Or was it three days later when God washed his cup when his pleading for forgiveness in submission to water baptism happened?[1Peter 3]
Is salvation by faith alone?
ps,
Which fits with 1 Peter 3
” 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, “Hi H,
You said in another thread
“Nick, I believe it is essential also that we should have all the baptisms. On this I am in complete agreement. What I am in disagreement with you on is if you are lacking in water baptism or that of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, that this will result in the loss of one's salvation. This couldn't be further from the truth. No where in scripture does it say that. It says a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven period. What if a man is born again and nobody tells him he needs to be baptized? Will he lose his salvation. Will he go to hell? Not hardly. My God wouldn't do that. I don't know about yours. “
All of which calls into question whether you agree with Peter at Pantecost and with Paul in Romans 8 that we need to obey the demands of God to be saved and that we need the Spirit or we do not belong to Christ,or we can save ourselves and the rest is optional.Nick:
Apparently, You are not reading my posts. I know that a believer should be baptized in water. However, he must first believe with a repentant heart otherwise he would go into the baptismal pool a dry sinner and come up a wet sinner. I also know that obedience does not stop with water baptism. “Not every one who saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter inot the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. (Matt. 7:21)
Let me ask you, when was Cornelius saved? Was he saved when he received the Holy Ghost or not until after he was baptized in water? “
I do not know. I would be speculating. Is it revealed?
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