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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,16:55) Hi Stu,
So we need higher thoughts than the majority would offer?
I agree.
Well a majority of US citizens discount evolution by natural selection as the theory that explains the origins of species. If they were exposed to 'higher thoughts' I am pretty sure that the level of science-skepticism would drop (assuming they were willing to be even-handed about the arguments). At the basest level creationism wins every time because of the part of us that puts up a barrier to ideas that are not intuitive and because the message is often delivered in a religious environment that is specially prepared for encouraging belief without evidence (just watch any televangelist). As you move through the higher thought processes evolution begins to win and creationism loses very quickly.
Bloom’s Taxonomy is one obvious way of charting such progress.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_taxonomy
In the affective domain, you go from Receiving (the sermon that denounces all that is not biblical) to Responding (Amen!) to Valuing (does this have meaning for me?) to Organising (how does this fit with the reality I know) and finally characterising (I have taken this on board and act it out as reality). If at the valuing and organising level you have the capacity or motivation to be objective, then creationism will be obviously not of value because it is not able to fit in with reality.
In the cognitive domain, you start with knowledge (the theory of evolution and the doctrine of creationism). Your comprehension then tells you what each means in its own terms. At this stage the pastor could still be winning because many find accurate comprehension of science a challenge. You analyse and classify the arguments as categories such as science or religion or testable or faith. In your synthesis you test whether there are useful predictions to be made (natural selection makes many, creationism makes none) and then your evaluation determines that creationism is not useful science and natural selection is. You may come to the obverse conclusions of course, but in my experience that is quite rare.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Arriving at a conclusion is also what happens when you jump off a cliff.
It is not always helpful.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,20:12) Hi Stu,
Well they are if the scientist jumps off the cliff too.
No data recorded.
What?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2008,22:40) Hi Stu,
Quite so.
So a majority opinion against scriptural truth is not relevant either.
Yes. That is why each individual has his/her own view of the truth which may or may not match that of his neighbor.Indeed. That is why your opinion of what is written often is different than another Christian's opinion on what is written.
Tell me, how do you know which parts of the bible are symbolic — such as plucking out an eye or lopping off a hand — or literal, like “You shall not murder”?
And don't give me the answer “The holy spirit” because for every Christian who believes that, there is a different answer to what is literal and what is symbolic. And yet both will say they have the same “holy spirit”. Always interesting.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,15:43) Speaking of angels, Christians stay confused because - Heb 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
2Co 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
And precisely what point are you trying to make here kejonn?? We should not neglect to show hospitality to strangers because in reality it might be Satan himself??
Hi KJ,
You seem to want to propose that confusion rules the kingdom of God because it rules you.
I disagree.
Psalm 71:1
In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion.Isaiah 34:11
But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.James 3:16
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,21:50) Indeed. That is why your opinion of what is written often is different than another Christian's opinion on what is written. Tell me, how do you know which parts of the bible are symbolic — such as plucking out an eye or lopping off a hand — or literal, like “You shall not murder”?
Hi KJ:You ask:
Quote Tell me, how do you know which parts of the bible are symbolic — such as plucking out an eye or lopping off a hand — or literal, like “You shall not murder”? What part of this would you say is symbolic and what is literal?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,21:29) Hi KJ,
It is written.
The Origin of the Species is written too. How do you pick and choose from all the stuff that is written? You still won't say whether your god as told you to read the bible and not the Origin of Species. Has he?Stuart
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 29 2008,15:07) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,15:43) Speaking of angels, Christians stay confused because - Heb 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
2Co 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
And precisely what point are you trying to make here kejonn?? We should not neglect to show hospitality to strangers because in reality it might be Satan himself??
Not me, the bible. After all, it tells us to be hospitable, but obviously also suspicious.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,15:43) Hi KJ,
You seem to want to propose that confusion rules the kingdom of God because it rules you.
I disagree.
Psalm 71:1
In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion.Isaiah 34:11
But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.James 3:16
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
If confusion is not ruling Christianity, why so many people with differing beliefs?Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2008,17:06) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,21:50) Indeed. That is why your opinion of what is written often is different than another Christian's opinion on what is written. Tell me, how do you know which parts of the bible are symbolic — such as plucking out an eye or lopping off a hand — or literal, like “You shall not murder”?
Hi KJ:You ask:
Quote Tell me, how do you know which parts of the bible are symbolic — such as plucking out an eye or lopping off a hand — or literal, like “You shall not murder”? What part of this would you say is symbolic and what is literal?
What part of what? If you mean plucking eyes or chopping off hands, I've yet to see a Christian missing an eye or hand
.Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 30 2008,11:33) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 29 2008,15:07) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,15:43) Speaking of angels, Christians stay confused because - Heb 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
2Co 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
And precisely what point are you trying to make here kejonn?? We should not neglect to show hospitality to strangers because in reality it might be Satan himself??
Not me, the bible. After all, it tells us to be hospitable, but obviously also suspicious.
riiiight…
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