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Gene,
The point is that the circumstances do not dictate a persons actions as even when the circumstances are the same two different individuals can make two different choices.
If I am not addressing your point correctly then try to break it down and detail it.
Hi Gene,
A while back I joined the Ray Smith forum.
But the conditions were that you could not
argue with or even question any of his beliefs.
I quickly realized I was wasting my time with them.Maybe those on his forum don’t have a freewill either (just like you).
_______________
God bless
Ed JEDj…..i did the same thing years ago before RAY died. i had downloaded some of his sermons they were pretty much right on, me and him were in the same church many years ago. the WWCG, the ARMSTRONG bunch, he and i left that church about the same time for many of the same reasons even though we had never meant. he was high up in the organization at that time and he was the main person that exposed and drought down the Armstrong dynasty, the church still exist but you would never believe it was the same church or had any thing in common with it. They now preach the trinitarian dogmas and keep all the pagan days like Christmas, Easter, and ect. and sunday worship.
But my question to you is did you read what he said about the “MYTH OF FREEWILL” ? PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE with an open mind. And come back and tell us what you think OK?
The reason i am asking people to read it is because he explains it a lot better then i seem to have.
peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Dear Kerwin,
I invent nor espouse any strange doctrines but if Gene’s and your doctrine of separation be true then the only logical conclusion is that your dear St Paul did indeed teach the worship of a creature called Christ and it was primarily he that changed the “truth of God” into a lie.You claim not to worship “the creature” called Christ correct? thus you prove my point by your disagreement with St Paul.
It’s so foolish of you to quote 2 peter in not understanding Paul as so many fundamentalists do trying to prove their absurdities.
If Christ be nothing more than a creature like ourselves then our salvation is truly by our own freewill. And maybe that really is the truth?
AndrewAD,
I hold Jesus Christ is King and is to be worshiped as such and not as God. The word worship has become a loaded word which many assume can be given to the one true God. In reality it is a generic word that covered hero worship and similar displays of adulation. It is a traditional Jewish viewpoint. The Trinity did not arise until centuries afterwards due to the misinterpretation of certain Scripture and preexisting pagan ideas in the Roman empire. The Trinity temple that say on the Temple mound was a pagan temple and Jerusalem was renamed after it by the Romans. In addition the before Catholicism became the state religion Romans held there emperor was God and worshiped him accordingly. Soon after that the state religion declared Jesus the King of Kings to be the one true God. Coincidences or just an extension of a pagan belief in sheep clothing.
Judaism also has many pagan parallels and it’s evolution has many Persian and Greek influences,if you are wanting to be historical. And these influences are even seen in the gospels.
Judaism is no more true than Christianity. You want to be a jew like Jesus you think? like that makes you better than Christianity? think again.
AndrewAD,
You sound like a skeptic and not a believer.
There was a true sect of Judaism that became the true sect of Christianity when the new covenant was established. It is really only one religion that has entered the time of the new covenant. Isaiah, though of the true Jewish sect, was a Christian because he believe the Christ to come was to become King over all things in heaven in on earth. So to with other members of the true sect.
It is difficult to separate what is influences from foreign religions and what is native to each because they are all sibling religions. Even the beliefs of the savage tribes of England and England seem to bear similarities. The bottom line is the Jews believed and still believe the Anointed would be a human being. There error, as testified in Scripture, is they did not believe. Those that did believe became his student-adherents.
AndrewAD….Phil 2:10-11…That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow , of thing in heaven, and things in earth, and under the earth; 11, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is lord, “TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER”.
SO, no matter how we honor Jesus Christ, it should always be, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER. but never as himself being a God or worshiped as a God. Therein lies the fault with the DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY, IT is a fase teaching that changes our perception of Jesus as to who ans what he is, it completely SEPERATES him from his human IDENITY, Therefore it is a SATANIC “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” .
peace an love to you and yours………gene
If Christ be nothing more than a creature like ourselves then our salvation is truly by our own freewill. And maybe that really is the truth?
He is called the Word of God, so not a mere creature only.
Hi t8,
How is Jesus the WORD of God according to scripture?
We know that the LORD said He would raise up a prophet like Moses from among brethren and God would put His words into his mouth. As this scripture is spoken in the NT saying it was filled in Jesus, that is God’s WORD made true in a man of flesh.
A man of flesh promised to be given God’s word, was made true in Jesus.
We know that Jesus received of the Spirit not by measure, an anointing, where he was sent out to preach God’s word.
Prophecy of Isaiah 61we read fulfilled in Luke 4. Such was God’s word concerning a man of flesh of the seed of Jesse, made true in the man of flesh Jesus.
The purpose of the anointing and sending of the man of flesh Jesus, was for him to not just speak God’s word but he was also elected by God to fulfill God’s word, fulfill that which God had declared before the world began.
Jesus is God’s word spoken by the prophets made true in his flesh, Jesus speaks God’s word, and Jesus fulfills the very words that God spoke.
Hi t8,
YOU:If Christ be nothing more than a creature like ourselves then our salvation is truly by our own freewill. And maybe that really is the truth?
ME: I am not following your reasoning here.
t8, let’s talk about the passage below in particular if we could,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Set at liberty means forgiveness or pardon of sins.
Do we agree that the Spirit of the Lord that is upon Jesus is that which came down like a dove upon him at his baptism?
Our salvation comes through God sending Jesus of Nazareth upon the Spirit resting upon him, otherwise he could do nothing of himself.
Jesus is a human as we are humans, but he is the only human who God appointed to be a lord over lords and a king over kings. According to Isaiah 53, BECAUSE the man who shed his blood for or sins followed God’s command in doing so, God divides him a portion with the great and he is appointed to divide the spoil with the strong.
If Christ be nothing more than a creature like ourselves then our salvation is truly by our own freewill. And maybe that really is the truth?
That doesn’t look like something I would have written. I cannot find the actual post, so cannot see the context.
Do we agree that the Spirit of the Lord that is upon Jesus is that which came down like a dove upon him at his baptism?
I agree with that.
Ah, you quoted it from someone else and your response was given below, that makes sense.
This comes to mind for me at first thought,
Luke 1:67-75 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
and this,
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
All these things about Jesus birth, childhood, and life are true.
None of these negates his origin.
He came in the flesh to become one of us, so we could be born again and become like him, the son of God.
Through him God created the universe.
Hi t8,
Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
He wasn’t born being a king, but they called him that because of prophecy, where they believed he would eventually become a king.
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