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Hi Ed J,
I don’t understand what you aren’t getting.
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
a god is made by God through God giving His word to them.
Moses was called by God a god. He through God spoke God’s word and performed miracles of God.
But you want me to believe that even though Jesus identifies himself in John 10 of being one of the gods, God didn’t make him a god, like He did with Moses?
Ed J, I hope you realize that my whole reason for referencing John 10 is to prove that Jesus is not YHVH, that he is not the One True God. People want to say that in other passages Jesus is being called God and they are equating him to be the One True God, or rather is one of two, or one of three, that they believe makes up the One True God. Whether a passage is actually referencing Jesus or not as calling him a god, they cannot equate that he is being represented as being the One True God in that passage because of what John 10 and other passages likewise teach.
Hi All,
Scripture “directly tells us” that YHVH made Jesus a god…
Hi Jodi,
None of those verses tell us “DIRECTLY” that YHVH made Jesus ‘a god’ ???
You’re instead reading into a few selected verses to come up with that idea.So I suggest you change the wording of your claim…
“Scripture “directly tells us” that YHVH made Jesus a god” – Jodi
Ed J, I hope you realize that my whole reason for referencing John 10 is to prove that Jesus is not YHVH, that he is not the One True God. People want to say that in other passages Jesus is being called God and they are equating him to be the One True God, or rather is one of two, or one of three, that they believe makes up the One True God. Whether a passage is actually referencing Jesus or not as calling him a god, they cannot equate that he is being represented as being the One True God in that passage because of what John 10 and other passages likewise teach.
Jodi,
Your misunderstanding of John 10:34-36 does not concern me
Hi Ed J,
Okay I will rephrase,
Scripture directly TEACHES us that as YHVH made Moses a god, He likewise made Jesus a god.
Jesus directly TEACHES us that God calls him a god because the word of God came to him.
Hi Ed J,
Yes please enlighten me that Joseph is not Jesus’s biological father.
Here I have this,
………………………………………….Mary…………………Joseph………………………………………
…………………………………………..50%………………….50%…………………………………………
…………………………………………..Power of the Holy Spirit………………………………………
……………………………………………………/ \………………………………………………….
………………………………………….Jesus 100% human being…………………………………….
…………………..first you have a son of David, then God makes him His Son…………..
…………………..only mortal man anointed with the fullness of God’s Spirit…………….
…………………………………..|…………………………………………….|………………………………..
…………………………….Son of Man…………………..Only begotten Son of God…………….
…………………………………………………….DIES………………………………………………………..
…..resurrected receiving the promised Holy Spirit, David’s son begotten of God…..
…..first begotten of the dead of many brethren a human raised first in an order……
sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh and is God’s Son according to the Spirit
Edj…..Jodi’s right brother. What she has shown there is exactly right. IMO
Peaceand love to you and yours. ……..gene
Jodi……I think that Moses and Jesus stood in God the Fathers place , by speaking his words, but I do not believe it ever made them “a” God.
remember how the Angel spoke to Moses, in the burning bush, you would think that it was GOD, the Father “himself” speaking, and it could have been seening GOD is a Spirit, and can “indwell” , whosoever he will. So God can by his Spirits speak “first” person, through us right? But none of that ever makes any person themselves “a” God.
Here is an example , God the Father spoke through the mouth of Jesus (first person), saying, ” destroy this temple and in three days I (God) shall raise “it” (his body) up.”, That was not Jesus himself speaking there, it was God the Father speaking through Jesus’ mouth first person.
That also applies to all the prophets and anyone God, who is Spirit, speaks through. But again none of that ever made any of them “a” God. I even had that happen to me before, I was questioned once about something I said to a church group, and what came out of my mouth was not even what I was thinking, but it so confounded my accuser the he could not even speak, he just stuttered. That was not me speaking, but GOD the Father speaking through me. None of that ever made me “a” God. So certainly God who is a Spirit can be present “in” people, speaking through them, thats true. That is the way I see it Jodi, I think you also see it that way too.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Hi Gene,
I hope this will clarify how I see it.
Agreed that Moses and Jesus stood in God the Father’s place to carry out God’s will, they were messengers doing His work declaring His word.
We are told that YHVH is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, and that God called them gods, children of the most High.
Let’s forget about the aspect of the Spirit dwelling upon Jesus for a moment.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus is made lord (master) over us by God where God is Jesus’s master and Jesus is thus his servant.
Jesus is made god, a ruler over us by God where God is Jesus’s ruler and Jesus is a loyal subject.
elohiym — first definition that’s given is “rulers, judges”
Jesus being called lord or god I see as a given title denoting a position of authority given to him by God for the purpose of him to do God’s will.
Below the gods are likewise seen as rulers, rulers who oppress their people and God brings them to their death.
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Daniel 2:20 and said: “Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. 21 He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. 22 He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him.
God speaking of Jerusalem:
13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD. 15 “ ‘But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his.
Ezekiel 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “ ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. 17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.
God sets up rulers giving them wisdom, wealth, and power. He however is not directing all their ways, He did not give them the Spirit of Fear (reverence). God gives wisdom but then they are able to corrupt that wisdom, use it according to their own will.
Exodus 31:2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts.
Receiving gifts of God’s Spirit are not all gifts of righteous qualities, He gives gifts of intelligence, talents both physical and mental. God gives gifts and allows people to do what they will with them. Unless they have likewise God’s character upon them of charity, kindness, meekness, etc..they are bound to use those gifts for selfish gain. Unless they have the Spirit of knowledge in God and reverence to Him, and the Spirit of meekness they will be full of their own pride.
I do believe that Jesus was given certain gifts where he could very well use them for his own will, and that he was sent into the wilderness to be tested, where he would overcome because he likewise had the gift of the Spirit of faith and reverence to God.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own desire, and enticed. 15 Then when desire hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Am I to believe that Jesus who hungered after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting was not being drawn away by his own thoughts to make himself bread from stone? Jesus had no desire whatsoever for food, and thus he had no thoughts cross his mind of how he might obtain it?
Am I to believe that in the below passage Jesus is being tempted to do something that he doesn’t actually have the power himself to do?
Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus has overcome his moment of weakness by the word of God and his faith in it. Jesus was tested, he was tried and he endured.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
What was Jesus’s test? Like I said God didn’t put food in front of his face and tell him he couldn’t eat it. Was even the test given here merely about him to not eat food until God said he could? I don’t believe that was it. The test was for him to not use God’s powers to serve himself, and even in great weakness of much hunger he endured the thoughts aroused by his weak flesh. The test was that even though he was in the form of God, seeing himself as equal in certain powers, he likewise found himself in the likeness of man having weak flesh that could be tempted, God cannot be tempted, but he could be. He was humbled in the wilderness, he would not use the Spirit for his own gain for his own glory, he would use it only as a servant, only for God’s will alone.
The fact that Jesus didn’t, makes him an example over so many men who received far less from God but used it for their own gain, when they weren’t even being tested. It’s a reason why I give glory and honor to Jesus unto the glory of our Father, for we see in Jesus the power of His Spirit of humbleness, and reverence at work, we see that God was indeed directing all his ways. God was directing Jesus yes to do great works, perform signs and miracles, and preach God’s word, but God was also showing how the power of His Spirit in a man could destroy the enmity, how it could condemn sin in the flesh.
Hi Ed J,
Jesus directly TEACHES us that God calls him a god because the word of God came to him.
That’s not true Jodi
Hi Ed J,
Okay I will rephrase,
(1)Scripture directly TEACHES us that as YHVH made Moses a god, (2)He likewise made Jesus a god.
(1a)Yes Moses was made ‘a god’ to Pharaoh, (1b)because Pharaoh did not believe YHVH was God.
(2)Everyone that Jesus was preaching to already knew that YHVH was God, so…
(2a)who are you claiming Jesus was made ‘a god’ to?
(2b)And for what purpose?Those are two separate questions which I lined up according to your response,
so please answer both.: (2a)To Whom (2b)and for what purpose.I agree with your point #1, but disagree with your point #2, and I explained why.
Now please try to defend your erroneous summation.
Ed J,
I don’t see an explanation of that passage in John 10 by you, would you care to explain?
Hi Jodi,
This clearly understood verse is enough to disprove your erroneous summation:
“ye are even my witnesses.
Is there ‘a God’ beside me? yea,
there is “no God”; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:8)Shame on you: you want to discount clearly worded verses,
and instead insert your ideas into Scripture? Shame on you!There are more important things for us to discuss.
Things that we can make headway on. You can bicker
the meanings of unclear verses with other members, ok?Hi Ed J,
Yes please enlighten me that Joseph is not Jesus’s biological father.
First, Do you believe the genealogy in Matthew is Joseph’s genealogy?
Hi Jodi,
I’ll contrast your chart after we establish who Jesus father is.
So please answer my question
Jodi…..I think I see the problem here, it’s with the word “God”, my view is there is no little gods and big GODS, please remember there is no lower case littering in the original texts, all was written in upper case lettering, the lower case was added to our text around seven hundred years ago.
So let examine the very word GOD itself , according to Jeff Beaner, the original word, which was a pictorial Hebrew expression.. the expression of God was a head of an “ox” with a shepards “staff”, leaning towards it. This was their way of saying that their GOD WAS THE “POWER” like an “OX” they used for power to plow the earth with, and the “STAFF” was what they leaned on and trusted in for “SUPPORT”.
So we can see that the word “God”, denotes a personal “relationship” with something , it is not, the Something, it is the “relationship” with it. Therefore anything can be a God to anyone, who (trusts in) anything as their source of “POWER”.
That is why GOD SAID “you shall have no other God besides me” , and again, I am the LORD , your GOD, and there is “no” other. And you know all the other verses that say that also. So that is why I say, that where Jesus said you are God’s, he was meaning it in a possive sense, as they were GOD’S people. I also believ GOD SET MOSES as his representing, who “Pharaoh saw” as a representative of Moses’s GOD. I do not believe Moses himself was (a) God, nor do I believe Jesus ever Said he was “a” God either. Jodi remember the word “a” is used as meaning a “paticular” person, place or thing. I see JESUS as (a) “mediator ” between God and men, but not “a” God. And remember Jesus never told those people he was a God, but said he was “the son of God”. They were the one accusing as saying he was “a” God, not him. Remember “everything” is God’s, everything belongs to him, he owns everything in existence.
So in that sense we are GOD’S. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
nor do I believe Jesus ever Said he was “a” God either
And remember Jesus never told those people he was a God, but said he was “the son of God”.Well Gene,
It seems we agree once again 😁
Ed J,
I don’t see an explanation of that passage in John 10 by you, would you care to explain?
Remember “everything” is God’s, everything belongs to him, he owns everything in existence.
So in that sense we are GOD’S. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Hi Gene,
Thanks for explaining that to Jodi for me!
Good Morning Gene,
YOU:
Jodi…..I think I see the problem here, it’s with the word “God”, my view is there is no little gods and big GODS, please remember there is no lower case littering in the original texts, all was written in upper case lettering, the lower case was added to our text around seven hundred years ago.
So let examine the very word GOD itself , according to Jeff Beaner, the original word, which was a pictorial Hebrew expression.. the expression of God was a head of an “ox” with a shepards “staff”, leaning towards it. This was their way of saying that their GOD WAS THE “POWER” like an “OX” they used for power to plow the earth with, and the “STAFF” was what they leaned on and trusted in for “SUPPORT”.
So we can see that the word “God”, denotes a personal “relationship” with something , it is not, the Something, it is the “relationship” with it. Therefore anything can be a God to anyone, who (trusts in) anything as their source of “POWER”.
ME: Yes no capitals as well as no punctuation, and what you explained seemed very close to what I told Ed J. People believe and trust in a god because of the powers they believe that they have. Then I told him there is only One True God, only one who is all powerful and only one who is the source of that power. Such makes YHVH like no other, there is none besides Him.
Zeus and Apollo were fake Gods they were a work of man’s imagination they had no powers.
Can we discuss this verse below,
Psalm 82: 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
These Gods are rulers who are oppressing their people, they have true forms of power and authority over others, they are NOT Gods who are YHVH’s representatives using their authority for good according to YHVH’s command. As they are not the One True God YHVH, for only He is the God of Gods, and the Lord of Lords, He thus can destroy any God or take from them any power or authority that they have.
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever*: for wisdom and might are his: 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
2 Chronicles 1:12 Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Not all that receive from YHVH to whom He calls them Gods, receive because their task is to be YHVH’s representative doing His will. They were able to use what they received to fulfill their own will.
“And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.”
If Jesus was not allowed to be able to use the wisdom or power he received for his own will, the temptation in the above verse would not exist, as he would not have the capability anyway to make such a command on his own accord. But we see that the temptation did indeed exist and he overcame it. Even though he must have been severely hungry, he instead declared that man cannot live on bread alone. As God was directing all His ways, leading him with the fullness of His Spirit, he was able to overcome and serve only God.
Jodi,
Do you really expect people to take you seriously,
when I gave you three posts to respond to, and you instead
respond to a Post (#864025) which I told you does not concern me???Think about your ways!
Seems you would rather have endless bickering of trivial matters,
than to help definitively establish people’s understanding of truth.How odd indeed ???
____________
God bless
Ed J
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