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gene
we went trough all this ,you repeat all things just like you have never seen what was given to you as Scriptures ,you could not produce a single scripture to backup you believes wen we show you 100 at the least of scriptures to show that man as to act of is free will and accept God as is saviour,
now if you keep this unhealthy behavior to claim truth what is not and claim lies what is truth,you may find your self fighting Christ.
UNDERSTAND NO MATTER WHAT IF GOD DOES NOT PROVIDE THE EXIT HOW CAN MEN BE SAVED?
HE CAN NOT BE SAVED,IT IS THE GRACE OF GOD THAT GOD GIVE US ,BUT THE LEAST OF OUR ACTION TO RECIEVE IT,IS TO GO TO HIM OUT OF OUR FREEWILL ,BECAUSE GOD WANTS WILLING PEOPLE, NOT SAMBYS.PEOPLE WHO LOVE HIM AND THAT HE CAN LOVE MORE.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 06 2010,05:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 05 2010,11:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 05 2010,16:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 05 2010,11:18) NIck………..You have added another element there, My bible says He took from dust and made a body and added Spirit into it and then man Body+Spirit (BECAME) a LIVING SOUL. Jesus did not share you dogmas when He said “do not fear him who can destory the body and do nothing more but fear him who can (destory) Both body and Soul in the (GRAVE)” . Now it appears the the soul can die (IN) the grave Show scripture support of what you say, “Breath of GOD making body soul and spirit”, like there are (three) distinct thing there. You have it all wrong a BODY PLUS SPIRIT = A SOUL.
Gene Balthrop,Be careful with your mathlike reasoning.
Spirit + Body creates a Living Soul but does not equal a living soul.
Scripture provides examples of the spirit and soul being seperate. 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 in the King James version are clear examples.
A Soul can still exist without a body though it is considered dead. An example of such is the phantasm/ghost summoned by the Witch of Endor.
Kerwin………The reason the three distinct thing are mentioned in 1Ths 5:23 is because they being mention separately and then (WHOLLY) a SOUL which consists of a BODY and SPIRIT.! Ths 5:23 …> And the very God of peace (sanctify) you (WHOLLY) NOTICE HE IS SPEAKING OF THE COMPLETE BEING HERE> and your (WHOLE) SPIRIT and (Soul) (which consists of a Body and Spirit) and BODY may be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
GeneJesus disagrees with you…
And fear not them which “kill the body“, **BUT ARE NOT ABLE TO** “kill the soul“: but rather FEAR HIM which is able “to destroy both **SOUL AND BODY** in hell. Matt 10:28
Your logic says you can't have a soul without a body.
Jesus distinguishes between the two!
Blessings WJ
wjTHIS WILL BE A QUOTE THAT 'GENE' WILL OVERLOOK.
good quote WJ
I believe in predestination because my faith is based upon it as it is written:
Jeremiah 29:11(NIV) reads:
Quote For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
and
Luke 12:22-24(NIV) reads:
Quote Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
and
Acts 17:26(NIV) reads:
Quote From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live
I believe in free will because I am accountable for my own actions.
John 5:29(NIV) reads:
Quote and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
and
Romans 8:13(NIV) reads:
Quote For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 06 2010,05:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 05 2010,11:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 05 2010,16:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 05 2010,11:18) NIck………..You have added another element there, My bible says He took from dust and made a body and added Spirit into it and then man Body+Spirit (BECAME) a LIVING SOUL. Jesus did not share you dogmas when He said “do not fear him who can destory the body and do nothing more but fear him who can (destory) Both body and Soul in the (GRAVE)” . Now it appears the the soul can die (IN) the grave Show scripture support of what you say, “Breath of GOD making body soul and spirit”, like there are (three) distinct thing there. You have it all wrong a BODY PLUS SPIRIT = A SOUL.
Gene Balthrop,Be careful with your mathlike reasoning.
Spirit + Body creates a Living Soul but does not equal a living soul.
Scripture provides examples of the spirit and soul being seperate. 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 in the King James version are clear examples.
A Soul can still exist without a body though it is considered dead. An example of such is the phantasm/ghost summoned by the Witch of Endor.
Kerwin………The reason the three distinct thing are mentioned in 1Ths 5:23 is because they being mention separately and then (WHOLLY) a SOUL which consists of a BODY and SPIRIT.! Ths 5:23 …> And the very God of peace (sanctify) you (WHOLLY) NOTICE HE IS SPEAKING OF THE COMPLETE BEING HERE> and your (WHOLE) SPIRIT and (Soul) (which consists of a Body and Spirit) and BODY may be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
GeneJesus disagrees with you…
And fear not them which “kill the body“, **BUT ARE NOT ABLE TO** “kill the soul“: but rather FEAR HIM which is able “to destroy both **SOUL AND BODY** in hell. Matt 10:28
Your logic says you can't have a soul without a body.
Jesus distinguishes between the two!
Blessings WJ
WJ………The reason the Soul will die is because the FATHER (CAN) CREATED a NEW BODY and add the spirit back in to it. But as long as there is no body there can be no Soul and if you look up the word there you will find it is SPIRIT improperly rendered as SOUL. Check it out.peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
terraricca…………..Again for the hundredth time , there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL, that is a n OXYMORON. A Will is (NOT) a WILL If it is “FREE” of INFLUENCES> WHAT YOU PREACH IS A self SALVATION, BY ONE “FREE” SO-CALLED WILL. NOT SUCH THING EXISTS, NOT WITH MAN OR GOD. Look believe what you want to , that is you privilege, But in my opinion only one WILL will be done in the future and that Will be GOD'S WILL, rather your falsely called (FREE) Will likes it or not. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 07 2010,03:53) terraricca…………..Again for the hundredth time , there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL, that is a n OXYMORON. A Will is (NOT) a WILL If it is “FREE” of INFLUENCES> WHAT YOU PREACH IS A self SALVATION, BY ONE “FREE” SO-CALLED WILL. NOT SUCH THING EXISTS, NOT WITH MAN OR GOD. Look believe what you want to , that is you privilege, But in my opinion only one WILL will be done in the future and that Will be GOD'S WILL, rather your falsely called (FREE) Will likes it or not. IMO
Amen and I agree with that post brother Gene.Peace and love to you
AdamAdam……..There has been a lot of confusion caused by Trinitarian Influencing of the original texts and that is why we must as the Bereans did comparing what is written against the OLD ORIGINAL TESTAMENT, to try to filter out the errors in the texts. God's word can not contradict itself if truly understood. If we find a contradiction we are better of to go with the Old Testament and consider the New Testament meaning as the one altered, Because of TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES INFLUENCING . IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2010,03:14) Adam……..There has been a lot of confusion caused by Trinitarian Influencing of the original texts and that is why we must as the Bereans did comparing what is written against the OLD ORIGINAL TESTAMENT, to try to filter out the errors in the texts. God's word can not contradict itself if truly understood. If we find a contradiction we are better of to go with the Old Testament and consider the New Testament meaning as the one altered, Because of TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES INFLUENCING . IMO peace and love to you and yours………….gene
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2010,03:14) Adam……..There has been a lot of confusion caused by Trinitarian Influencing of the original texts and that is why we must as the Bereans did comparing what is written against the OLD ORIGINAL TESTAMENT, to try to filter out the errors in the texts. God's word can not contradict itself if truly understood. If we find a contradiction we are better of to go with the Old Testament and consider the New Testament meaning as the one altered, Because of TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES INFLUENCING . IMO
Gb,
A wise storeman can take good things old and new out of his storehouse.[mt]Your confusion with the NT is because you rate your additions higher than what is written.
Nick……….And what do we attribute you confusions to? And if you chose to try to imply scripture to support your false understandings Please have the decency to quote it right.
Mat 13:52…..> Then said he unto them. Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, which brings forth out of (HIS) treasure things (NEW) and OLD.
How do you confuse that with the New and OLD TESTAMENTS? Is this another NICK DOGMAS.
Hi Gene,
WJ is right, we got off topic there.
You said:
Quote Mikeboll………..> No i gave them (LIBERTY) to exercise their WILLS that are in them, Gene, I'm reading the words, but it still looks like you're saying, “I gave them LIBERTY (freedom) to execise their wills.”
Sounds like free wills to me.
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll………you are right in the sense that we can exercise our (Wills) Freely to a point. But my point is that those will we excercise freely are not in themselves “FREE” WILLS We are drive to WILL what we WILL and what drive us is our thoughts and were are held captive by them and Must be set FREE from the Captivated Thoughts. Christ can to set the (CAPTIVES) FREE. This captivity exists in our Minds and is what causes us to WILL. A Will means what you Want and What you Want is driven by what is in you, Our WILL must be put to death as Jesus' Will was, and ONLY GODS WILL is TO be done, But before that can happen GOD Must remove our WILL and replace it with HIS WILL. We need to say as Jesus said not my will bit they will be done. GODS Spirit (WORKS) in those who have HIS SPIRIT in them to bring this about. We are in a sense being changed from one CAPTIVITY to Another CAPTIVITY. This is what I believe it means by He led Captivity captive and gave Gifts to Men. He that is in you is greater then He that is in the WORLD, WE are in the World but He that is in Us is GREATER then what is in the world. “FOR GOD (WORKS) IN US (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE”> IMO, Think about it Mike.
peace and love…………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2010,14:04) Mikeboll………you are right in the sense that we can exercise our (Wills) Freely to a point. But my point is that those will we excercise freely are not in themselves “FREE” WILLS We are drive to WILL what we WILL and what drive us is our thoughts and were are held captive by them and Must be set FREE from the Captivated Thoughts. Christ can to set the (CAPTIVES) FREE. This captivity exists in our Minds and is what causes us to WILL. A Will means what you Want and What you Want is driven by what is in you, Our WILL must be put to death as Jesus' Will was, and ONLY GODS WILL is TO be done, But before that can happen GOD Must remove our WILL and replace it with HIS WILL. We need to say as Jesus said not my will bit they will be done. GODS Spirit (WORKS) in those who have HIS SPIRIT in them to bring this about. We are in a sense being changed from one CAPTIVITY to Another CAPTIVITY. This is what I believe it means by He led Captivity captive and gave Gifts to Men. He that is in you is greater then He that is in the WORLD, WE are in the World but He that is in Us is GREATER then what is in the world. “FOR GOD (WORKS) IN US (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE”> IMO, Think about it Mike. peace and love…………gene
Hi Gene,It's not Our “Will” but our 'ego' that must be put to death!
Ed J
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
This tells me there will be those that will not do the will of the Father, why? they chose to do their own will.
Georg
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2010,14:04) Our WILL must be put to death as Jesus' Will was, and ONLY GODS WILL is TO be done, But before that can happen GOD Must remove our WILL and replace it with HIS WILL. We need to say as Jesus said not my will bit they will be done.
Hi Gene,Trust me, I am thinking.
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just not seeing it the way you do. Jesus' will wasn't put to death in the sense that he no longer had free will. He just made his mind up to make it his will to do the Father's will. His choice.
And if God removes our will and replaces it with His, we are robots and nobody would ever sin. Our goal is to follow the teaching of Scripture and try to do the Father's will with our own free will.Our free will allows us to either do the Father's will or not. Doing it leads to everlasting life though, so that's a pretty good incentive.
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll……….I understand what you are saying and you are right to a point, we do have WILLS Separate from GOD'S But they as well as GOD'S Will is NOT (FREE) at all but are captivated Wills. “GOD DOES (ALL) THING AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL, His Will is not a free on like a lose canon, but a counseled Will . So do we, we do what we do by the thoughts in us and these thought came from past experiences and these control our wills. The same with GOD. To say a WILL is “FREE” is an OXYMORON , it simply would not be a WILL if it were “FREE”> We have Liberty to exercise our WILL to a point , but in the end ONLY (ONE WILL), WILL BE DONE and that is GOD'S Will and when that takes place God will be All and in All. How does becoming Perfect as GOD is, or Holy as He Is, makes us a Robot, if that were the case then may GOD make me his favored Robot then. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Gene,
Mike is absolutely right. Our Will is a free Will with which we can follow the teachings of Christ and gain Life, or not follow the teachings of Christ and die the final death.
God wants us to Worship him with our free Will because we recognise his complete Sovereignty.
All the things that are occuring until the end of time will attest to the fact that God's Will is the Only Will that is Truth and Righteousness and our Will will be in tune with His.
Remember that it was because Satan challenged God's right to singular Worship and rulership that lead to the question if whether man could exist without God, rule himself by his own Will.
I think that history and the state if the world today ckearly show that mankind cannot rule himself, as God knew, but had to allow Satan to try.
After the end there can be no challenge to God as the matrix will contain a'' combinations and permutations of events and their consequences (of coursem this wonlt happen but it will be there for eternity as a reminder…)
There has been so much debate around 'free and influenced Will'. What is the problem?
One problem is that the poster does not define what 'they' mean by 'Free' ir 'Influenced' Will, so everyone posts their own version of what they think…ha ha…and then say that the other oersin is wrong…!WILL is the ability to decide to carry out an action.
We all have 'free will' as human beings because Gid made us that way, in his image. But all Wills, exceot God's, is always 'Influenced' by past, current and predictable future events. Only God has all past, present and future knowledge to make decisions that are not influenced. God makes a decision and it is final.
We make decisions but then changed, amend, adapt, adjust according to the outcome of a previous event. Some are strongly influenced, some are forced, some are spontaneous abd some are irresponsible but the final 'action' is ours and no one can say 'I didn't want to do it, he MADE me do it'. Of course, the consequence of not doing something you are 'forced Willed' to do could mean anything from loss of 'a pleasure opportunity' to serious punishment or even death but is it not written:”Do not be afraid of them that can kill the soul but not the Spirit. Be fearful of Him that can destroy both soul and Spirit[God Almighty]”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 15 2010,04:10) We have Liberty to exercise our WILL to a point , but in the end ONLY (ONE WILL), WILL BE DONE and that is GOD'S Will and when that takes place God will be All and in All.
Hi Gene,We have liberty to exercise our will, not only to a point, but to the point of everlasting destruction. God's will was to have the Israelites acknowledge His power to save them. But we know they rebelled, because their will was not in tune with His. They were stiff-necked stubborn people, but God did not force His will on them and magically make them love and obey Him. They were allowed to follow their own wills to the point of not being able to enter the promised land.
It is the same with us. God is pleased when we adjust our wills to be inline with His. But we don't have to. We can follow our own wills into eternal destruction if we choose to. You are right that in the end, one will only will be done. But up until then (and even in the new system – I assume) we will have the choice to live according to God's will or not.
peace and love,
mike
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