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Well thanks Nick for showing me this… I guess this just proves why we shouldnt read the bible huh?
God playing games with us all? I will harden Pharoahs heart
Ahhhhh well then if that is the case then Id be better off enjoying life the way I live it since I most probably am not one of the Chosen ones lol Therefore Im wasting my time stressing over the bible for nothing.
right??
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 22 2007,22:09) Well thanks Nick for showing me this… I guess this just proves why we shouldnt read the bible huh? God playing games with us all? I will harden Pharoahs heart
Ahhhhh well then if that is the case then Id be better off enjoying life the way I live it since I most probably am not one of the Chosen ones lol Therefore Im wasting my time stressing over the bible for nothing.
right??
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,I don't know how much of that was tongue in cheek, but I have to tell you.
For a long time I have been going to church, sitting in the pew and listening to the pastor. I go home after church feeling good about the sermon and my limited knowledge of scriptures.
Preachers only tell you certain things that are in the bible. Things that help them to grow the church, sometimes for for their own glory.Since I have truly started to study the scriptures over this last six months or so, I seem to be less at peace within myself about everything in scriptures, than I was when I sat ignorantly in church. Fat and happy with what I heard one day a week.
Tim
No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws him. God knows the heart. All are called but few are chosen.
If you are not ready to accept Jesus then the Father doesn't draw you. Sadly some try to come to Christ because of peer pressure which ends up making Christianty look bad, because the seed is not deeply rooted.Hi Tim
Yup youre right. I was annoyed and yeah like you “less” at peace.
I remember that scripture standing out to me too in regards to the pharoah but didnt think anything of it until now.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 22 2007,22:09) Well thanks Nick for showing me this… I guess this just proves why we shouldnt read the bible huh? God playing games with us all? I will harden Pharoahs heart
Ahhhhh well then if that is the case then Id be better off enjoying life the way I live it since I most probably am not one of the Chosen ones lol Therefore Im wasting my time stressing over the bible for nothing.
right??
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi P,
Seek and you will find. To seek grace you must know inablity. We are urged to ensure our election.Heb 4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 23 2007,23:36) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 22 2007,22:09) Well thanks Nick for showing me this… I guess this just proves why we shouldnt read the bible huh? God playing games with us all? I will harden Pharoahs heart
Ahhhhh well then if that is the case then Id be better off enjoying life the way I live it since I most probably am not one of the Chosen ones lol Therefore Im wasting my time stressing over the bible for nothing.
right??
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,I don't know how much of that was tongue in cheek, but I have to tell you.
For a long time I have been going to church, sitting in the pew and listening to the pastor. I go home after church feeling good about the sermon and my limited knowledge of scriptures.
Preachers only tell you certain things that are in the bible. Things that help them to grow the church, sometimes for for their own glory.Since I have truly started to study the scriptures over this last six months or so, I seem to be less at peace within myself about everything in scriptures, than I was when I sat ignorantly in church. Fat and happy with what I heard one day a week.
Tim
God gaves man an ability to reason. He gave us a conscience so that we may no right from wrong and evaluate fairness and justice. Or so I thought? Why would God give me a conscience that is so different from His own?I recently read about a Holocaust survivor who had her baby taken from her and watched as the soldier killed it with his bare hands (I apologize for the morbid imagery but I feel the argument is greatly strenghthened). Making no mention of the horrible things inflicted on herself she noted that what little faith she had was now shattered. So, that is her lot in life? That is God's will? God made her so she could suffer unimaginable pain and also made her entirely incapable of finding even a shred of comfort from believing in Him? You will suffer but I won't allow you to seek me and believe and find peace?
Someone, in a previous post, noted that we cannot apply our concept of equality and justice to God's will. We can't understand what real Godly justice is. I guess not. For some reason my God-given conscience makes me sick thinking about the suffering some people endure with no means of rescue. If predestination is a truth then I will accept that God is just (by his perfect standards) and that God is Holy but I will not accept that God is love. Can someone who subscribes to this doctrine explain to me where love comes into play? I understand that He loves those He has chosen but what of the others?
Please forgive my harsh tone but in discussing predestination and the God-given order to kill babies in the OT I find it increasingly hard to love God with all my heart and soul. I don't understand how my conscience with the Holy Spirit bearing witness would NEVER let me kill a newborn baby but God allowed it at one point. Please help me understand these things and tell me where love fits in.
Quote (Jefe Gordo @ June 08 2007,12:07) Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 23 2007,23:36) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 22 2007,22:09) Well thanks Nick for showing me this… I guess this just proves why we shouldnt read the bible huh? God playing games with us all? I will harden Pharoahs heart
Ahhhhh well then if that is the case then Id be better off enjoying life the way I live it since I most probably am not one of the Chosen ones lol Therefore Im wasting my time stressing over the bible for nothing.
right??
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,I don't know how much of that was tongue in cheek, but I have to tell you.
For a long time I have been going to church, sitting in the pew and listening to the pastor. I go home after church feeling good about the sermon and my limited knowledge of scriptures.
Preachers only tell you certain things that are in the bible. Things that help them to grow the church, sometimes for for their own glory.Since I have truly started to study the scriptures over this last six months or so, I seem to be less at peace within myself about everything in scriptures, than I was when I sat ignorantly in church. Fat and happy with what I heard one day a week.
Tim
God gaves man an ability to reason. He gave us a conscience so that we may no right from wrong and evaluate fairness and justice. Or so I thought? Why would God give me a conscience that is so different from His own?I recently read about a Holocaust survivor who had her baby taken from her and watched as the soldier killed it with his bare hands (I apologize for the morbid imagery but I feel the argument is greatly strenghthened). Making no mention of the horrible things inflicted on herself she noted that what little faith she had was now shattered. So, that is her lot in life? That is God's will? God made her so she could suffer unimaginable pain and also made her entirely incapable of finding even a shred of comfort from believing in Him? You will suffer but I won't allow you to seek me and believe and find peace?
Someone, in a previous post, noted that we cannot apply our concept of equality and justice to God's will. We can't understand what real Godly justice is. I guess not. For some reason my God-given conscience makes me sick thinking about the suffering some people endure with no means of rescue. If predestination is a truth then I will accept that God is just (by his perfect standards) and that God is Holy but I will not accept that God is love. Can someone who subscribes to this doctrine explain to me where love comes into play? I understand that He loves those He has chosen but what of the others?
Please forgive my harsh tone but in discussing predestination and the God-given order to kill babies in the OT I find it increasingly hard to love God with all my heart and soul. I don't understand how my conscience with the Holy Spirit bearing witness would NEVER let me kill a newborn baby but God allowed it at one point. Please help me understand these things and tell me where love fits in.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Why does God allow suffering and death. This is the way of Satan we are still in Satan's system of things.
God allows Satan to have his way to show just how bad his way is. There are two thirds of the angels watching Satan and his system of things to see if Satan's way (as he suggest) is indeed better.
Satan is the god of this world (2Cor. 4:4) the suffering won't stop until this age ends.
The promise is that things are going to get worse!
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Does God know what He is doing, you bet!
Hi Jefe Gordo:
I see that you are still struggling with this, and I tried to help you understand with a prior post.
You say:
I understand that He loves those He has chosen but what of the others?
1Jo 4:10
Herein * * is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.And God, gives man the freedom to choose whether or not they want to be reconciled to God. What ever God allows in this world, it is with the purpose of saving those who will be saved from the consequence of sin. Also, there is a day of judgment coming for those who have not already been judged.
By predestination I understand is meant that God has forseen from the beginning who will be saved and who will not, but that doesn't mean that every individual did not have the opportunity to be saved. They just rejected God's free gift.
John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.I hope this helps.
God Bless
942767,
Thank you for your continued support. It is appreciated. Your reply regarding the Amalekites was excellent and very encouraging. It has brought me a good measure of peace. My post in this thread was more regarding Predestination. If predestination was true that would make the Amalekite issue even more hard to swallow. The John 6:64 verse you quoted was wonderful. I had not read that one before. I apologize if my tone was too negative. I just feel predestination contradicts all of God's claims that He is all-loving.I've been meaning to respond to your other posts but haven't had a great deal of time. Thank you again for your patience and understanding.
God Bless
Here is something that I've pondered before……….I do believe in a predestination, of sorts, the Bible does speak of this. God used Pharaoh. It was his good purpose that made Pharaoh's heart cold. Does this mean that God will not save Pharaoh in the end? Has anyone dared to wonder if it was God's purpose to use such a terrible man as Hitler? Will he be saved during judgement because he was “predestined” to serve God in a certain capacity?
Jesus is our role model. Did Jesus have “spiritual free will”? Could Jesus have bagged it all, and instead of going to the cross – take a wife, move out of Nazareth and into the subburbs where they settled down and had some kids? Curious question. I tend to believe he could have……that's what makes his sacrifice so meaningful to me.
Rev 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Jesus was also slain “before the foundations of the world”….but we know that he was crucified during his lifetime. Figure of speach? Other? Ponder, ponder….
Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 24 2007,00:42) No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws him. God knows the heart. All are called but few are chosen.
If you are not ready to accept Jesus then the Father doesn't draw you. Sadly some try to come to Christ because of peer pressure which ends up making Christianty look bad, because the seed is not deeply rooted.Quote All are called but few are chosen. Incorrect. Many are called and few are chosen.
Quote (sscott @ June 09 2007,12:56) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 24 2007,00:42) No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws him. God knows the heart. All are called but few are chosen.
If you are not ready to accept Jesus then the Father doesn't draw you. Sadly some try to come to Christ because of peer pressure which ends up making Christianty look bad, because the seed is not deeply rooted.Quote All are called but few are chosen. Incorrect. Many are called and few are chosen.
OK Many
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