- This topic has 3,825 replies, 73 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
GENE
I USE 10 TRANSLATION IN TWO LANGUAGES AND Psalm 68 ;18 LOOKS THE SAME TO ME ,MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECKED YOUR VERSION
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2010,16:22) THE INFLUENCES ON US ARE NOT THE ONES WHO MAKE THE DECISIONS IT IS OUR CHOICE BY OUR FREEWILL TO PICK AND LET THAT INFLUENCE GOOD OR BAD TO TAKE CONTROL OF US,SO IT IS
OUR CHOICE TO SERVE GOD OR THE DEVIL.AMEN
Terraricca………YOU WILL ALWAY CHOSE WHAT (INFLUENCES) YOU THE MOST, i DON'T HOW MUCH YOU DENY IT. Your simply deceiving yourself to even think that way. It what you sy is right we would Have (NO) need for a savior we simply could save ourselves by our own “FREE”WILLS. Pure Garbage. You have yet to produce (ONE) Scripture that states MAN HAS A “FREE” WILL (IN) (IN) (IN) (IN) (IN) HIM.
It seem you do not truly trust in GOD as the SAVIOR HIMSELF of ALL MEN> YOUR arguments are with scripture and GOD'S Words not me. YOUR PRIDE has decieved YOU IMO>terraricca……….You will join ED J, because that is what most influences you in your decision process, You could not chose no differencly unless the truth would set you ” FREE” of that false thinking. You are obsessed with the Idea, you think YOUR WILL is truly FREE , when in fact it is far from FREE , but a captivated WILL. Your are held captive by your thoughts the same as we all ARE and even GOD is Held captive by HIS Thoughts, No one can exist out side of His or Her Thoughts, a “FREE” WILL is an Oxymoron. A WILL can NOT BE A WILL and BE FREE of ITSELF, Like i said GOD grants us Liberty to exercise our captivated WILL, WILL which are FAR from FREE UNLESS GOD set YOU FREE of (YOUR) Will and Replaces it with the Captivity of HIS WILL, you will alway chose what you have in the Past chosen, “Train up a child in the way He should go and when he is old He will not depart from it. Why (THINK ABOUT IT)>
peace and love……………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,11:32) G,
It is important to you to deny any choice to men so that you can support your dogmas of determinism and universalism.
NIck………Where and when have i denied we make choices, I never said that, what i said was those choices were (NOT) the Product of a “FREE” WILL. Many say we then are not Held accountably for our actions , Why are we not then held accountable for our action, we acquired out Will from the counsel of the world (NOT) GOD, so GOD certainly holds us as well as the World accountable for it actions. Our will are Not free they are driven by lusts of the eyes and the flesh and the pride of life that is working in us causing us to both will and do those things, But if we have been set (FREE) of those things and been given the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD the (THAT) Spirit takes over , It both accuses us and defends Us, and this is what now takes over our will, It is GOD WILL Working IN US How have it, we are putting OUR WILL to DEATH by that process. Ther exists no such thing as a “WILL” that is “FREE” of influence a FREE WILL is an OXYMORON. “FOR HE (GOD) WORKS (IN) US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE. AND AGAIN, THAT (GOD) MAN BE (IN) ALL AND (THROUGH) (ALL), ONE WILL, NOT MANS WILL AT WORK.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2010,04:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2010,16:22) THE INFLUENCES ON US ARE NOT THE ONES WHO MAKE THE DECISIONS IT IS OUR CHOICE BY OUR FREEWILL TO PICK AND LET THAT INFLUENCE GOOD OR BAD TO TAKE CONTROL OF US,SO IT IS
OUR CHOICE TO SERVE GOD OR THE DEVIL.AMEN
Terraricca………YOU WILL ALWAY CHOSE WHAT (INFLUENCES) YOU THE MOST, i DON'T HOW MUCH YOU DENY IT. Your simply deceiving yourself to even think that way. It what you sy is right we would Have (NO) need for a savior we simply could save ourselves by our own “FREE”WILLS. Pure Garbage. You have yet to produce (ONE) Scripture that states MAN HAS A “FREE” WILL (IN) (IN) (IN) (IN) (IN) HIM.
It seem you do not truly trust in GOD as the SAVIOR HIMSELF of ALL MEN> YOUR arguments are with scripture and GOD'S Words not me. YOUR PRIDE has decieved YOU IMO>
Lev:22:18: Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel,
and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel,
or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows,
and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;Lev:22:21: And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow,
or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.Lev:22:23: Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts,
that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.Lev:23:38: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts,
and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.Num:15:3: And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow,
or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:Num:29:39: These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows,
and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings,
and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.Deut:12:6: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices,
and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows,
and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:Deut:12:17: Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn,
or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock,
nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:Deut:16:10: And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God
with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give
unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:Deut:23:23: That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform;
even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.2Chron:31:14: And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east,
was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.Ezra:1:4: And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth,
let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods,
and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.Ezra:3:5: And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons,
and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated,
and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.Ezra:7:13: I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites,
in my realm, which are minded of THEIR OWN FREEWILL to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.Ezra:7:16: And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon,
with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:Ezra:8:28: And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also;
and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.Ps:119:108: Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth,
O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2010,06:01) terraricca……….You will join ED J, because that is what most influences you in your decision process, You could not chose no differencly unless the truth would set you ” FREE” of that false thinking. You are obsessed with the Idea, you think YOUR WILL is truly FREE , when in fact it is far from FREE , but a captivated WILL. Your are held captive by your thoughts the same as we all ARE and even GOD is Held captive by HIS Thoughts, No one can exist out side of His or Her Thoughts, a “FREE” WILL is an Oxymoron. A WILL can NOT BE A WILL and BE FREE of ITSELF, Like i said GOD grants us Liberty to exercise our captivated WILL, WILL which are FAR from FREE UNLESS GOD set YOU FREE of (YOUR) Will and Replaces it with the Captivity of HIS WILL, you will alway chose what you have in the Past chosen, “Train up a child in the way He should go and when he is old He will not depart from it. Why (THINK ABOUT IT)> peace and love……………….gene
John 8:32: And ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you free.Heb. 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,ED J……….1 Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we (deceive) ourselves and the (truth) is (not) in Us.
Rom 7:18…..> “For i know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells (NO) good thing: (why) Because to will is present with me: but how to perform that which is good I find NOT .19..> For the good that (I) would (I) do (NOT): but the evil which (I) would (NOT) that (I) do.
Rom 7:23 ….> But I see another law in my members, waring against the law of (MY) Mind, and bringing me into (CAPTIVITY) to the law of sin which is in my flesh.
Paul show He is held captive by the WILL of HIS FLESH . This captivity is the influence of HIS FLESH causing Him to WILL to SIN working through HIS Flesh. As long as we are in these bodies the captivated WILL of the Flesh will war against the WILL of GOD in OUR MINDS, But either way NO WILL is a “FREE” WILL in it self.
Again “FREE” WILL is an OXYMORON , the question is WHOSE WILL OURS OR GOD”S, BUT neither are “FREE” WILLS. IMO
GENE
again and again you only quote the little pieces out of what Paul says ,so people would not understand what Paul really talks about,
you acting and pick this out of your freewill because you know what you doing is not the truth,you are twisting the meaning of the word of God.determinism means =twisting the scriptures and follow the doctrines of men ,they are slaves of sin but they preach freedom out of influences.and determinism.
ED J……….Not one scripture you have posted Shows that a Man Has a “FREE” WILL (IN) HIM, What you have shown is that GOD give us (FREEDOM) TO EXERCISE THOSE INFLUENCED WILLS. Were not talking about our (FREEDOM) to use our captivated WILLS (freely). You still don not get the picture do you? Go and look up the Word in a concordance used in what you quote and your will find it means (SPONTANEOUS) FROM THE SELF. It has nothing to do with a “FREE” WILL existing in a PERSON At all.
ED J this is how People get mixed up, by taking a word like freewill or (spontaneous)(offering) and trying to force the text to mean what it is not saying.
YOU OR TERRARICCA HAVE NOT PRODUCED (ONE) SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS WE HAVE A WILL THAT IS (FREE) OF ANY INFLUENCES (IN) US.
FORCING THE TEXT AS TRINITARIANS AND PREEXISTENCES DO DOES NOT ACCOMPLISH TRUTH OF GOD.Remember the quest is (NOT) do we have (FREEDOM) to (DO or WILLS) the question is are the WILLS “FREE” or captivated WILL.
gene
Jesus teaches us not to look at our interest only but to the interest of others ,that is what love your brother ,means,
so there is lot of influences out there and they not apply to your own benefit most of the time it is the greed in us (devil),but it should be the truth of God.that should prevail this is why God give us freewill ,you pick and God watches were you going.
gene
you did not produce a scripture a full scripture that is ,your bit and pieces you produce are not the understanding of that scripture.
you braking the scriptures.show us that your way of thinking is reflected since the beginning of the bible ,
and one by one show how God and the prophets and then Jesus teaches your view to his apostles,so that we may learn the truth of God.
Terraricca……….The doctrine of Men believe they have a “FREE WILL” as you do. Both you and they are wrong. Man believe they are a GOD unto themselves and therefore have a “FREE WILL” to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong as you do. That is exactly what ADAM and EVE Wanted a (FREE WILL) to decide for themselves What is GOOD and EVIL. All who come from that view point are still following their Parents (Adam and Eve) and are of the world and think as the world thinks. But those truly of GOD know better.
The scriptures i quoted are actually there and your need to deal with them instead of Just mouthing off that I take some Here and There to support what i and saying and even if i do , they still back up what i am saying , while those you produce say nothing about a man Having a (“FREE WILL” (IN) HIM). DO THEY . You are summarizing that from scriptures thinking your so-called Free Will Choices is what is saving you. As I have said before (PRIDE) is what is behind all FREE WILL Thinking. IMO
Terraricca………….I have produced many scriptures , it's your lack of understand that is the problem here not the scriptures i have produces. As i have said (PRIDE) is behind all so-called “FREE” Will thinking , it goes all the way back to ADAM and EVE who wanted to be FREE of GOD'S WILL and Have their own So -called “FREE WILLS”, This thinking is of Man and NOT of GOD or HIS WORD> Man's WILL is in a state of captivity and Must be set FREE and Transfered unto the WILL of GOD. God does not ask our Permission to DO HIS WILL in OUR lives > Rather you like it or not, “For GOD DOES (ALL) THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL”. My hope is that I with His help can put MY WILL TO DEATH, and His WILL Be done in me, as Jesus with the power of GOD Put His WILL to death unto perfect obedience to GOD the FATHERS WILL.
Terraricca………..It is fine with me if you are unable to understand this, It is sad but it really is your problem that you must deal with. Pride say I am “FREE” to DO what ever (I) WILL, and (I) will Choose for MYSELF , what is right for me or what is wrong for me. Adam and Eve felt the same way. IMO
Terraricca………..I have produce many many many Scriptures, You just simply are unable to understand them, I am glad a few can though, even if most of you so-called “FREE WILLER'S) CAN'T.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2010,11:20) Terraricca………..I have produce many many many Scriptures, You just simply are unable to understand them, I am glad a few can though, even if most of you so-called “FREE WILLER'S) CAN'T.
genei am right you can not produce one scripture ,i only ask you ONE not two,
to show support for your doctrine of “influence wills-and determinism.
all your previous scriptures you showed were taken out of thier context,
so let only take one ,so to show all that you are true,
are you true.?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2010,05:08) Terraricca……….The doctrine of Men believe they have a “FREE WILL” as you do. Both you and they are wrong. Man believe they are a GOD unto themselves and therefore have a “FREE WILL” to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong as you do. That is exactly what ADAM and EVE Wanted a (FREE WILL) to decide for themselves What is GOOD and EVIL. All who come from that view point are still following their Parents (Adam and Eve) and are of the world and think as the world thinks. But those truly of GOD know better. The scriptures i quoted are actually there and your need to deal with them instead of Just mouthing off that I take some Here and There to support what i and saying and even if i do , they still back up what i am saying , while those you produce say nothing about a man Having a (“FREE WILL” (IN) HIM). DO THEY . You are summarizing that from scriptures thinking your so-called Free Will Choices is what is saving you. As I have said before (PRIDE) is what is behind all FREE WILL Thinking. IMO
geneyou see you have no scriptures to support your believe in INFLUENCE WILLS AND DETERMINISM.
JUST SUPPLY ONE SCRIPTURE NOT MUCH, ONE'
IF YOU CAN NOT SUPPLY ONE ,THEN IT IS BY FREEWILL THAT MEN CHOSE TO SERVE GOD AS MENTION IN MANY,MANY,MANY SCRIPTURES ,SUPPLIED BY ME AND OTHERS TO YOU,AND CAN STILL DO IT .
LET SEE YOURS ONE ;SCRIPTURE
Terraricca…………If our So-called Free WILLs Exist then why would Paul say < there is (NO) good thing in my flesh, for to WILL is Present in Me. that is just one of many posted your just not able to comperhend it, lets be honst here. Here another one (if our (FREE WILL) are so important in the salvation process. why does it say God has to (work) in Us (BOTH) to WILL and do of HIS good Pleasure. But let me quote the completer scripture lest you accuse me of Partial quoting,
Phi 2:13…..> FOR IT IS GOD WHICH (WORKS) (IN) YOU (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND TO DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.
Now i coud go and requote all the rest of the many scriptures i have already , but so you don't get confused lets Just talk about this (ONE) Scripture for a while.
Now why would God have to (WORK) in US if we by Our own “FREE WILL” can Make up our own MINDS by our OWN “FREE” Choices. This aonle should make you think ther are (OTHER) INFLUENCING of OUR (WILLS) Taking PLACE.
WE Have not even begin to address the Issue of we are the CLAY and GOD is the POTTER, and (CAN) Make from the same Lump a vessel of HONOR or a VESSEL of Dishonor, You remind of those that say “WELL WHY DOE HE (GOD) FIND FAULT THEN SEE HE DOES WHAT SOEVER HE WILLS TO WITH US. PAULS ANSWER WAS YEA “BUT WHO ARE YOU O MAN THE REPLIET UNTO GOD, SHALL THE THING CREATED SAY UNTO HIM THE CREATED IT WHY HAVE YOU MADE ME THUS.
HAS NOT THE POTTER (POWER) OVER THE CLAY TO MAKE IT THE WAY HE WANTS TO. But you and the rest of the so-called (Free Willer's) would say, (NO) because we have a “FREE” Will, it is our “FREE Choice” to decide, Pure garbage teaching, Man Hates that God is in (FULL) control, just like you and the rest of the “FREE WILLER'S” DO. The Source is PRIDE which is the mother of rebellion thsame thing that caused the fall of ADAM and EVE. As long as a Man thinks he Is his (OWN) Salvation by HIS OWN FREE WILLS< he remains alone and Has NOT Died and therefore he abides alone. Jesus said UNLESS a Seed falls to the Ground and dies it remains (ALONE) but if It dies (to it self) it will come to life, All who hold on the thier falsely called (Free Will) have (NOT) dies unto themselves and abide alone. IMO
terraricca………… pHI 2:13….>”FOR IT IS GOD THE (WORKS) IN YOU (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.”
NOW CONTARY TO YOU LYING AND SAY I PRODUCE (NO) SCRIPTURE TO SHOW WE HAVE (NO) SUCH THING AS A 'FREE” WILL EVEN THOUGH NOT ONE PLACE IN SCRITURE SAY WE (HAVE “FREE”WILLS IN US).
Now If it is OUR OWN so-called “FREE” WILLS that must determine our Choices , THEN WHY WOULD GOD HAVE TO (WORK) IN US BOTHE TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE. If GOD did that then He is controlling our WILL and we are not “FREE” Willed at all. GET IT, or is that to hard for you to UNDERSTAND. mOUTHING OFF ACCUSATIONS ONLY SHOWS YOU IGNORANCE> IMO
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
