General answers to posts

[Cato]

Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 29 2008,14:59)

Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 29 2008,10:03) Regarding this entry that you have made, it's just your mean-spirited opinon.  Men wrote the bible, Nick.  If this is not true, are you willing to say that the errors we have found like 1John 5:7 was the work of the Spirit of God?  Of course you wouldn't want to agree to that!  But it poses a problem doesn't it?  Which words are written by the Spirit of God and which ones can we contribute to men? Nick, are you willing to address this?  All attitude aside, I really would like to know in light of some errors of the bible, how are we to know which words are from the Spirit of God and which are credited to man? Thanks, Mandy

Mandy,

You place Nick in a corner, for as he believes the Bible not only to be divinely inspired, but the divine truth where all answers (spiritual) are to be found, then it must be without flaw.  If there are flaws, descrepencies, contridictions, etc., they threaten the very bedrock of his faith, for if one part is wrong it then threatens all.  So therefore he simply will not see any contridictions you may propose and shift the argument to your lack of faith, understanding, etc., for he can not do otherwise without destroying the foundations of his belief.

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2008,19:18)

Hi mandy, You need the map and the compass.

(Shaking head back and forth), Sigh……

Hey Nick, I've lost my map and compass, what does yours say about a “second coming”?

Seriously, I'll let it rest now. After all, wise Cato is right. I do not want to shake your bedrock of faith. You have worked hard, I'm sure, to seek God and work out your salvation. What answers you have found are the answers you will be staying with regardless. It's just a shame you have no explaination for believing something that isn't written.

I hope you will think twice before telling someone to stay with “what is written”. After all, you cannot follow your own advice or at least explain why you are believing something that isn't written (you won't even attempt at the answer which I find very disheartening and curious).

Take care Nick, and thank you for attempting to point me in the right direction.

Love,
Mandy

[Mandy]

Quote (Cato @ Mar. 01 2008,01:49)

You place Nick in a corner

That was the whole idea.

When you are in a corner, you have to look straight ahead of you at your options. Do I go right?, left?, straight?, stay where I am?

Studying the bible has placed me in a corner numerous times, it's not comfortable or easy. But sometimes you are forced to see things for what they really are and make a decision (or not).

Nick won't even entertain the possibilities, or recognize that there is a choice to be made. Perhaps unknowingly, he renders his tag line to nonesense. You must test something before you can determine that it is “good”. If you won't look at the evidence and accept the facts, you are not in a position to truly test anything. You only accept what you see and hear as truth (i.e., have faith).

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
If you were walking with Jesus to Emmaus and he pointed out Is 53 would you shake your head and say that you can't believe it?

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
You cannot give someone faith. It is given from above.

[Cato]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2008,05:33)

Hi cato, You cannot give someone faith. It is given from above.

Of course not, you can encourage and nurture such, but in the end it is ultimately internal.  I think however you confuse faith with grace.  The direction and inspiration may come from above, but it is an internal process that accepts or rejects, you either choose to  belief in something you can not prove or you don't, it is up to you.  The divine does not give faith it offers you something to have faith in, which is quite different.  If it gave faith, then free will is impugned, and salvation hinges on those who are bestowed with such a gift.  No faith is a choice and grace a possible result thereof.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
faith too is grace.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

So what faith we have must be treasured that we may grow in grace. Without faith we cannot grow.

1 Timothy 2:8
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Jas1
6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

And grace builds on faith

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2008,05:13)

Hi mandy, If you were walking with Jesus to Emmaus and he pointed out Is 53 would you shake your head and say that you can't believe it?

I would have had some questions for him.

Knowing my heart, he would see that I am a true seeker and not cast me aside as an antichrist, but he would see me for what I am. I'm sure we'd have a long chat, and then I'd invite him over for some BBQ.

[Stu]

Is god-faith an optional extra to life, part of the package of beliefs and perhaps acts that are required to get into a blissful eternity, or are they the very essence of being? If the latter, why do so many people function so well as human beings without god-faith?

Look into the eyes of the Pakistanis protesting against the Danish cartoons we saw on TV. They have been deluded into equating their 'submission' with every single fibre of their being. I think such an anti-human manipulation of people is what I might call 'evil', and I think the attentuated versions of that which we see in christian fundamentalism are exactly the same. If you attack the faith you attack the person, but the faith is just an idea in the head, whether or not there is a supernatural thing to worship.

Stuart

[Cato]

There is always a fine line between faith and superstition, between belief in that what can't be proven and belief in that which proof counterindicates.  Yes Stuart I agree that much evil is done in the name of such “faith” and I can like, John Lennon imagine, “no religion too”.  It is unfortunate that many forget the major tenents of their respective beliefs while doing evil over minor differences thereof.  I think it stems from hubris, I am right therefore you are wrong, and since my right stems from God then any action I take is justified by divine will or holy mandate.

[Mandy]

Regarding the Sabbath:

I fought this subject with Ken for many pages of the thread. I didn't think it needed to be on a certain day and I certainly didn't think we had to restrict anything – just praise God and maybe read a verse or two.

Boy was I missing out on a blessing and treasure of God.

Honoring the Sabbath has been an amazing path of obedience, in my opinion. My kids are turned-on to it now and I've almost got my husband ready to admit that when we rest on Saturday, everything else falls in line.

I don't believe the commandment was just for those who are/were considered Israel. It's for all God's kids. Hey, kids need naps! And God knew this.

[Mandy]

Nick writes:
Hi,
Christ is the root of David and Jesse.
He is also the righteous branch from their roots.
Isaiah 4:2
In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel.

**Jesus wasn't beautiful and glorious. In fact there are other scriptures that say there was no beauty in him at all – nothing to draw men to him. Why are these two things opposing? Plus, there wasn't any “fruit of the land” produced while Jesus was alive on earth. He left the world the way it was – Israel's survivor's were not left with any pride and glory. Why? There wasn't any clues to a second coming either. So why should we believe Jesus is the Messiah when nothing that was supposed to happen did?

Jeremiah 23:5
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

***But Jesus didn't reign as King and there is no talk of second comings. This doesn't say he will reign upon a “return” either.

I keep looking…

Christ, the Branch of David, will rule on earth from Jerusalem in Israel. We who are branches of his vine will be with him.

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,

Do not forget context
“In that day..”
If you do not know Christ how can you be one with him?

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
If you accept the exceptional miracles done through Jesus as being true then do you accept he was the anointed one of God?

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 05 2008,05:56)

Regarding the Sabbath: I fought this subject with Ken for many pages of the thread.  I didn't think it needed to be on a certain day and I certainly didn't think we had to restrict anything – just praise God and maybe read a verse or two. Boy was I missing out on a blessing and treasure of God. Honoring the Sabbath has been an amazing path of obedience, in my opinion.  My kids are turned-on to it now and I've almost got my husband ready to admit that when we rest on Saturday, everything else falls in line.   I don't believe the commandment was just for those who are/were considered Israel.  It's for all God's kids.    Hey, kids need naps!  And God knew this.

Hi Mandy! Remember that I argued with Ken about the Sabbath too. but now He agrees with me that the Law is made spiritual and Jesus magniefied the law. We are not under that Covenant any more. We have a New Covenant that Jesus gave us. We are under His Blood and Sin is not imputed to us. We have received the Holy Spirit at Baptizm and The Father and Jesus live in us. We are the Temple of God. So every day is Holy to us not just the Sabbath day.
Romans 14:5 ” One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. let each be fully convinced in his own mind.”

Verse 6 he who observes the day observes it to the Lord, and he who does not does not observe it…….

verse 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brothers way. So we should walk in the Spirit always. If we do we do not sin.
Yes, keep the Sabbath but not to the letter of the law, but rather by the Spirit of that law. Jesus made it that way on the Sermon on the Mount. Is that easy? No, the road is steep and few will find it.

Peace and Love Irene

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,07:24)

Hi mandy, If you accept the exceptional miracles done through Jesus as being true then do you accept he was the anointed one of God?

Miracles do not prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah. You may remember that other's performed miracles under the “annointing” of God as well.

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,06:49)

Hi Mandy, Do not forget context “In that day..” If you do not know Christ how can you be one with him?

“….in that day…” was referring to the day that the promised One would come and take reign. All that was expected did not happen through Jesus when he came (in that day).

It's like I told Isaiah through a private email….I want to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I have no emotional investment in proving otherwise. I'm merely looking at the evidence stacking up.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 05 2008,11:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,07:24) Hi mandy, If you accept the exceptional miracles done through Jesus as being true then do you accept he was the anointed one of God? Miracles do not prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah.  You may remember that other's performed miracles under the “annointing” of God as well.

Hi mandy,
So you do accept the miracles of the prophets?
Were their recorded words all truth from God?

[Stu]

Regarding prophecy fulfillment, have we considered 1 Corinthians 3-4 yet?

Stuart

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,12:16)

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 05 2008,11:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,07:24) Hi mandy, If you accept the exceptional miracles done through Jesus as being true then do you accept he was the anointed one of God? Miracles do not prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah.  You may remember that other's performed miracles under the “annointing” of God as well. Hi mandy, So you do accept the miracles of the prophets? Were their recorded words all truth from God?

I don't know about the “words”. Words have been recorded, copied, filled-in, changed…… But I do believe God worked through his children to show great signs and wonders! I believe miracles still happen today.

[Author]

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