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Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 20 2010,03:02) Quote (princess of the king @ Feb. 19 2010,22:30) Quote But until then Christ is the “ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” is he the lord of host, tt?
Yes Jesus is the Lord of “hosts” (angels). The “hosts” (angels) are commanded to WORSHIP Him.5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?And again:
“ I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“ Let all the angels [hosts] of God WORSHIP Him.” Hebrews 1:6
thinker
something is not right thinker.if this be the case as you say, why do you need to mention Father?
can't you just say jesus is god and there is no other, no Father Son Spirit.
This “chip on your shoulders” argueing is not very becoming on a christian discussion board. Seems alot of christians for centurys have done it though, it's nothing new, but it's still sad. While this is going on the money grubbing media is poisioning mminds left and right. 'twilight', about a vampire that my niece tells me is a good vampire because he only drinks animal blood??? , Harry Potter , hugely poplar, about sorcery glorified:p , and “American Idol” is slaughtering ratings even though the title is a dead give away, no need for a phrophet, just read the title:angry: . “They will know you are christians, by your love for one another” Godbless
Hi MA,
We are trying to reveal the doorway into the kingdom that most have yet to enter.
But instead religious zealots who do not know the way are throwing stones and offering confusion.
They offer their thoughts about the nature of God without bothering to listen to those God sent with His gospel.
They want arguments about religion, which is meant to be the expression of our salvation, before seeking first the kingdomQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 20 2010,05:45) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 20 2010,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,21:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
thinkerDo you need my reply in braille?
Georg
Georg,I sarcasm all you have left?
thinker
thinkerI gave you scriptures, you ignore them, so what is left?
Georg
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,21:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
OK thinkerJust for the fun of it, I try again.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;Now, pay attention what the next verse says.
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
As concerning the flesh, that means all of humanity, Christ came for our sake, he, Christ, is over all of us, and Paul blesses “God” for it, in other words, he is thanking God for it.
Btw, I used to be a pretty good dancer.
One more thing, don't be so hard on yourself, and stop hitting yourself, in impairs your thinking.Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,06:57) TT THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A DEFERENCE.BETWEEN GOD AND CHRIST THEY COULD NEVER BE EQUAL.
t,They are indeed equal. Paul said that the Son “will be” subject to the Father. So Christ must have been equal with the Father when Paul said that. Otherwise, the future “will be subject” makes no sense.
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,06:55) tt YOU SAY;He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
IF HE WAS EQUAL TO GOD HE WOULD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS HAS GOD;LIKE NO MAN CAN SEE HIM AND LIVE,CAN NOT DIE,NO MAN CAN SEE HIM BECAUSE HE IS SPIRIT,AND AFTER ALL WHY SHOULD IT BE HIM AND NOT THEY OTHER ONE WHO GOES TO DO THE JOB ??
No man can see Jesus unless He reveals Himself. He revealed Himself to Paul on the road to Damascus. But He remained invisible to those who were with Paul.The flesh He took was only temporary so He could be the sacrifice for our sins. He is a glorified spirit now.
thinker
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 22 2010,15:37) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,21:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
OK thinkerJust for the fun of it, I try again.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;Now, pay attention what the next verse says.
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
As concerning the flesh, that means all of humanity, Christ came for our sake, he, Christ, is over all of us, and Paul blesses “God” for it, in other words, he is thanking God for it.
Btw, I used to be a pretty good dancer.
One more thing, don't be so hard on yourself, and stop hitting yourself, in impairs your thinking.Georg
Georg,Paul did not say that he blesses God that Jesus Christ is over all. He said, “…Jesus Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever.”
Are you saying that Jesus Christ over all humanity only and not the rest of God's creation?
Paul clearly taught that Jesus Christ is superior to the angels (Heb. 1) and that He has been exalted “FAR ABOVE” all powers whether on earth or in the “heavenly places” (Eph. 1).
The Father is over all
Jesus Christ is over all
Ergo….
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:11) Hi TT,
ERGO means therefore?
So you want us to say Jesus is his own father??
Hey Nick,I was not clear on that one. I meant to say that they are equal in authority.
You got me on that one.
thinker
hi TT,
So two are have authority, one being given it by the other.
Of course it is the one who gives that is greter than the recipient[Heb7]
Why would you be interested in trying to prove you have two equal gods anyway if you are a trinitarian?Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:11) Hi TT,
ERGO means therefore?
So you want us to say Jesus is his own father??
Hey Nick,I was not clear on that one. I meant to say that they are equal in authority.
You got me on that one.
thinker
thinker1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
Did not the Father put all thinks under his, the sons, feet? and is it not true that the one who put all things under his feet, is excepted from being put under his feet?
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Does it not say that when all things are subdued, conquered, the son will be subject to the Father again as well? where do you see equality in this?
Georg
Quote * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
When someone becomes the president of the U.S., they become commander and chief “over all” American citizens. The president then often appoints certain ones to help out. Ultimately, the president is commander and chief “over all” the military. But he appoints and gives authority to the head of the department of defense, who can equally be said to be “over all” military.
The president is “over all” military.
The Head of Defense is “over all” military.
Therefore, in your logic, the two are equal in AUTHORITY.Nevermind the fact that one GAVE the other their authority over all.
““All authority has been GIVEN ME in heaven and on the earth.”-Jesus, Mat 28:18
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,20:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
EdGreat comparison.
Georg
Ring a ring a roses
The questions that Thinker poses
Aren't issuea, aren't issues
He always falls downIt is evident that He (God) who put all things beneath his (Jesus') feet is exem[t from that 'ALL'.
Why strain at the gnat, David and TT?
What is it that you seek to gain from wrongful thinking? All you are doing is causing pointless debate on this issue.
TT, how many times have you debated – and – lost on this and yet you keep coming back – round and round and round – never moving forward.
This is the problem with the Trinity – realisation that it is false causes believers to stay in the little loop of forcibly dismissing commonsense and reality in order to maintain their false doctrine and hoping to trap and enmesh unwary truth seekers to their cause.
It is evident that the President is still OVER the person whom he imparts his military authority.
EDJ, Good comeback.
(But conclusion should be: Therefore Joseph is Pharoah)Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,08:46) hi TT,
So two are have authority, one being given it by the other.
Of course it is the one who gives that is greter than the recipient[Heb7]
Why would you be interested in trying to prove you have two equal gods anyway if you are a trinitarian?
Anti-trinitarians have two Saviors, two Shepherds and two Testators. Trinitarians have just one of all the above in three persons.thinker
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,20:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
ED J,Sorry to disappoint you but Joseph was appointed by Pharoah as the “food commissioner.” Joseph was over all the food supply in Egypt. Read the Genesis 41:37-47.
Joseph had EQUAL authority with Pharoah over the food supply:
42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring off his hand and put it on Joseph’s hand; and he clothed him in garments of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck. 43 And he had him ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried out before him, “Bow the knee!” So he set him over all the land of Egypt. 44 Pharaoh also said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” 45 And Pharaoh called Joseph’s name Zaphnath-Paaneah. And he gave him as a wife Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On. So Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.
46 Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.The narrative says that Pharoah put the signet ring on Joseph's hand. Then it verse 46 it says that Joseph “stood before” Pharoah. This was a Hebrew idiom which indicated that Joseph had equal authority with Pharoah in the management of the food supplies in Egypt.
My logic still stands because Christ is over all in every area and not just the food supply. He has EQAUL authority with His Father just As Joseph had equal authority with Pharoah.
Just as Joseph wore the signet ring in place of Pharoah so Jesus wears the crown in place of the Father.
DID YOU GET THAT ED J? JESUS WEARS THE CROWN AS JOSEPH WORE THE SIGNET RING!
It is in the best interests of your soul that you get with the program!
thinker
TT,
“44 Pharaoh also said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” … – or else he will have me to deal with!!
What does this mean?
paraphrase:
“God also said to Jesus, 'I am God, and without your consent no man may gain the kingdom of heaven'” – or else he will have me to deal with
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