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Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 25 2010,03:47) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,20:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
ED J,Just as Joseph wore the signet ring in place of Pharoah so Jesus wears the crown in place of the Father.
DID YOU GET THAT ED J? JESUS WEARS THE CROWN AS JOSEPH WORE THE SIGNET RING!
It is in the best interests of your soul that you get with the program!
thinker
Hi Thinker,Please display the verse or verses where you get this 'idea' from?
Ed J
JustAskin said:
Quote TT,
the whole tenor of your posts is such that it implies that God has no [final] say in what is happening in his Kingdom. That it is Jesus who is and will be 'running the show – even after 'handing the kingdon back to his father'. How does that work?
JA,Jesus indeeds runs the show. But this does not mean that the Son is above the Father. Paul said that the Son will hand over the kingdom back to His Father in order that “God may be ALL IN ALL.” But until then Christ Himself is “ALL IN ALL.”
11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him. Colossians 3:11, 17
This clearly says that Christ is all in all. It clearly says that everything must be done in Christ's name and that the Father is to be given thanks through Christ.
JA:
Quote ALL THINGS are still contained WITHIN the Father, WITHIN GOD – There is no OUTSIDE of GOD.The atoms, protons, neutrons, nuetrino, particles and everthing in the physical universe is pure ENERGY compressed to form physical elements perfectly balanced and weighted and numbered in value and connective potential to form all the molecular elements that are the building blocks of the universe.
The potential of every element is known to God, the formational limits of all are known to him – he knows exactly how everything will behave in all circumstances and situations and can calculate their performance over ALL times.
Another half truth. Christ is God with and in the Father for in Christ all things consist:And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:17
JA:
Quote There is no OUTSIDE of GOD.
Yes! But the Son is not outside God! You have revealed your anti-christian mind here. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father:“…that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I IN Him” John 10:38
and,
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is IN the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
JA:
Quote But a Jealous helper – the most highly decorated angel, on seing the wondrous creation of a physical being giving Worship to the ONE God from came all things, remembering all the 'glorious work' that he did bred in himself a sinful state, desiring that Worship should also be given to him for the Glorious work that he did. But lo, God said NO!, worship is for me alone and you ahve sinned with your lust for the High Place. So Satan, the Devil, as he became known, went off to make war with humnaity – God's wonderful sentient creation into whom HE (God) blew his Spirit force and made a perfect physical being, autonomous in it's environment, a god in the physical, who can also Create, destroy, to build, to do or not do with Free will, to Worship Him, God. 
The scripture teaches no such thing!JA:
Quote That one will have completed the work his father – yes his father – for God Begot that ONE as his Son, the perfect heavenly Prince to His God's Kingship, himself the heavenly King over all kings of mankind, mankind being kings over all the [other] created beings on earth.
You are grosslly confused! In Hebrew culture the chief Son had EQUALITY with His Father. This is why the apostle John said that Christ was “making Himself equal with God” when He claimed that God was His own Father (John 5:19).Scripture explicitly states over and over again that the Son is the heir of the kingdom. This means that the kingdom is Christ's by right. Christ rules the kingdom however He wills to rule it as I have shown numerous times. He may reveal the Father to whomsoever “He wills” (Matthew 11:27).
To you this implies that the Father has no “final word.” But the Father has already given His final word. He has committed all judgment to the Son. This means that the Son would have the final word on judgment day.
In other words, the Father's “final word” is this: My Son has the final word!
thinker
Hi TT,
Context,
Christ and His God are only in those reborn from above.
The lordship of all men refers to his appointment as the King of earth on the throne of David.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,05:39) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
Bad analogy!Joseph didn't sit in the throne of Pharoah.
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God!
WJ
Or does it say “At the right hand of God”?Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,00:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,05:39) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
Bad analogy!Joseph didn't sit in the throne of Pharoah.
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God!
WJ
Or does it say “At the right hand of God”?Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIt says both!
Shall I post the scriptures where Jesus is standing in the throne of God?
Blessings WJ
Thinker………”where it says that “Christos” is all and in all”. Lets look at it with word meaning, ” THAT THE (ANOINTING) IE, (CHRISTOS) MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL. THE WORD CHRISTOS MEANS ANOINTING, Jesus had the anointing of GOD in Him and so do the Saints, this is the common denominator in both Jesus and the Saints. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, BUY HIS HOLY SPIRIT (the anointing) or CHRISTOS, Get it? The seven (SPIRITS) (OF) OR (FROM) GOD ARE (IN) CHRIST JESUS the MAN, BUT that, DOES NOT MAKE HIM THOSE SPIRITS THAT ARE (IN) HIM, NO MORE THEN THE SAME SPIRIT IN THOSE WHO HAVE IT IN THEM ARE A GOD EITHER. Your making what Jesus has in him as if it (IS) him. Big Trinitarian Mistake. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 25 2010,11:30) Thinker………”where it says that “Christos” is all and in all”. Lets look at it with word meaning, ” THAT THE (ANOINTING) IE, (CHRISTOS) MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL. THE WORD CHRISTOS MEANS ANOINTING, Jesus had the anointing of GOD in Him and so do the Saints, this is the common denominator in both Jesus and the Saints. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, BUY HIS HOLY SPIRIT (the anointing) or CHRISTOS, Get it? The seven (SPIRITS) (OF) OR (FROM) GOD ARE (IN) CHRIST JESUS the MAN, BUT that, DOES NOT MAKE HIM THOSE SPIRITS THAT ARE (IN) HIM, NO MORE THEN THE SAME SPIRIT IN THOSE WHO HAVE IT IN THEM ARE A GOD EITHER. Your making what Jesus has in him as if it (IS) him. Big Trinitarian Mistake. IMO
GeneThe word “Christ” means no such thing. As Jack says that is a half truth.
Th word “Christ” means the “annointed one”, the Messiah!
Every place in the scripture the word “Christ” is used it refers to Jesus, and it never refers to the Holy Spirit!
Blessings WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 26 2010,06:30) TT, Show me your diagram of “The Kingdom of God” — “The Kingdom of Jesus Christ” as you would say?
JA,I am not into diagrams.
thinker
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2010,03:30) Thinker………”where it says that “Christos” is all and in all”. Lets look at it with word meaning, ” THAT THE (ANOINTING) IE, (CHRISTOS) MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL. THE WORD CHRISTOS MEANS ANOINTING, Jesus had the anointing of GOD in Him and so do the Saints, this is the common denominator in both Jesus and the Saints. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, BUY HIS HOLY SPIRIT (the anointing) or CHRISTOS, Get it? The seven (SPIRITS) (OF) OR (FROM) GOD ARE (IN) CHRIST JESUS the MAN, BUT that, DOES NOT MAKE HIM THOSE SPIRITS THAT ARE (IN) HIM, NO MORE THEN THE SAME SPIRIT IN THOSE WHO HAVE IT IN THEM ARE A GOD EITHER. Your making what Jesus has in him as if it (IS) him. Big Trinitarian Mistake. IMO
Gene,WJ and I have posted the scripture several times. After you painted over it with your white out you probably forgot about it. Paul said that Christ is “all in all.”
“where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.” Colossians 3:11
The word “Christ” refers to Jesus Christ and no one else. Verse 13 says that “Christ” forgave us. This can mean no one else but Jesus Christ.
Paul said that Christ will deliver the kingdom to the Father in order that “God” may be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28). Until then Christ is “all in all.”
Your views are thrice Anathema!
thinker
Hi TT,
You quote from Paul's letter to the saved and so context tells us the Spirit of Christ is only in all the reborn.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2010,03:25) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,00:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,05:39) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
Bad analogy!Joseph didn't sit in the throne of Pharoah.
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God!
WJ
Or does it say “At the right hand of God”?Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIt says both!
Shall I post the scriptures where Jesus is standing in the throne of God?
Blessings WJ
Or how about this one:Quote Revelation 5:13 (King James Version) 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2010,03:25) Shall I post the scriptures where Jesus is standing in the throne of God? Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,It says “in the midst” of God's throne. It also says the four beasts are “in the midst” of the throne. 7:10 says:
Quote And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb Can you see it is God who sits on the throne, and the Lamb is someone different?
peace and love
mikethinker……> it is simple you just do not believe what Jesus said about GOD the FATHER being the “ONLY TRUE GOD” . It really is that simple if you just believed ONLY that one statement of Jesus you would have no trouble understanding the rest.
You need to reread 2Ths2 and really think about it time is running short brother. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2010,03:30) Thinker………”where it says that “Christos” is all and in all”. Lets look at it with word meaning, ” THAT THE (ANOINTING) IE, (CHRISTOS) MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL. THE WORD CHRISTOS MEANS ANOINTING, Jesus had the anointing of GOD in Him and so do the Saints, this is the common denominator in both Jesus and the Saints. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, BUY HIS HOLY SPIRIT (the anointing) or CHRISTOS, Get it? The seven (SPIRITS) (OF) OR (FROM) GOD ARE (IN) CHRIST JESUS the MAN, BUT that, DOES NOT MAKE HIM THOSE SPIRITS THAT ARE (IN) HIM, NO MORE THEN THE SAME SPIRIT IN THOSE WHO HAVE IT IN THEM ARE A GOD EITHER. Your making what Jesus has in him as if it (IS) him. Big Trinitarian Mistake. IMO
GeneAnointed simply means chosen. Jesus, the son “of” God, was chosen “by” God, to be the Messiah, savior, of “all” mankind. He became the messiah when he was baptized, and “anointed” with the Holy Spirit because that is when his ministry began.
God does not have “seven” spirits; seven is God's number of perfection, it only emphasizes the fact that God's Holy Spirit is perfect.
The apostles, as well as all the saints, were predestined to be called, but the anointing by the Holy Spirit came only “after” they answered the call.Georg
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2010,11:33) thinker……> it is simple you just do not believe what Jesus said about GOD the FATHER being the “ONLY TRUE GOD” . It really is that simple if you just believed ONLY that one statement of Jesus you would have no trouble understanding the rest. You need to reread 2Ths2 and really think about it time is running short brother. IMO
Gene,It is simple that you give the words of Jesus more authority than the words of the Father. Jesus called the Father “God” and rhe Father called the Son “God” (Hebrews 1:8).
Both the Father and the Son spoke truth with EQUAL authority.
Why do you believe the Son but you don't believe the Father?
thinker
Thinker……….The reason the Father and the Son Spoke the Same truth is because the SAME SPIRIT (INTELLECT) IS IN THEM BOTH AT THIS TIME , Jesus recieved that SPIRIT at the JORDAN, after His Berth into existence on earth.
That Spirit is equal in power and authority, Not the Individuals (it) (Holy spirit) is (IN)> Thy are those who have recieved the SPIRIT OF (THE ONLY ONE TRUE) GOD (IN) Them. You and Wj are constantly trying to Make God's Spirit the person it is IN. If you could just understand this so many scriptures would just fall into place and the confusion would leave you. IMO
Do yourself a favor and dump the TRINITARIAN GARBAGE, And along with it the PREEXISTENCE GARBAGE TO.
peace and love to you and your………………………gene
Georg………..Messiah means (THE ANOINTED) and CHRISTOS OR CHRIST MEANS (THE ANOINTED). That anointing was the (HOLY SPIRIT) OF ONLY ONE TRUE GOD> Chosen is what takes Place before the Spirit is administered to the Person. Jesus was chosen from the foundations of the earth, he was in the PLAN and WILL of GOD from the very start of the CREATION. Jesus is the Purpose of GOD for all of Man KIND, He is the first from mankind and the Last will be just the same as He, therefor it says ,He is both the first and the last, in that sense. Georg Jesus did not preexist his berth on earth other then in the plan and purpose of GOD the FATHER. Once you get rid of the false teaching of the preexistence of Jesus, many scriptures will clear up for you. IMO
peace and lov eto you and Irene………………gene
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,17:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2010,03:25) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,00:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,05:39) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
Bad analogy!Joseph didn't sit in the throne of Pharoah.
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God!
WJ
Or does it say “At the right hand of God”?Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIt says both!
Shall I post the scriptures where Jesus is standing in the throne of God?
Blessings WJ
Or how about this one:Quote Revelation 5:13 (King James Version) 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYou should read the verse in its context.
And I beheld, and, lo, “in the midst of the throne” and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, “stood a Lamb” as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6
Here is another one…
“For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them“, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:17
Here is another one…
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of “the throne of God **and of the Lamb**“. Rev 22:1
Here is another one…
And there shall be no more curse: but “the throne of God and of the Lamb” shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev 22:3
Marty this is a sincere question.
Why do you guys always look for ways to make Jesus less than what he is or seek to give him less honour than the Father?
Why is it that Trinitarians seek to magnify Jesus while anti-Trinitarians look for ways to minimize him?
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God.
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever“: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
At this time he is not subject to the Father for all Authority and Power, including all things is in his (Jesus) hands and by him (Jesus) all things consist.
Why do you think the Angels of God worship him?
Blessings WJ
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