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Hi M42:
Our purpose as God's children is to glorify Him in the earth as we learn to apply His Word that He has taught us through the example of the life of our Lord Jesus.
We become like Him in our character as we learn to apply his Word in our daily lives.
Of course, we are interested in drawing others into a personal relationship with God as well through the life that we live.
I agree with the answers that RR has given to the specific questions that you asked.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 19 2006,00:34) Hi M42: Our purpose as God's children is to glorify Him in the earth as we learn to apply His Word that He has taught us through the example of the life of our Lord Jesus.
We become like Him in our character as we learn to apply his Word in our daily lives.
Of course, we are interested in drawing others into a personal relationship with God as well through the life that we live.
I agree with the answers that RR has given to the specific questions that you asked.
God Bless
If I continue to recieve reasonable posts like this I might continue on this board. I was about to give up on finding anyone in which I had a common ground.Wonderfull response. thank you!!!
Hi M42
Quote We need to KNOW our Father
not just KNOW ABOUT Him.I have already discussed the above with Nick in another topic somewhere. Not interested in going around in circles with him any more. I have made the decision that if I am to participate on this board I must ignore Nick’s posts.
A few of topics that I have had greater participated in under this same topic are:
Are we born with sin?
Conception – Was Jesus Conceived?
What is Man?
Who is Jesus?Cheers
Ramblin –
This board is entertaining but to be able to use this venue as a ministry or even a very good teaching tool is very doubtfull. The only thing that can honestly be accompolished is the exchange of intelectual data and philosophy. This is not the way in which Christ or the apostles taught. True biblical teachers, that are of great service, have always had their words backed up by God with signs and wonders. That is not likely to happen on here. Nor is the personal face to face interaction so very effective in real ministry.
Acts 14:3
3 Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.Mark 16:20
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.You know I have had a few very sweet and wise replies on this subject, but I am amazed at the lack of interest in this subject. this is more important then debating scripture or any philosophy. It is the most important test for any teaching. Without a test of function and purpose in a teaching, how do we determine it's worth in following? If a doctrine does not move us closer to becoming like Christ. what's the point.
As I said I am dumbfounded at the lack of interest.
Hi m42,
Perhaps aware of the derivation of theological hermeneutics from a greek base of philosophy and science, and a Jewish base of failed pragmatism, and the inability of the wind of the Spirit to be constrained within such flawed human boundaries, men are cautious to embrace possible new prisons of vain and dead human intellect?But we can learn from all things and you have much that is useful to help us so please continue.
“1. Do you believe Jesus Christ is
A. A part of a Triune God
B. Fully Human (Body, soul, spirit, and will)
C. A lesser God
d. A dual natured creature 100% God and 100% man.2 Do you believe Jesus Christ is the pattern son. The example for the rest of humanity?
3. Do you believe man has free will to choose to follow God or not?
4. Do you believe man has inherited sin from Adam?”
I have not been in this forum for long so this is the first time that I have seen this thread.
Thanks Nick for bringing it back to the top.I am in way over my head theologically with some of you here. But I will give my beliefs and see where it goes from there.
1.A No
B Yes
C Yes
D No
2. Yes
3. No
4. I really have never thought so, or understood that thinking, but we are constantly told that
this is a fact in church.I am intering into this discussion mainly because I want to see where music4two goes with it.
I would like to see it continue.The apparent lack of interest could be because some people are afraid to broach a subject that will
require actual thinking out of the box, instead of just pasting scriptures that they have been told answers questions.
I am in that boat myself. I do not want to appear ignorant, even though I am.Tim
Hi m42,
You said
“I thonk your question would be answeres with a better translation.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? (functional) There is only One who is good; (functional) but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(NASB)the Greek confirmes this translation. “
Christ is not functional in comparison to God?
I believe you are inappropriately reducing the meaning of goodness to something amoral, non aesthetic and just greek and scientific.Hi m42,
“Psalms 118
1Give thanks to the LORD, for He is good;(functional)
For His lovingkindness is everlasting. “God is functional?
God is useful to us?Your God is seen in relationship to us where it is us that should try to be seen as useful to the Awesome One.
Tim, do you seriously think Man doesnt have Free Will to follow God or not?
Anyway here are my answers to the questions M42 posted.
1. Do you believe Jesus Christ is
B. Fully Human (Body, soul, spirit, and will)
2 Do you believe Jesus Christ is the pattern son. The example for the rest of humanity?
Yes
3. Do you believe man has free will to choose to follow God or not?
Yes
4. Do you believe man has inherited sin from Adam?
Yes
Hugs Phoenix
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2007,19:27) Hi m42,
You said
“I thonk your question would be answeres with a better translation.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? (functional) There is only One who is good; (functional) but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(NASB)the Greek confirmes this translation. “
Christ is not functional in comparison to God?
I believe you are inappropriately reducing the meaning of goodness to something amoral, non aesthetic and just greek and scientific.
It seems you ae straining a gnat and swallowing a camel. You are compartmentalizing things.
the point I am trying to make is that everything that God does is functional. He does not simple teach something to give us more head knowledge. Christ, because He is the exact representation of God, also teaches that which serves a purpose and is functional.The very name of God YHWH in simplest terms means I am. I exist I live I function.
There are dozens of times God is compared to Idols that have no purpose or life within them. God on the other hand is portrayed as alive and functions in action and thought.I have never been accused of lack of the aesthetic. In fact on a personal level, i am a published poet and composer. Believing in passion and beauty in God is important to me. what I refuse to do is attach a sloopy agape emotional milk toast interpretation and miss the way in which God actually works in His creation.
There is great aesthetic beauty in God's wisdom, work, function and plan. Even greater beauty is found the end results of God's functional teachings.Hi m42,
I seem to hear you say that we copy Christ in out own strength. Is this true?
Do we need to be reborn from above and be led by the Spirit to be able to follow him?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2007,00:06) Hi m42,
I seem to hear you say that we copy Christ in out own strength. Is this true?
Do we need to be reborn from above and be led by the Spirit to be able to follow him?
I am sorry you do not understand my points. It seems you continue to compartmentalize what I say. I am speaking of an overall way of walking with God. Walking from a functional, relational way. It is a paridine shift from learning about God as we reason things out to knowing God as we have an experiantial life that functions in everything that occurs therein.
It is seeing the scriptues as subservent to the functionality of God's plan. For instance; when someone tells me I should believe something, the first question should be, How does it function to help me become like Christ? How does it further the plan and purpose of God for my life and His kingdom? It does not matter what you can prove from scripture till that question is answered. Without those questions addressed, you end up with a debate venue that simply argues interpretation processes and minor details and never sees lives really changed. this is precisely why I do not take forums such as this too seriously. I have never seen one that takes the approach of changing lives over the purpose of intelectual debate. I am not even sure it is possible in this type of forum.I am speaking of a wholistic approach to walking with God that considers, first and formost not what one can prove from debate, but what one can do to promote God's kingdom and His people. I am speaking matters of heart change and not just changing someone's mind.
Everything I have posted about functionality is asking the same question of all teachers of any doctrine. What does your doctrine do to promote the kingdom of God and to help mature and perfect His people. I am not talking about aquiring more head knowledge. I am talking about something that changes the heart and character of a man. I am talking about teachings that actually enchorage and build our faith because it shows us example of really becoming like Christ.
It is easy to throw out phrases like Be reborn from above and led by the Spirit, but without real concrete understanding of how that works in a persons life, it's so much rhetoric.
Let me give example. —
Someone says something minor to you, at work, that hurts your feelings.
You will respond in one of several ways. Which one produces good fruits and furthers your becoming like Christ1. I cannot go to work tomorrow, I am too hurt.
You missed the mark!
2. I will just squash this down and ignor it.
You missed it!
3. I'll get them back for it.
You missed it!
4. Let me see if I can manifest pseudo-love, but make sure I find a scripture to point out this person's fault.
You missed it.
5. Oh woe is me. Let me do my Eeor impression (from winnie the pooh)
You missed it.
6. Call you pastor who says. “Just have faith brother.” or “Just give it to God brother” but cannot explain what or how to do that.
7. Let me get out my handy dandy bullet list of scriptues having to do with the subject and see if that heals me.All the above responses are dysfunctional. They do nothing to help you.
Now consider a functional response. Faith when used as a verb is an action word. So I take action. I first recognise that if I get hurt over what someone says, i am not secure in God in that place in my heart. It should not matter what others say as long as God is smiling at me. I open my heart to God and ask him if there is something in my heart triggering a response not warranted by the circumstances. I wait for His answer with patience while continuing to keep my heart open to Him. I continually refuse to use my own knowledge of good and evil (function and dysfunction) to figure what to do. In order to deal with that place in my heart, He may have to deal with 15 other places first. I still keep my hands off it and let Him work in me. To truly be led by the Spirit, I have to let go of it and let Him work. I must chose to believe Him for His love and security for that place in my heart.
I know I use alot of words to describe a process that we all should understand in our hearts. but it is difficult to explain an experiancial process outside of the experiance iself. An experiance is a function. it requires action and not something to can mentally ascend to. one of the greatest mistakes Christians make is believing that if they posess a mental knowledge of a truth thay posses the truth itself. It is not untill you experiance that truths function in your life that you really possess it. Actually you may have to experiance it several times before you possess it fully.
There is more to say, but this is enough for now. Especially since I expect one or more of our resident philosophers to pull out some minor detail to try to debate.
Hi M42,
So from a functional point of view we can become like Christ without being born again, without the power of the Spirit, without the grace of God by just digging deep into our own resources and copying him?
Good luck!Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 22 2007,21:23) Tim, do you seriously think Man doesnt have Free Will to follow God or not?
Hi Phoenix,The only way that will can be free will is if there is no cause effecting that will.
The only way that the will to come to God can be free will, is if there is no outside cause to come to God.
We come to God through Jesus. Scriptures tell us that no one comes to Jesus unless God brings ( drags) them. So no free will there.
We are also told that we love God because God loved us first.
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.Again, no uncaused free will there.
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2007,04:04) Hi M42,
So from a functional point of view we can become like Christ without being born again, without the power of the Spirit, without the grace of God by just digging deep into our own resources and copying him?
Good luck!
did I say that. I know you are trying to stir things up to keep this venue active, but I wish you had an ounce of honesty and stop putting words in my mouth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2007,04:04) Hi M42,
So from a functional point of view we can become like Christ without being born again, without the power of the Spirit, without the grace of God by just digging deep into our own resources and copying him?
Good luck!
I am becoming very frustrated with your putting words in my mouth. I never said you do not need to born from above or be Spirit led. I never denied the grace of God. What I asked is how does that work? What is the process involved?
It's easy to say the words. It's alot harder to really tell someone how it works.
If I played your game I would say that you believe all is necessary is the grace of God. We need do nothing. God will do it all. I do not need to resist sin or seek help or pray or try in any way because God will just do it by grace. I do not need to work with God. I will be a wretched sinner one day and over a period of time God will automatically change me into the perfect bride of Christ. No effort is needed on my part.
If you have an axe to grind aganst me because I do not see or agree with the value you place on forums, then kick me off, but at least have the guts to tell the real reason and do not trump up things by putting words in my mouth.Hi m42,
No. You are a valued member here but there are some things we have not heard from you as to how we can follow Jesus. From much of what you have said it could be derived that salvation and understanding the ways of God is by our own natural human resources and it would be good if this confusion could be cleared up.Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.Mark 8:35
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Luke 9:24
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luke 17:33
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.I am offering you an opportunity to say clearly that we cannot save ourselves, that we must be born again, that we need the Spirit to lead us and that the grace of God is essential in the plan of God.
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