Genesis 1, was god himself the us and our

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,15:45)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,12:58) Jesus does both as I recall plus, in the temple He has the office of High Priest. Hi Kathi, You are so right.  Jesus is the Priest.  When has God ever allowed one of His PRIESTS to be worshipped?  A priest is one who goes before God in behalf of mankind.  A priest is not the God he goes before, nor is he worshipped as if he IS that God.  And also, a priest does “rule” in a spiritual way FROM THE TEMPLE OF HIS GOD.  Just like Jesus will, right? peace and love, mike

Bump for Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2011,20:20)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2011,16:01) Mike, No one else is seated on the “Father's throne” but the Father and the Son, so that would have been a better question from me. Do you know of any verse that one sits on the Father's throne in the temple of the Lord that is not deity? Hi Kathi, I forgot about this thread for a minute!   My answer is “NO”.  Jesus is a god, or “deity”, for that's all the word means.  And all “god” means is “powerful ruler”.  So yes, the second most powerful ruler in existence was GRANTED by HIS God to sit on the throne of HIS God with Him. What's your point?  How does this make Jesus have a temple where people can go to worship him?   peace and love, mike

Mike,
Is Jesus the only god/God that the Father has sit on His throne? Did you read that He/Jesus holds two offices, one being the ruler of all and the priest of all, holding both offices at the same time forever?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,12:42)

Mike, Is Jesus the only god/God that the Father has sit on His throne? Did you read that He/Jesus holds two offices, one being the ruler of all and the priest of all, holding both offices at the same time forever?

Hi Kathi,

Can those who overcome sit on God's throne?

And yes, Jesus will be A ruler forever………not THE ruler. Many will rule alongside him, and his God will be the head ruler over him, as He always has been and always will be.

Now, let's deal with that “Priest” issue, shall we? Do we worship the PRIESTS of God as if they ARE God? YES or NO. Do PRIESTS of God have their own temples? Or do they serve at GOD'S temple?

peace and love,
mike

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Those who overcome sit on the Son of God's throne, they are sons of God and they have a part in the kingdom of God and have some authority, but they don't sit on the Father's throne. Does satan sit on any throne forever, or any so-called gods? Is there any higher throne than the one that the Father sits on that Jesus doesn't also sit on? Two theos on one throne, the highest throne in heaven and earth, the highest throne of all would equal a two person rule or Godhead. We have one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ on ONE throne and that is the Godhead in its fullness, a very good term for that I would say. Does Jesus ever step down from the highest throne in heaven or on earth?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,13:33)

Two theos on one throne, the highest throne in heaven and earth, the highest throne of all would equal a two person rule or Godhead.

Hi Kathi,

I believe you are confused.  If there was a Godhead signified by Jesus sitting on the throne of his God, there would be no reason for Jesus to have his OWN throne at all.  Nor does any scripture imply that Jesus is STILL on his God's throne, or how long he was GRANTED by HIS GOD to sit on it.

Look, if those who overcome can sit on JESUS' throne, but NOT on GOD'S throne, what does that tell you?  God is much higher, and Jesus is more accesible to us because he is NOT God.  He is the mediator BETWEEN mankind and his God.

Will you answer the “priest” point?

mike

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Jesus is both priest/mediator and king at the same time on the highest throne possible. What does it mean to you to be sitting on the highest throne possible for ever?

Jesus as priest is like none other. He is a priest in a temple not made with hands for one thing, and He is not only the High Priest forever but also the King ruler in the temple forever. The temple is the church, His church…His temple. A priest merely stands in the presence of the ruler in the temple but not so with Jesus, He sits…He holds both offices forever and He sits on the Father's throne.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 06 2011,11:21)

Lightenup……….Why does it say “and the Kingdom will we Given to the Saints of the Most High and they shall poses it forever” then? Our bodies are the temple of the most high God live vicariously in and through all his creation and that include Jesus and Us,  and all that has life in it. It was not Jesus saying “destory this temple and in three day (I) shall raise it up ” that was GOD the FATHER Speaking through Jesus mouth. He truly was (IN) Jesus and that does not Make Jesus the GOD that was (IN) Him and speaking through him as the false teachers of the Trinity and Preexistence teach. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

Gene,
I'm not sure of your question. The saints will always be part of the kingdom of God…forever the saints will possess the kingdom. That doesn't mean they will be in the highest office of the kingdom but that they will live in the kingdom forever as far as I can tell.

Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and our bodies make up the church…a temple not made with hands. And in heaven, the Father and the Lamb are the temple, They are the place to go to worship…go to the Father AND the Lamb.

Jesus was speaking for Himself when He said that He would raise up the temple in three days. Jesus built the church by dying and ascending to heaven on the third day. The Father raised the body to life and Jesus raised Himself to heaven all on the third day. Jesus raised Himself to heaven after He told Mary not to touch Him but to go tell His disciples that He will go ascend to the Father and then up He went. The church/new temple began on the third day after His body died.

The begotten God created all things on earth and in heaven, made appearances at various times on earth and later became flesh also. The Father's spirit dwelled within Him and led Him as the man He had to become. He laid down His life for all mankind, something that a mere man cannot do no matter how righteous he is. The flesh died after the spirit was committed to the hands of the Father then after three days, the flesh was raised up and the spirit was returned to that body…a healed glorified body.

That is what I believe Gene. I know that you believe differently.
God bless!

[Baker]

Kathie!  If Jesus is to be worshiped, why is He our Mediator and High Priest to go to the Throne of God.  Also it makes no sense that Jesus is saying that His Father is greater then He is, if He is to be worshiped like His Father.
 
Jhn 4:21   Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.  

Jhn 4:22   Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  

Jhn 4:23   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  

When Jesus died for us, He was honored to sit in the hightest place next to our Heavenly Father, but that does not mean, He now wants to be worshiped, those Scriptures above are so true.  All you hear in  churches how they sing praises to Jesus……
Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Irene,
Jesus is not just the High Priest/Mediator, He is also the one on the throne that we bow to. He is on the throne of His Father at the right hand of the Father, seated with Him. We bow to the Son as God the Son, we bow to the Father as God the Father and in that way we recognize the difference.

Jesus has to be the High Priest/Mediator to establish peace between us and the Father and He is on the throne to keep that peace that He has established. He has both offices forever and is seated on the highest throne in heaven and on earth forever.

Also, I understand that churches exalt Jesus and sing praises to Him, they also praise the Father. The reason that Christ is emphasized, I think, is because Jesus is the only way to God. Jesus must stand out. Most all religions recognize the Most High God but only one says that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus. So if Jesus was barely mentioned, there wouldn't be much of a difference between Christianity and say, Islam. Christianity puts a great emphasis on Jesus so that no one leaves the service without knowing that He is the difference between the Christian church and non-Christian faiths. Also, Jesus is emphasized because He is the Head of the Church.

Blessings!

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,23:17)

Irene, Jesus is not just the High Priest/Mediator, He is also the one on the throne that we bow to.  He is on the throne of His Father at the right hand of the Father, seated with Him.  We bow to the Son as God the Son, we bow to the Father as God the Father and in that way we recognize the difference. Jesus has to be the High Priest/Mediator to establish peace between us and the Father and He is on the throne to keep that peace that He has established.  He has both offices forever and is seated on the highest throne in heaven and on earth forever. Also, I understand that churches exalt Jesus and sing praises to Him, they also praise the Father.  The reason that Christ is emphasized, I think, is because Jesus is the only way to God.  Jesus must stand out.  Most all religions recognize the Most High God but only one says that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus.  So if Jesus was barely mentioned, there wouldn't be much of a difference between Christianity and say, Islam.  Christianity puts a great emphasis on Jesus so that no one leaves the service without knowing that He is the difference between the Christian church and non-Christian faiths.   Also, Jesus is emphasized because He is the Head of the Church. Blessings!

Kathi

you don't even believe the words of Christ wen he says to worship his father only ,and now you arguing how we have to worship him ,???

you just follow your own set of rules.

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,16:17)

Irene, Jesus is not just the High Priest/Mediator, He is also the one on the throne that we bow to.  He is on the throne of His Father at the right hand of the Father, seated with Him.  We bow to the Son as God the Son, we bow to the Father as God the Father and in that way we recognize the difference. Jesus has to be the High Priest/Mediator to establish peace between us and the Father and He is on the throne to keep that peace that He has established.  He has both offices forever and is seated on the highest throne in heaven and on earth forever. Also, I understand that churches exalt Jesus and sing praises to Him, they also praise the Father.  The reason that Christ is emphasized, I think, is because Jesus is the only way to God.  Jesus must stand out.  Most all religions recognize the Most High God but only one says that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus.  So if Jesus was barely mentioned, there wouldn't be much of a difference between Christianity and say, Islam.  Christianity puts a great emphasis on Jesus so that no one leaves the service without knowing that He is the difference between the Christian church and non-Christian faiths.   Also, Jesus is emphasized because He is the Head of the Church. Blessings!

Sorry Kathi, but I don't agree with you. When I have gone to Church they don't worship our Heavenly Father at all. Even so, it's wrong, Scripture says so……by Jesus own words…..why do you even need a Mediator when you go directly to the Throne of God. I go through Jesus….your logic about Islam makes no sense. We need Jesus because He took away the scarifies of Animals, He is the perfect scarifies. No other needed. There too we go through Jesus to have our sins forgiven…..it is by Faith through Jesus Christ that we are saved. All this has nothing to do with the Worship of Jehovah God only…..
Peace and Love Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

To ALL…………Let get back to the subject here, who was the b(US) and the Our mentioned in Genesis, I still maintain they were the seven spirits of GOD being incorporated (INTO) Man. This would allow us to be able to (IMAGE) our GOD by those Spirits instilled into us these Spirit are what causes our Minds to function and reason and give us a much higher awareness then the animals and other creatures on earth. All life is (INSTALLED) within bodies that move on the earth but man required a much higher reasoning ability and therefore the term US or OUR, were used in Mans creation, the only Spirit not present at berth (I BELIEVE) is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH and as a result man could be decieved, and from this deception he exists in a state of confusion, until God Installs the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of TRUTH (IN) Us and then we start becoming filled with the mind of GOD and our thinking changes because our cognition is increased by the Spirit (intellect) of Truth added into us. “LET THIS “MIND” BE (IN) YOU WHICH WAS (IN) CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD”. This is the mind of GOD, God is sharing His life with us and (in) us and (through) us. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 08 2011,09:07)

To ALL…………Let get back to the subject here, who was the b(US) and the Our mentioned in Genesis, I still maintain they were the seven spirits of GOD  being incorporated (INTO) Man. This would allow us to be able to (IMAGE) our GOD by those Spirits instilled into us these Spirit are what causes our Minds to function and reason and give us a much higher awareness then the animals and other creatures on earth. All life is (INSTALLED) within bodies that move on the earth but man required a much higher reasoning ability and therefore the term US or OUR, were used in Mans creation, the only Spirit not present at berth (I BELIEVE) is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH and as a result man could be decieved,  and from this deception he exists in a state of confusion, until God Installs the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of TRUTH (IN) Us and then we start becoming filled with the mind of GOD and our thinking changes because our cognition is increased by the Spirit (intellect) of Truth added into us. “LET THIS “MIND” BE (IN) YOU WHICH WAS (IN) CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD”. This is the mind of GOD, God is sharing His life with us and (in) us and (through) us. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………………gene

gene

just for the records;God was before the beginning of creation alone;this means ONE;right

at is first creation or work,does no matter what you call it it is first beside God,THE WORD (Christ)

this is ONE and so now you have two,then God created angels
200,000,000 so now you have 200,000,002 spirits being
or individuals,
then God created the universe,right.

then comes to the creation or transformation of the earth,right.

then comes in final creation of men ,right,

scriptures say there are two who are totally involved in creation ONE is GOD and he create trough CHRIST ,right

so there are the US from Geneses 1;image

Pierre

[Baker]

Gene!  In Genesis it says let us make man in our image.  Scriptures say's in

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  

Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him.

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.  

Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  

You do not believe that The Word of God is Jesus, however in

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

These Scriptures show me that The Word of God is Jesus.

Scriptuire also says that there is One Holy Spirit in

Eph 4:4   [There is] one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

You say that there are seven Spirits?  The Scripture in Rev. means that God's Spirit is perfect His number 7.

If that would mean what you say, the Scripture in Ephesian would contradict the Scripture in Rev.
And that I do not believe……

So the us and our is Jesus. He was there before the world was..

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  .

Peace Irene

[Lightenup]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 07 2011,07:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,16:17) Irene, Jesus is not just the High Priest/Mediator, He is also the one on the throne that we bow to.  He is on the throne of His Father at the right hand of the Father, seated with Him.  We bow to the Son as God the Son, we bow to the Father as God the Father and in that way we recognize the difference. Jesus has to be the High Priest/Mediator to establish peace between us and the Father and He is on the throne to keep that peace that He has established.  He has both offices forever and is seated on the highest throne in heaven and on earth forever. Also, I understand that churches exalt Jesus and sing praises to Him, they also praise the Father.  The reason that Christ is emphasized, I think, is because Jesus is the only way to God.  Jesus must stand out.  Most all religions recognize the Most High God but only one says that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus.  So if Jesus was barely mentioned, there wouldn't be much of a difference between Christianity and say, Islam.  Christianity puts a great emphasis on Jesus so that no one leaves the service without knowing that He is the difference between the Christian church and non-Christian faiths.   Also, Jesus is emphasized because He is the Head of the Church. Blessings! Sorry Kathi, but I don't agree with you.  When I have gone to Church they don't worship our Heavenly Father at all.  Even so, it's wrong, Scripture says so……by Jesus own words…..why do you even need a Mediator when you go directly to the Throne of God.  I go through Jesus….your logic about Islam makes no sense.  We need Jesus because He took away the scarifies of Animals, He is the perfect scarifies.  No other needed.  There too we go through Jesus to have our sins forgiven…..it is by Faith through Jesus Christ that we are saved.  All this has nothing to do with the Worship of Jehovah God only….. Peace and Love Irene

Irene,
Every church I have ever gone to has worshiped the Father.
Every knee will bow to Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father.  Worship to the Son is also worship to the Father.  Jesus never said to NOT worship Him as the Son.  His emphasis is to worship the Father and many realize that worshipping His only Son that He has given to us and exalted to the highest throne in heaven and on earth gives the Father glory and whatever gives the Father glory is an act of worshipping the Father.

Every knee bowed to baal or any other so-called god does not give the Father glory.

Every knee bowed to Jesus as Lord does give the Father glory.

If you went to a church that only spoke about the Father, and you believed only in the Father…you would not be saved.  If a church did not emphasize the Son you might miss the gospel message that only through the Son can you come to the Father. I think that is why the churches emphasize the Son.  The Father is easy to believe in if you have faith in God and many faiths believe in the Father.  Only one faith believes in His Son Jesus as the necessary way to the Father and that is Christianity.

You want the churches to mainly speak about the Father and just some of the Son, it seems.  However the power is in the name of the Son.  All is done in the name of the Son…whatever we ask.  If we have the Son, we also will have the Father.
 
1 John 5:9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Concluding Affirmations

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,11:58)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 07 2011,07:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 07 2011,16:17) Irene, Jesus is not just the High Priest/Mediator, He is also the one on the throne that we bow to.  He is on the throne of His Father at the right hand of the Father, seated with Him.  We bow to the Son as God the Son, we bow to the Father as God the Father and in that way we recognize the difference. Jesus has to be the High Priest/Mediator to establish peace between us and the Father and He is on the throne to keep that peace that He has established.  He has both offices forever and is seated on the highest throne in heaven and on earth forever. Also, I understand that churches exalt Jesus and sing praises to Him, they also praise the Father.  The reason that Christ is emphasized, I think, is because Jesus is the only way to God.  Jesus must stand out.  Most all religions recognize the Most High God but only one says that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus.  So if Jesus was barely mentioned, there wouldn't be much of a difference between Christianity and say, Islam.  Christianity puts a great emphasis on Jesus so that no one leaves the service without knowing that He is the difference between the Christian church and non-Christian faiths.   Also, Jesus is emphasized because He is the Head of the Church. Blessings! Sorry Kathi, but I don't agree with you.  When I have gone to Church they don't worship our Heavenly Father at all.  Even so, it's wrong, Scripture says so……by Jesus own words…..why do you even need a Mediator when you go directly to the Throne of God.  I go through Jesus….your logic about Islam makes no sense.  We need Jesus because He took away the scarifies of Animals, He is the perfect scarifies.  No other needed.  There too we go through Jesus to have our sins forgiven…..it is by Faith through Jesus Christ that we are saved.  All this has nothing to do with the Worship of Jehovah God only….. Peace and Love Irene Irene, Every church I have ever gone to has worshiped the Father. Every knee will bow to Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father.  Worship to the Son is also worship to the Father.  Jesus never said to NOT worship Him as the Son.  His emphasis is to worship the Father and many realize that worshipping His only Son that He has given to us and exalted to the highest throne in heaven and on earth gives the Father glory and whatever gives the Father glory is an act of worshipping the Father. Every knee bowed to baal or any other so-called god does not give the Father glory. Every knee bowed to Jesus as Lord does give the Father glory. If you went to a church that only spoke about the Father, and you believed only in the Father…you would not be saved.  If a church did not emphasize the Son you might miss the gospel message that only through the Son can you come to the Father. I think that is why the churches emphasize the Son.  The Father is easy to believe in if you have faith in God and many faiths believe in the Father.  Only one faith believes in His Son Jesus as the necessary way to the Father and that is Christianity. You want the churches to mainly speak about the Father and just some of the Son, it seems.  However the power is in the name of the Son.  All is done in the name of the Son…whatever we ask.  If we have the Son, we also will have the Father.   \9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. Concluding Affirmations 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Kathi
you say;;
Every knee bowed to baal or any other so-called god does not give the Father glory
======================

kneeling is = to believing

not kneeling is not believing'

Pierre

[Lightenup]

I know Pierre, I'm not sure why you commented like that.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,14:15)

I know Pierre, I'm not sure why you commented like that.

Kathi

it is your connection to use this as a worship argument and it is not

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Put it this way…I believe that we are to believe in the Father and the Son, follow them, seek them, fellowship with them, honor and glorify them. Do you have a problem with that?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,16:10)

Pierre, Put it this way…I believe that we are to believe in the Father and the Son, follow them, seek them, fellowship with them, honor and glorify them.  Do you have a problem with that?

Kathi

yes ,i have a problem with it because you like to worship Jesus,wen Jesus says to worship his father only,

and also scriptures says that we have to become like Christ ,because he is the one who show us the way,
and how can you believe God who you have never seen but we have men who saw the son,
and made us know the father,our God,

Pierre

[Author]

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