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Edj…….So on the one hand you say “you” “chose” by your “own Will that is “free” “freewill”, to correct yourself, then out of the other side of your mouth you say we do this with God’s “help”, so, in what way does God “help us” chose? Because if our so-called “freewill” is so “important to God, why would he even want to help us in the first place? Much less to “work’ in us “both” to “WILL” and do of “his” good pleasure.” If God is at work ‘in” us, “causing us to do things, where does a “freewill” or “Will”, that is “free” figure in At?
Your idea of asking questions to correct your view, hasen’t seemed to work for you, or Perclaimer it appears, nor did that vedio you posted either, seem to help you out any either.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Proclaimer, I have no doubt that Mike will eventually come to see that the earth is round, and change his mind about it, but as far a scripture goes he is proberly one of the sharpest scripturally accurate people we have ever had on here. IMO. I agree with a lot of what he has said, not everything, but a lot of it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Proclaimer,
I have no doubt that Mike will eventually come to see
that the earth is round, and change his mind about itBut you cannot come to see you have a “FreeWill”
if you do not have a FreeWill like everyone else has.I guess everyone has one but you, you are just a bot.
And if you are a bot, then why should we engage you?
You cannot decide anything beyond your programming.but as far a scripture goes he is proberly one of the sharpest scripturally accurate people we have ever had on here. IMO. I agree with a lot of what he has said, not everything, but a lot of it.
Hi Gene,
Mike says Jesus was a created hyper-being,
which God used to Create all things.
Do you believe that as well?If not, why not? If Mike is so scripturally accurate?
Edj……your biggest problem is, you seem unable to read what is posted “accurately,” I said I agree with “a lot” of what he says scripturelly, I did not say “all” of what he says, now did ?, But then again, minds not driven by the Holy Spirit of God, work that way, so I have come to expect nothingless from minds not driven by the “spirit of truth” “in” them.
Did you go back and look at the video you posted yet. They seem to disagree a lot with what you are saying about “freewills”,
A will that is “free” is a sombe, walking around not knowin anything for sure, unpredictable, unstable, souls wondering endlessly. But thank be to God there exist no such thing as a “will” that is “free”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Tell me Gene.
Did you choose to make your above post or were you forced to do so by the laws of the universe?
Lol.
Gene, do you believe the earth is flat?
If yes, then you have chosen to believe that despite the evidence.
If no, you have chosen to believe to trust the science and other indirect evidence like satellites, Antarctic tours, etc.
Either way, you made a choice given the two different bodies of thought.
Simple to understand.
You have free will.
But if you don’t, then I guess it is possible that you are a robot of some kind unlike myself who is made in the image of God and chooses to follow God everyday albeit sometimes failing at that. I can speak for myself, but if you insist you are a robot, then okay, you are a robot. Whatever.
Hi Ed J,
Let me add to what Gene has been saying as it is spot on, and he has given clear scriptural support.
You posted “Happy Robot Day!”
Neither Gene or I believe that by there being no such thing as having a “free” will, that would then make us robots. NOT AT ALL!
I believe there is some confusion here and I have mentioned it before.
We are not saying that a person is not “free” to make choices.
People have freedoms to make choices/decisions.
I hope that we can make the distinction between the difference between freedom of choice verses freedom of will, as they are not the same, and you will really think about what I am saying below.
You have freedoms to make choices but those choices are made from your will, and your will is a product that has been under subjection since the day you were conceived.
Why Gene quoted,
“the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is “not subject” to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh “cannot” please God.”
Without God and the fruits of His Spirit upon us we’d be nothing more than animals roaming around only seeking to serve our flesh.
Let me start with just one simple example of your will being under subjection.
By NATURE humans are born with a variety of different temperaments, where a human’s given temperament, that they have been subjected to by nature, directly impacts their will and thus directly affects their choices/behaviors.
A fruit of God’s Spirit is self control, another is patience. My youngest by nature was given of those fruits to a much greater extent to that of my oldest child. Likewise I was born with more of that nature than my husband, our parents have their stories of when we were children.
If my youngest child or I as a child, had our ice cream cone get knocked to the floor by being bumped by the family dog, we would not throw a temper tantrum, scream and cry and then hit the dog out of anger, which is what my husband as a child or my oldest daughter when she was a young child would have most certainly done.
Natural temperaments affect your will, your will is subjected to your natural temperament, THUS YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE.
On the upside bad temperaments can be influenced/trained and changed, which then your will is now subjected to that change.
Edj…..Remember we are talking about the “will” itself, not about our “freedom” to exercise it. That’s where you and Proclaimer are constantly getting trip up. The video you posted should have proven that to you two.
The term “freewill” is an OXYMORON, there is no “Will”, in existence that is “itself” free. The very word “will” implys something driven, and therefore “caused”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Jodi, Gene, what do you make of this verse?:
“Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth
must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.” (Psalms 32:9)EDJ…… Yes, SOMETHING YOU NEED TO REALLY THINK ABOUT, here’s another one you should consider also, “why behold the splinter in your brothers eye and not behold the beam in your own eye”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Ooh look, I just used my free will to make this post. I wasn’t following a program or script. I freely chose to do this.
Use your free will to prove me wrong.
He answers the question of what “FreeWill” is:
(And if we know what “FreeWill” is, then we know it exists)
to determine our intentions is “FreeWill”
and we alone determine our intentions…Gene could argue our decisions are based on predetermined conditions.
But their are many occasions that our decisions go beyond conditions……and that is “Free Will” !
Edj……Wrong before you ever post anything you are already “predesposed” to, there is simply no such thing as a “will” that is “free” , it obvisely would not be a “Will ” if it were free, “itself”, wills are formed by what is ““influencing ” our minds the most.
Remember I am not say we don’t have “freedom” to exercise those influenced will”s held captive by the thoughts of our mind.
The word “freewill”, is a “OXYMORON ” , no such thing exists.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
What I don’t understand about you people is that you can’t even see, that if freewill were true , God could not make any prediction about anyone, because he couldn’t know the out come, if it’s all about a persons “freewills”. That simply common sense 101.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Nice to see you exercising your free will gene and making a post here. If you couldn’t freely choose to do so, then you are trying to convince me that you are a dog being compelled by instinct or the forces of nature to do things. But as a human you have a higher thought where you can reason, resist that which the flesh craves, and even deny eating food when hungry if you want to lose weight. You are free to choose.
But if you want to make the case that you are tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind, then fine. Some people are like that. But even then, you are free to grow up and make sensible and good decisions if you choose to do so.
No excuses.
God could not make any prediction about anyone, because he couldn’t know the out come, if it’s all about a persons “freewills”. That simply common sense 101.
Thank you for clarifying. This is from your own spirit. It explains why you argue this way. Here are some points to consider.
- God is not subject to time. If he was, then he is not God. The God who made time would be higher than him.
- Even our own scientists will tell you that time is subject to the viewer. We all have different NOW moments depending on your location and speed. Obviously God can see all time. This changes nothing about our choices. The fastest thing we know of is the speed of light. That is the only constant that we know of as far as a law or dimension goes. Newton thought time, Einstein proved that assumption wrong.
- If God didn’t see all time, then he is merely making predictions albeit he has the best data. But I remember a football team that had 1-5000 odds on winning the Premier League and they did it. Punters made a lot of money out of that. If you are interested, YouTube ‘Leicester City Premier League story’. So by extension, when there is / was war in Heaven, the Devil and his angels could prevail because there is always the chance, as you must assume. If he doesn’t see all time, then he doesn’t know everything. Remember, a day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years as a day.
As you can see, your free will argument springs from your own mind and because your spirit is no match for Gods’ spirit, it is obvious that you have imposed your own restrictions on what God can and can’t do. In short, you have demoted God just as you regularly demote the Son of God.
To put it bluntly, it might be time to keep your mouth shut for a while and your eyes and ears open. I think some learning would be in order before going out there and teaching people. Unqualified teachers only imposes a harsher judgement on themselves, so this is good advice. Remember, no lie comes from God. All lies have a father.
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