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Hi Berean,
That’s NOT what the scripture says. It does not say, Before Abraham was I am from eternity, it says I AM.
Jesus said, “I AM the resurrection and the LIFE”
Did Abraham die knowing of God’s covenant, that God would through his seed bring all nations to be blessed? YES
Just prior to that verse did Jesus speak of Abraham seeing Jesus’s day (his own seed) and rejoice? YES
What was he rejoicing over Berean? He was rejoicing over his own seed bringing forth eternal life.
Did God promise eternal life before the world began? YES
Did God promise also that such a purpose would be executed by a man? YES
Before Abraham existed did God’s word concerning the he who is the I AM the resurrection and the Life exist? YES
Abraham is dead, who came BEFORE him in the resurrection? Jesus does, Jesus who is I AM the resurrection and the life.
What is given also in John 8, “2 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I AM the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people…25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Berean, apply scripture with scripture bro! Isaiah 11, 42, 45, 46,61, you have a son of Jesse, who is a son of Abraham, who God anoints with His Spirit to deliver captives out of darkness, he is raised up in righteousness where God directs all his ways for to fulfill God’s covenant, for to be the prophet raised up among his brethren speaking God’s word. HE IS THE MAN who God spoke of from the beginning who would execute God’s purpose, His covenant. Without this man God would not have created ALL things, of which in 45 and 46 of Isaiah, it is NOT the one who is raised up in righteousness for to be a light for both Israel and Gentiles, is he who created heaven, earth, and man, IT IS the God who raises him up in righteousness to be for a light who is He who is said to have created heaven and earth ALONE by himself.
Berean, you and others on this forum are refusing to put simple clear scriptures together with other passages. You make Jesus into the likes of a pagan god.
Ego eimi
“I am”, “I exist”, is the first person singular present active indicative of the verb “to be” in ancient Greek.
Are you Jesus of Nazareth?
“I am”
Before Abraham
“I am”.
“I am the bread of life”
He exists as the bread of life. He sustains us.
Jodi,
what do you think of this verse 62 of John 6 ?
Where was Jesus before he came to earth?
[61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?(because Jesus said He was ” The bread which came down from heaven”):
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?Jesus was WHERE ?
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Jodi, you seem to focus on one aspect, Jesus humanity.
But the full picture is this:
He came from God and was with God in the beginning.
He emptied himself and became a man (came in the flesh).
Now he is in the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
And what kind of body will we have?
One like his. We will be like him. He is the son, we are sons.
This message is scriptural and doesn’t come from my own imagination.
And because this topic is about free will, I better say this:
You can choose to believe these things written in scripture or not.
Your choice.
Hi T8,
I can certainly agree with that 🙂
____________
God bless
Ed JT8…..We all came from God, saying that, “Jesus can from God”, has nothing to do with Jesus “prexisting” his berth on this earth. If you can’t see Jesus as coming into his “only” true existence , as a human being, “exactly” as we did, you simply do not believe in the true Jesus of scriptures, but have bought into the biggest “lie” ever told, a LIE that was created by Satan himself to cause people to not believe that they can actually become “exactly” as Jesus is, in “every way” buy obeying what he told us.
People because of the Lie told them by Satan’s and his ministers, have moved Jesus away from their “exact” identity with him, making him different then we are, so they can’t truley believe what he said . Jesus was never about Jesus, he was always about the relationship with the Father, and he told us how to have the right relationship with the Father, Satan’s ministers have turned that around and made it all about worshiping Jesus as our God. 2ths2, is exactly what fallen Christanity has done, with the “false image”, of Jesus (a man), as a prexistent God. , they have all became “IDOLATERS “. They have broken the first commandment of God, I am the LORD YOUR GOD, “You shall have “no” other God besides me, you shall make no “image of me” , in heaven above or earth beneath.” These false teacher have done, both , made another God, and worship him as such, turning the “image” of our Lord Jesus into a “man of sin”.
All those who do this will be held accountable in judgement, when Jesus returns and destroys those false teachings of him and those who teach it. Because they received not the love of the truth, GOD has sent unto them a deceiving Spirit, in order for them to believe the “LIE” . 2THS2.
Good Morning Ed J,
Thanks for your post.
My focus is actually on God’s Spirit and what that Spirit accomplished through His Son Jesus Christ, eternal life, who has been declared firstborn of many.
I can’t help it Ed J, I choose to not ignore that which our heavenly Father declared from the beginning, that a human was chosen from among his brethren being elected to fulfill the purpose of our Father’s creation.
I can’t help it to take this truth and apply it to all other passages so I stay in truth to what the full picture is said to be.
I can’t help it if the firstborn of many is the son of David who sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh, and is a Son of God According to God’s Spirit, where upon having risen from the dead he received the promised Holy Spirit for all eternity.
I can’t help it if it says that the Son of Man is returning where he finishes our heavenly Father’s purpose declared from the beginning, where the Son of Man is a servant of God walking in all of God’s ways obeying every command.
I can’t help it if God says the dry bones shall live and our Father will give those bones a heart of flesh and put His Spirit upon His people where they will walk in God’s ways and follow all of His statutes.
Hi Ed J,
YOU: He came from God and was with God in the beginning.
ME: Jesus Christ came from God and this Jesus was declared by God in the beginning, as the man who would come and execute God’s purpose. Jesus is the bread from heaven and that bread is his flesh, not any flesh, but flesh that received the fullness of God’s Spirit and power and was then sent out into the world to fulfill our Father’s purpose declared even before the world was.
YOU: He emptied himself and became a man (came in the flesh).
ME: Jesus Christ, who being in the form of God, seeing himself equal to God having the fullness of his Spirit and powers therein, emptied himself of his own will to be a servant following only God’s will. Being in the form of God having not only the fullness of God’s Spirit and power, but also acting in God’s stead performing not his own works but that of God’s and speaking not his own words but that of God’s, he still found himself in the likeness of man, able to be tempted, able to fear death, and able to die.
YOU: Now he is in the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,ME: Now Jesus Christ is in the glory of the Father, he sits at God’s right hand as the Son of Man and “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.” This glory was OF (para) God before the world was, glory unto the man who God had elected before creation was even made, to execute God’s purpose. Jesus, the Son of Man was asking God for him to receive that glory that was OF God declared for the Son of Man before the world was. Jesus of Nazareth had received the fullness of God’s Spirit not by measure, it was called an ANOINTING, Chrio made into the Christos, where upon then he was SENT out into the world.
YOU: And what kind of body will we have?
One like his. We will be like him. He is the son, we are sons.ME: And what kind of body will we have?
According to Paul each kind of seed that God had sown was prepared for it’s very own glory. That which is sown does not grow or change into a different kind, the very kind itself receives the very glory God intended for that kind of seed to receive. The very reason why we are told in the beginning that God made man in His own image, where his purpose was for that kind of seed to have God’s Spirit dwelling ALL IN with eternal life able through God’s Spirit to follow all of God’s ways. The very fact that God’s resurrected Son is said to be a human having received the promised Holy Spirit, and that the resurrected bones will receive a heart of flesh and God will rest His Spirit upon them, confirms this truth leaving no doubt.
YOU: This message is scriptural and doesn’t come from my own imagination.
And because this topic is about free will, I better say this:
You can choose to believe these things written in scripture or not.
Your choice.ME: Ed J, you change the very image of who the “he” is in scripture all because you don’t apply that which our heavenly Father declared before the world was concerning a man who would come and execute all of our Creator’s purpose for His creation, and recall Yehovah created all things ALONE by himself. God knew that one human would bring sin and death and by ONE HUMAN we would have righteousness and LIFE. Yehovah, when creating all things by himself, He was doing so by reason of and for this one human. Through one human we are “justified from all things”, with out the LIFE this human was promised in God’s word from the beginning to bring, there would be no point in Yehovah our Father making creation at all.
God is LIFE, we have LIFE through God giving the fullness of His Spirit to a man, called an ANOINTING, who was THEN sent out into the world upon receiving that Spirit for the purpose TO SET US AT LIBERTY. Not just any Son of Man was sent to save that which was lost, the man who received the fullness of God’s Spirit at the river Jordan, is he who had come into the world. He paid the penalty for our sins which was death, so that we could be raised also receiving the promised Holy Spirit that he received upon his resurrection, where we too can be eternal humans following our Father’s ways in all things.
Ed J, you can choose to believe Jesus is exactly who he is said to be which is a human being, if he is a being that is more than a human existing of a different additional kind of being that does not equate him to be an actual human being in the slightest, that equates him to existing as another type of being all together.
Prophecy spoke of a human being to come, Jesus was born a human, he was anointed and sent out being a human, he died and was raised a human , he sits at God’s right hand as a human , he is returning as a human, and he sits upon an eternal throne as a human being. This very human being was declared by Yehovah before the world was, a simple biblical fact.
Jodi
what do you think of this verse 62 of John 6 ?
Where was Jesus before he came to earth?
[61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?(because Jesus said He was ” The bread which came down from heaven”):
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?Jesus was WHERE BEFORE ?
They have an excuse for everything and most are pretty lame. Let’s see what they come up with. It will probably be that God foreknew him which would also be very lame.
“I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.” (Ezra 7:13)For those who say there is no “Free Will”, better smudge Ezra 7:13 out of your bible
Edj……look up the text in it original intent, it is simply say if they of themselves decide to, it is not addressing the term “freewill” itself. What it really means people doing things from their “own” will. By deciding themselves to do something. We all can do that, anytime, but that does not address the fact that that our will are free at all. No will is free itself or it simply would not be a will at all. The very word will itself mean a self desire and that desire comes from what influences us the most. NOTHING “FREE” ABOUT IT.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
T8…… So now it’s God’s word thats “lame” , What’s lame about saying God foreknow, WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO, scriptures plainly shows us he did, Nothing lame about that. If you want I can list all the many scriptures that prove it, but would it do anything to change your mind, it hasn’t yet?, even though the biggest part of all scripture is based on the “foreknowledge of God” , you will still hold on to your wrong conclusions, no matter how many scriptures we use, and have used, anyway.
Peaceand love to you and yours. …………gene
Jodi
what do you think of this verse 62 of John 6 ?
Where was Jesus before he came to earth?
[61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?(because Jesus said He was ” The bread which came down from heaven”):
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?Jesus was WHERE BEFORE ?
ME: Berean I think we covered this on another thread.
Jesus was RAISED UP from the dead. He was on earth, he died, and then was raised up where he was a witness to many again on earth.
It is the Son of MAN ascending where he was before.
“I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.” (Ezra 7:13)For those who say there is no “Free Will”, better smudge Ezra 7:13 out of your bible
Edj……look up the text in it original intent, it is simply say if they of themselves decide to, it is not addressing the term “freewill” itself. What it really means people doing things from their “own” will. By deciding themselves to do something. We all can do that, anytime, but that does not address the fact that that our will are free at all. No will is free itself or it simply would not be a will at all. The very word will itself mean a self desire and that desire comes from what influences us the most. NOTHING “FREE” ABOUT IT.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene,
Are you suggesting we change our bible, because you don’t like what it says?
Because “Free Will” exists?
[61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?(because Jesus said He was ” The bread which came down from heaven”):
Hi Jodi,
The bread (Christ) that came down from heaven was born in (Bethlehem) the House of Bread.
Bethlehem means: “House of Bread”
With the prophecy given in Micah 5:2:
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
(Christ) whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)Edj…..What I am saying is, those words do not address the “will” itself, it is saying we have freedom to eXpress our wills. AND THOSE WILLS ARE THE EXPRESSIONS OF WHAT IS “INFLUENCING” us the most. The subject of what a will is is not even being spoken about there. I have never said we didn’t have “freedom” to express our own “influenced” wills, but the wills themselves are far from being “free”.
I have told you that many times before, are you able to understand that?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Hi Gene,
What you said is most excellent!
“What I am saying is, those words do not address the “will” itself, it is saying we have freedom to eXpress our wills. AND THOSE WILLS ARE THE EXPRESSIONS OF WHAT IS “INFLUENCING” us the most. The subject of what a will is is not even being spoken about there. I have never said we didn’t have “freedom” to express our own “influenced” wills, but the wills themselves are far from being “free”.”
Hi Ed J,
Yes, very good Bethlehem means: “House of Bread”
Christ (anointed with the fullness of the Spirit) is the bread from heaven/from God.
When God before the world began promised us eternal life, that was a promise of the fullness of the Spirit where God is able to cause/influence us to walk in all His ways.
When God is ALL IN we are able to live without sin, and when there is no sin there is no death, and thus as long as we have God remain ALL IN we have eternal life.
God forgives us our sins through Christ (the man who God is all in), and by that forgiveness we now have access to that same Spirit that Christ was given, being joint heirs with Jesus, having God be all in us too.
Christ is the example of what a man needs in order to have righteousness and life, the fullness of the Spirit. God was able to forgive us because no other mortal but Jesus had received the full measure, so we were bound to sin.
Through an anointing of one man we received access to an anointing ourselves.
What truly saves us is the gift of God’s Spirit that gives us righteousness and thus life.
Christ represents God ALL IN, and it was God’s purpose from the beginning that we all be OF Christ, have God be ALL IN ALL.
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