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Hi MS,
So why reference them as useful if they are dangerously heretical?
Or perhaps I misunderstood.To demonstrate that they rejected “orhodoxy” of Jesus being the LORD YHWH.
Their persian and grecian philosophies declared the material world evil so they couldn't believe the creator was good.
They believed YHWH was evil.
So they believed Jesus was a “NEW” son of El sent to save us from all the bad sons of El.
My intent was to demonstrate that they understood what the church taught, but could not except it.
Hi MS,
Rather they had esoteric understandings from outside of the Word of God that they believed in and thus showed their lack of knowledge of the ways of God and the respect due to the Word of God. Their foundation was false and their leaving was the natural result of that rebellion.2Jn
” 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,09:08) Hi MS,
Rather they had esoteric understandings from outside of the Word of God that they believed in and thus showed their lack of knowledge of the ways of God and the respect due to the Word of God. Their foundation was false and their leaving was the natural result of that rebellion.2Jn
” 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
I agree with what you wrote.If you don't understand why I used them in a purely historical reference then I would prefer to drop it.
I do not teach nor agree with the gnostics doctrine and do not want to be forced to defend myself against that accusation.
Hi MS,
Jesus did not teach he was the God of the Jews.
To teach that is to go beyond the teachings of Christ in the same way.Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 04 2007,09:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,09:08) Hi MS,
Rather they had esoteric understandings from outside of the Word of God that they believed in and thus showed their lack of knowledge of the ways of God and the respect due to the Word of God. Their foundation was false and their leaving was the natural result of that rebellion.2Jn
” 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
I agree with what you wrote.If you don't understand why I used them in a purely historical reference then I would prefer to drop it.
I do not teach nor agree with the gnostics doctrine and do not want to be forced to defend myself against that accusation.
well thats the book of the Gos-pils of John, mouse flavored cat foodA heven hence forth, is of this planet?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,09:14) Hi MS,
Jesus did not teach he was the God of the Jews.
To teach that is to go beyond the teachings of Christ in the same way.
The gos-pills taught you what they wanted to?Charity,
Maybe I am just tired, but I can't for the life of me understand what you are saying.
Maybe, if you clarified I could answer your question.
Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 04 2007,13:51) Charity, Maybe I am just tired, but I can't for the life of me understand what you are saying.
Maybe, if you clarified I could answer your question.
I'm tired too, peace and Harmony, 6 cups of forgivnesssorry MS
Quote (charity @ Dec. 04 2007,14:20) Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 04 2007,13:51) Charity, Maybe I am just tired, but I can't for the life of me understand what you are saying.
Maybe, if you clarified I could answer your question.
I'm tired too, peace and Harmony, 6 cups of forgivenesssorry MS
Charity 6 cups of forgiveness. I like that. : 
Love Irene
Hi,
If gnosticism is based on what people think they KNOW and that so called spiritual KNOWLEDGE does not need to be bound by scriptural proofs, though usually the proponents claim to find dim echoes of their KNOWLEDGE in scripture, then many heresies, such as trinity theory, are of that nature too.Man cannot live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Gnostic View of God
The Gnostic view of God is pantheistic, that is God dwells in all things and via emanation, all things are of God. To quote, “in philosophy emanation [Latin, flowing from], cosmological concept that explains the creation of the world by a series of radiations, or emanations, originating in the godhead. It is characteristic of Neoplatonism and of Gnosticism (and Hinduism). An element of pantheism exists within Christianity as the Holy Spirit. Emanation is opposed to the Jewish concept of a transcendent God. Gnostics of all kinds deny the idea that God directly created the material world, which they see as corrupt or fallen.
This is the one area where offcial Christianity clearly differs from Gnosticism, or tries to. To quote,
Plato refers to the Demiurge frequently in the Timaeus as the entity who “fashioned and shaped” the material world. Plato describes the Demiurge as unreservedly good and hence desirous of a world as good as possible. The world remains allegedly imperfect because the Demiurge had to work on pre-existing chaotic matter. Christianity and Judaism claim “God” the Creator is good, but Christians claim the soul is corrupt due to the sin of Adam. Gnostisim is another matter. In Gnosticism the Demiurge (Creator) is by no means all-good, but a bungling and incompetent fool that creates the world as a spiritual prison. Gnosticism also presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable “alien God” and the “creator” of the material — the Demiurge. However, in contrast to Plato, many systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Creator: this sort of Demiurge focusses solely on material reality…Pagan philosophers in the lineage of Plato also rebuke the Gnostics…the neoplatonists would have rejected the gnostic vilification of Platos's demiurge.
Neoplatonism was a big influence on the official Church. But are the official Gnostics the only ones that deny God made the material world? The Old Testament clearly said God made the material world and well as gave Moses the Law. The official announcment doesn't match what the Bible has to say. According to Paul,
Gal 3:19-20, Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one…
Here is a direct denial of God for some intermidiate and lower being. But Paul is not alone in his beliefs that the Jewish God was the not real God. The Book of John is very Gnostic in theme, regardless of later Church efforts at editing and censorship. The Gnostics too believed Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit. The Gnostic Holy Spirit was female, or the feminine side of God. From them emanated the Son. In The Apocryphon of John we find the Trinity actually stated. At the end of the official John, Jesus promises to return in his lifetime to John:John 21:22-23, Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?…
Where official John has an uncertain ending and what seems a broken promise, was fulfilled in the Gnostic Gospels. Here we find John grieving at the apparent death of Jesus. Jesus appears to him, “John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? – that is, do not be timid! – I am the one who is with you always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one…” Gnostics wanted to escape the material world and rejoin with God (under emanation all things are of God), thus they would be like Jesus, a Son of God:Official John 1:2, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name…” and Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic3.htm
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GNOSTICISM: ANCIENT AND MODERN
ANCIENT GNOSTIC LEADERS; PAULINE CHRISTIAN INTERACTIONAncient Gnostic leaders:
Simon Magus: He was one of the earliest Gnostics He was skilled in the arts of magic. He interpreted the Garden of Eden, exodus from Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea as allegories.Marcion: (85-160 CE) He organized a series of Gnostic congregations in the eastern Mediterranean which survived into the 3rd century CE. He wrote a book called Antitheses which earned him excommunication by the Christian leaders of Rome. He rejected the institution of marriage. He believed that the Demiurge arranged Jesus' persecution and crucifixion. But the death of Christ on the cross was only a hallucination, since Jesus did not have a physical body.
Valentinus: He was born in Egypt, traveled to Rome about 140 CE and then moved to Cyprus. He was the founder of perhaps the largest and most influential school of Gnosticism which lasted until it was suppressed in the 4th century CE. He taught that groups of Aeons made up the “pleroma (fullness) of the High God. One group, the Ogoad are called: Depth, Silence, Mind, Truth, Word, Life, Man and Church. Another group was the Decad (10) and Dodecad (12). The last of the Docecad was Wisdom, also called Sophia.
Carpocrates: (circa 140 CE); He taught reincarnation. An individual had to live many lives and adsorb a full range of experiences before being able to return to God. They practiced free sexuality. They believed that Jesus was the son of Joseph.
Interactions between Gnostic Christianity and Pauline Christianity:
Some Gnostic beliefs and leaders may have infiltrated Pauline Christianity and influenced the authors of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament)
Some theologians believe that the Carpocratian Gnostics were the target of Jude's attack about “…certain men” who ” have secretly slipped in among you,”. The book of Jude, Verses 4 to 19, deals mainly with these infiltrators.
Simon Magus, an early Gnostic, may have been the Simon mentioned in Acts 8:9-24. Simon believed in Jesus and was baptized with a group of other believers. But none had received the Holy Spirit until Peter and John placed their hands on the new converts. Simon asked for the laying on of the apostles' hands and even offered money. Peter refused, because Simon's heart was not right with God.
Matthew 4:8-9 describes how Satan took Jesus to a very high mountain and offered him all of the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would only bow down and worship him. This passage has always been difficult to understand, because it implies that the world belonged to the Devil and that he was able to give it away to Christ. But the passage matches Gnostic belief very closely.
***********************Gnosticism is believed to be from Simon or at least an early teacher of Gnosticism.
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.Hi SOL,
Since gnostics are driven by other spirits
you really should abhor them and seek to be reborn from above.It seems that whatever you want to believe their are “Scholars” who have written on the subject to encourage one to pursue their ideas.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.The bible seems to be at the heart of ALL controversy. Why? If the bible were not here where would the controversy be?
Satan appeals to the intellect, human logic. How can these things be asked Nicodemus?
How can you be “born again”?
Human logic, reasoning: Can a man enter again into the womb?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?
Nicodemus was a “religious” leader a man of human logic.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, [the SPIRIT] and people loved the darkness [flesh self centered human reasoning] rather than the light because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.The seeds of the Spirit are sown in ALL the hearts of men. Some hearts are cold and hard and so reject the Spirit. They listen to their Human reasoning and respond through the flesh. Others have a heart that seems good they do good for they fellow humans and so the Spirit takes root but when the Spirit begins to sprout and begins to teach against their human reasoning they soon reject the Spirit as foolishness.
Then they are those who as it seems to the world a fool's fool! They give birth to the Spirit and are born again, for these they SEE things differently~all things are new~ No more is ok just to look at a woman with lust as it was before. No more is their a “white lie” and drunkenness. Love and peace take on a completely different meaning!!!
The Joy of the Spirit surely is supernatural! There is NO drug that can compare to the Joy of the Spirit, NONE!
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Personally I never seen so many fiery darts being fired from all directions. Satan truly knows he has but a short time.
Hold fast, check your armour, And by ALL means take EVERY thought Captive to the Obedience of Christ.
Thank you Ken you are so right. Satan is so busy. Hold on to Jesus. Let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truths. Without being born again you just can't understand. But if that seed falls on bad ground it will not grow. That is what you have so much today, they start out good, but then the wind blows them away. Put on the whole Armor of God. Study the word and Meditate on God and pray, pray, pray. Concentrate on God as much as you can. Let the mind that was in Christ be in you.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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