- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Scripture warns that there would be false doctrines about demons, that men would deceive with fake spirits, and that people would believe in fables.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
The word “devils” is daimonion– this word is used interchangeably in scripture with unclean spirits, it is also used interchangeably with being dumb/or mute, blind, etc.. We see from 1 Timothy 4 that there most assuredly EXISTS LIES about seducing spirits and devils/demons/unclean spirits and that they were FABLES.
1 Corinthians 10: 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
Revelation 9: 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
The word “demons” in both of these passages is also daimonion and once again the passages are speaking of FABLES, of the worship and fear of false gods and their demons.
2 Timothy 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
There were/are various beliefs when it comes to demons and God warned not to mingle with heathens and change the truth into lies.
What are these lies? What are the false doctrines when it comes to unclean spirits? What are these fables?
Hi Jodi,
Yes demons often occupy the vessel of man.
That is why Jesus spent so much of his time driving them out and cleansing those vessels to be able to house the Holy Spirit and to become useful vessels for God, as man was designed to be.
Men are often deceived into allowing these agents of disease, mental illness and deception to use them as tools in spreading their doctrines. Without the light of the Spirit man is easy prey.
The light has begun to drive out the darkness but the process is slow, and natural men usually prefer the darkness
Hi Jodi,
So entrenched in deception and the doctrines of demons were the Pharisees that the Spirit in Jesus called them a brood of vipers, sons of the devil and whited sepulchres full of dead men’s bones. These men of religion were doing exactly the opposite of the will of God and served Satan and the kingdom of darkness.
They missed their opportunity to find the will of God, and like the scribes, refused the baptism of repentance of John- as shown in Lk 7.30.Unsurprisingly they then carried out the will of these evil authorities on high and murdered the Christ of God.
Hi Jodi,
As Jesus Christ said
”Make sure the light in you is not darkness, for O how deep that darkness can be”
Truth and deception can look so similar.
Jodi and Nick…..again well put, both of you, good witnesses to the truth of God, and our lord, better, brother Jesus the Christ.
Peace and love to both of you and yours. ……gene
Hi Jodi,
The doctrines of devils ITim refers to are stated in the passage as forbidding to marry and abstaining from certain foods. Various sects throughout Christian history have advocated such rules even partly based on teachings of Jesus and Paul themselves concerning marriage. It’s claimed here that these are doctrines of, from or by devils not about devils. And how can one partake of the table of demons if demons don’t exist? If Paul wanted his readers to not believe in demons he should’ve plainly said don’t believe in demons or people who say they exist, but quite to the contrary he mentions Satan and devils in nearly all his writings as if they do exist. He even thought his thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan sent to harass him or keep him from being too conceited.
It’s true that idols cannot see or hear or speak but apparently demons can according the gospels such as Mark 1:23-25 23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.Here the demon sees, speaks and hears.
Now do you consider stories such as this to be fables? or the sons of God breeding with woman, similar to the Titans of Greek lore, or the battling angels of Daniel and the list could go on and on. I understand if you don’t want to believe in them because if God is really sovereign over everything and everyone then what is the point of these? I’ve met people who say they believe in God but not the devil,and also those who came to believe in God and Christ through perceived experience with ghosts or demons and they sincerely believe in their experience and subsequent faith.
And what do with this verse in James? Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Just what are these devils that believe in God? It’s one thing to say you don’t believe in the devil/devils but trying to claim the bible, in particular the NT doesn’t teach their existence is simply unrealistic.
Hi Andrew,
Yes the fact that men are used to teach doctrines of demons and lead away believers,
shows how clever these unclean spirits are, and how gullible are men
who do not know the word, or the Spirit that wrote it
and spoke it through anointed vessels.
Hi,
So the demons have been offering men an alternative faith.
They are already condemned and know that the time left to use us to oppose God is short.
They offer another Jesus, false Christs, false prophets and false teachers inspired by themselves.
There is a false table of sharing , false fellowship and a spirit of deception – another spirit.
They are doing their evil master and his angelic servants proud.
Maranatha, come Lord Jesus.
To all… Matt 7:15-23, please read it all, i just quoted part here, Jesus said, “there is “Nothing” from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. Why, because it comes from the heart”. Now if your heart is evil, thats what comes out of you. If you “being” evil, know how to give good gifts, how much more will your heavenly father give to them who ask of his spirit. And again, every tree is known by “it’s” fruit, seek the evil and evil will come into you, or seek whats good and good shall come into you. Every tree (that which produces from self) is known by what (IT) produces. Learn how to “distinguish” good from evil, life from death, choose good and life. Because your own mind will be affected by your own choices. When we are tempted it is from our own selves we are tempted, ACCORDING TO JAMES. Resist the d-evil, and it will flee from you, seek the good and it will come unto you.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ……gene
- Hi gene. Don’t be under any illusion: you cannot make a fool of God! A man’s harvest in life will depend entirely on whathe sows. If he sows for his own lower nature his harvest will be the decay and death of his own nature. But if he sows for the Spirit he will reap the harvest of everlasting life by that Spirit. Let us not grow tired of doing good, for, unless we throw in our hand, the ultimate harvest is assured. Let us then do good to all men as opportunity offers, especially to those who belong to the Christian household. God bless isn’t God (Yahweh) good and the only begotten Son (Yahshua) I like those names !! I believe that’s what the apostle said yahshua .
Anthony….good post brother i believe that to, it’s about what we are doing and God the Father is doing in and with our lives, that really counts.
Rememver this scripture, “what does God require of you, O man?, do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your GOD.” Thats it everything else has been added.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Yes Jesus declared foods clean. Demons do not enter man through eating food such as pork.
It is lusts that give birth to sin in the flesh by our own decisions. Jas1.14f
When they occupy our heart only God can set us free again.
Out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
The tongue is as the tiny rudder of the ship
Freedom is found in Jesus Christ
When the son sets you free you will be free indeed.
Nick….The food laws were only examples to, show us God wants us to learn that we need to learn to seperate the good from the evil. He used the carnal food laws, to cause our forefathers to learn to chose what they are bring into their own lives, life is about learning to seperate the evil from the good. I believe good and evil is what life consists of and probably always will, so choosing good brings about clean things in our lives and choosing evil brings about unclean things in our lives. It all about how we want to live our own lives, we are greatly effected by what we choose to being into our lives. People who try to blame it on an unseen force are simply trying to put the blame of their own actions of on others so they can escape having any blame for what they themselves are doing. Flee d-evil and it will fee from you IMO.
Man sins when he or she is lead away by their “own lusts” not someone else causing it, remember unto thy own self be true.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
Scripture teaches that either you are led by the Spirit or you are still under the power of the evil one.
As the Spirit taught through Peter, quoting scripture, in 1 Peter 1.14
“All flesh is like grass, and all it’s glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers, and the flower falls off,
but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
Man is pathetic, weak and ignorant.
1jn 5.19
”We know that we are of God and the whole world lies under the power of the evil one”
Col 1.13
”For He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins”
Two kingdoms. Two choices.
The rest is vanity.
Nick and Anthony your understanding of 1 timothy 4 and 1 Corinthians 10, if I have it correctly, is that the doctrines of devils/demons/unclean spirits, are doctrines that came to man by the influence of crafty devils/demons/unclean spirits. I would like you to read these passages again carefully and consider what I say about them.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;…7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
Is this scripture not saying that men would depart from the faith by believing in the fables and lies about demons that were invented by humans?
I understand the scripture to say that when it came to unclean spirits people created lies and fables about what they are and what they do, and those beliefs caused them to depart from the faith.
What I see that the scriptures are teaching us is that there are real unclean spirits no doubt, but that there also exists unclean spirits that were nothing but pure fables.
There are real unclean spirits that cause people to be blind, mute, insane etc.., but there were also fables about unclean spirits that we are told have no power.
The below scripture mentions demons that were the WORKS of man’s own hands, thus really referring to them as fables, and it says along with the idols they could not hear nor walk, which is obvious if they were indeed made by the works of man’s own hands.
Revelation 9: 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
In the below scripture the Gentiles and their demons are mentioned. We are told in the OT that there would be false beliefs from the heathens and God warned Israel not to mingle with heathens and acquire their beliefs. We are also told, just like the verses above that the heathen’s unclean spirits, idols, and gods, were not real, they had NO powers.
God did not want His people to be led astray and believe in the FAKE stuff the Gentiles did. The demons in the below scripture are fake. This is a warning not to believe in lies. This is NOT a warning not to allow yourself to be seduced by real demons, and then perform deeds according to their influences.
1 Corinthians 10: 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
Nick and Anthony please think on the above. I hope that you can recognize with these specific scriptures we are in fact being warned not to believe in FAKE unclean spirits, and these passages are not to be confused at all with the passages that speak of REAL unclean spirits.
Hi Jodi,
The human vessel is very weak and is used by ‘sin in the flesh ‘to propagate such lies and fables.
Man, in his vanity, is unaware of being manipulated to teach these doctrines of demons.
In his natural state man has no inkling about Satan and the domain of darkness.
Only the light of the Spirit can expose the darkness for what it is-rebellion against God.
If we can move forward in our discussions recognizing that there are true unclean spirits and that scripture also discusses fake unclean spirits that have no power, that would be good!
I’d like to start out using the below scripture again, so that we can recognize that what is fake is not just the heathen creations made out of wood, brass, and stone, but as well their beliefs in gods and their unclean spirits are likewise simply inventions of man.
Revelation 9: 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
There were/are various beliefs when it comes to unclean spirits and God warned not to mingle with heathens and acquire their beliefs, because what they believed in was fake.
Ezekiel 13: 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Jeremiah 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you…..24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. 25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; 27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal… 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
NOW recall,
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;…7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
These seducing unclean spirits are actually nothing but deceit from man’s own spirit. What we have are people who deceive, using drugs, speaking lies, using trickery. They are from man’s own imagination.
Interesting to note that in Egypt, and likewise other places, authorities would gather the people, drug them with hallucinogens and then perform their rituals and teach their doctrines.
Revelations 18: 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Sorcery Transliterated Word Pharmakeia
the use or the administering of drugs
poisoning
sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry
“ cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness;”
These men are adversaries and slanderers to God, they pose and are seen as being messengers of light, but they bring nothing but DECEIT and FABLES.
The truth is Israel mingled with the heathens, they took their fables and created their own false beliefs of which included false beliefs about unclean spirits.
Nick can you attest to this truth?
Hi Nick,
You said, “Man, in his vanity, is unaware of being manipulated to teach these doctrines of demons.”
The passages I have given do not mention one word of manipulation other than coming from one man to another man. Likewise the passages I gave speak of their fake visions and doctrines as coming from within themselves.
I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness
works of their hands
follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing
every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart,
they speak a vision of their own heart
they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart
What the passages LITERALLY tell us is that men deceive other men, and that their deceptions are their own inventions, not from a spirit manipulating them.
We are LITERALLY told that men sin FOLLOWING their OWN spirit.
If you want to claim at times they ALSO sin by following another spirit, give us those scriptures.
Hi Jodi I think that’s right on alot of people get caught by men and women that teach them faslehood and once they get caught in it its hard to get out . The only way is to study yourself out. We need to keep trying to keep it as close to the original we can. I look at the word literally unless it speaks otherwise which it does but if we start taking types and symbols and thing of that sort and try to build a foindatfou for proof for doctorings that doesn’t work, we could make the word say anything ya right on Jodi God bless
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
