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Kaia,
I am doing fine even though I am challenged by God. I hope you are as well.Kerwin, yes I’m ok thanks. Good actually.
EDJ…..THE VERY scripture you posred shows God “determines” there time, he also predestines certian people to be his servants, even before some were born, for It says God predestined us to be conforned unto his dear sons. The very word “PREDESTINED” IT SELF IS AN APSOLUTE PROOF that there is NO WILL THAT IS FREE, or how could there be any predestination of any kind exist if a person is predestined for something.
Actually EDJ IT YOU IT’S YOUR PREDESPOSED MIND THAT doesn’t let you get past, what your held captive in that won’t let you get past what you falsely believe here,not mine. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Gene,
The very word “PREDESTINED” IT SELF IS AN APSOLUTE PROOF that there is NO WILL THAT IS FREE, or how could there be any predestination of any kind exist if a person is predestined for something.
The Koine Greek means ” pre-establish boundaries” according to biblehub.com so it does not prove anything in that context. The Koine Greek word is used in six verses of Scripture and is mentioned 8 times by Paul.
In short God knew beforehand the ones that he set the boundaries to be conformed to the image of the Messiah.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And those whom he foreknew, he also fashioned in the likeness of the image of his Son, that he would be The Firstborn of many brethren.Jubilee Bible 2000
For unto those whom he knew beforehand, he also marked out beforehand the way that they might be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethrenIt is not an open and shut case as far as I can tell. I do not know where Jubilee got the word “might” from either time.
Gene,
You cannot make a case for hard determinism from Scripture as that would blame God for our sins. That would put you in the company of the wicked and I am sure you do not want to be there.
In the past you have posted stuff that makes it appear as if your were more of a soft determinist. Soft determinist believe that both freewill and determinism exist.
Do you believe our “Will” is compulsorily?
(Please answer “Yes” or a “No”)Still waiting for an answer Gene . . . . . ???
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDJ……WILLS, ARE NOT COMPUlSORY, THE ARE THE RESULT IF INFLUENCES, WHICH EVER INFLUENCES YOU THE MOST YOU WILL WILL to do. NOTHING free about a will at all, except the liberty God gives us to exercise those INFLUENCED wills WE have. Go read the articles on freewill i posted for you to read, if not go back and review the video you posted, only this time with a more open mind. OK? It’s all there only you refuse to except not only what i say but what they say also, even with the mountain of scriptures L. RAY SMITH PRODUCES TO PROVE THE POINT. What wrong with you people are you afraid you might be proven wrong, so you chose not to investigate the truth on this issue? Don’t let your pride stop you from seeking the truth on this, it is a very big issue for everyone to come to see clearly. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
L. RAY SMITH PRODUCES TO PROVE THE POINT. What wrong with you people are you afraid you might be proven wrong, so you chose not to investigate the truth on this issue? Don’t let your pride stop you from seeking the truth on this, it is a very big issue for everyone to come to see clearly. IMO
Gene, my Son used up all our data downloading Star Wars (Is what you are pointing us to a video?), but, will look at it when able.
Why is it such a big issue to you? (just wondering).
I believe God being outside of time and outside our dimension, knows the past present and future, and that is how we are predestined?
Do you believe our “Will” is compulsorily?
(Please answer “Yes” or a “No”)EDJ……WILLS, ARE NOT COMPUlSORY,…
Hi Gene,
But you say your “Will” is held CAPTIVE, and at the same
time say you say your “Will” has LIBERTY – that is an OXYMORON.___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Gene,
The bible says we have freewill; why would you choose to be held captive by the influences of a man who says we don’t?
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODKerwin……makes no difference even if the koine Greek, says pre-established boundaries, that still shows control over our wills, right? How could God pre-established anything if he wanted us to have a will that was free, and we must chose from a will that was free to do anything we chose. Why would GOD WORK “IN” US BOTH TO “WILL” and do “his” good pleasure, when he wants us to use our own so-called “free” will to do it ourselves. Why would he say “there is none rightious no not even one”, he said he looked for one rightious man and could not find any. So all free willers never chose right or at least he could find at least one right? Scripture goes on to also say “therefore he took it upon his own arm to bring salvation. Why did he have to do that if he wanted us to chose our own salvation by a “so-called” will that was free of any influences. I maintain there is not even one will that is free , never was either. I believe ever effect has a CAUSE, I AM NOT ALONE EITHER SCIENCE ALSO BACKS THIS UP ALSO. There exist no effect without a cause , in the physical realm or the spritual realm also. All who truly believe in freewill give themselves the credit for any rightious act they do they are simply I GOD’S, A God unto themselves, that was the whole cause of the original sins of mankind, in the beginning and still is.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
EDJ……..PLEASE SHOW WHERE ANY SCRIPTURE SAY “WE HAVE WILL’S THAT ARE FREE” now please be specific to you own words, do not post about a man voluntaring to do something he willed to do, that say nothing about the “WILL ” ITSELF, IT DOES NOT GIVE ANY INDICATION OF THE “CAUSE” BUT ONLY THE EFFECT OF A INFLUENCED WILL. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GOD GIVEN LIBERTY FOR US TO EXPRESS OUR INFLUENCED OR OUR CAUSED WILL, TO VOLUNTARILY DO SOMETHING. None of that is describing the will itself, and that is what we are discussing here.
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Hi Gene,
I gave you a verse that specifically says we have freewill, but because
your thoughts are being held captive by the influences of man – you reject it.___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODGene,
It sounds more like guidelines as used in Romans 8:29 and since the subject of the boundaries is “conformed to the image of His Son” it sounds like he is speaking of the gospel being obeyed by those God knew would be his Son. There are other usages of it that may show determinism but it is not an either determinism or free will.
Hi Gene. Is there a reason you have not answered my latest posts?
Btw, excuse the name change, I had annoying technical issues.
Gene….. This thread has gone on a while (where is Adam, btw?)….. I know you are a good soul, you seem really impressed by this man (L.Ray.Smith), I have read some of his writings in the past, but have not followed this topic.
I can not see how we could have no free will. I am free to do what I want, but God want’s me to be good! God wants me to obey His commandments. I have that choice. Many will fall away (Hebrews.) I believe that is their choice, (though I maybe wrong).
God did not want puppets. God wants us to choose good or bad, right or wrong. That’s just my opinion.
Take care.
Btw, what is “captivated wills”?
Camilla. …….ALL WILLS ARE HELD CAPTIVE BY what is influiencing us. Scripture says he came to setthe captives free. Andif thesonset you free you are free indeed. Now ask your self free from what, sin correct? And again whose ever sins is a servant of sin, how are we severants of sin if our wills are completey free. We are held captive by sin that controls our wills. Paulsaid the he foundno good thing in his flrsh, and went on to say “BECAUSE TO WILL IS PRESENT, ANOTHER WORDS, HIS FLESH WAS HELD CAPTIVE BY THE SIN THAT DWELT IN HIS MEMBERS. OUR WILL’S ARE DRIVEN BY SIN THAT DWELLS “IN” US, so Paul understood that it was Jesus’ sacrifice that could deliever him from the “BONDAGE” OF SIN THAT DWELT IN HIS MEMBERS. SO if Christ set you free, you are free from sin indeed, and you have exchanged your captivity, from one state to another state, THEREFORE IT SAYS, “GOD “WORKS” IN US “BOTH” TO WILL (HIS WILL) AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE. We are kept by GOD THE FATHER, WE ARE HIS CHILDERN, HIS POSSESION. CAMILLA NO WILL IS EVER “FREE” ALL WILL ARE DRIVEN WILLS, THE QUESTION IS WHO IS DRIVING THOSE WILLS, GOD THE FATHER, OR OUR OWN FLESHLY CARNEL SINFULL NATURE. But be assured no will either GOD’S OR man’s is free “ITSELF”. THE TERM FREEWILL IS AN OXYMORON. NO TO WAYS ABOUT IT. IMO
PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU AND YOURS………….. …..gene
Gene,
Please, I would really like what view your understanding falls under.
You are not making yourself clear on what your believe.
Try this site for some definitions.
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/determinism.html
Thank you!
Kerwin……..it’s not my view it is what the scriptures i have over and over quoted here is saying. Go back and read them all. I went to the site you ask me to and read much of it and most of it agree with what i have been saying imo, but i deduced my conclusions from scriptures i have quoted over and over here not on science. My argument is not against science, becaus nearly all science agrees with the principle of cause and effect. If all things are caused then there is nothing free about it right? Every actions we take are caused actions, nothing free about them. Freewill is an idology born from the EGO OF MAN, but far from the truth of GOD AND SCRIPTURE.
I have given example after example over the years from scriptures no one even acknowledges them, they just ignore them as if they do not even exist , i have brought out where men were preordaind to do certain things that they did, even where the apostles were presestined and chose by God to do what they did , Paul even said he was forordained from his very berth, so where was freewill in that case, i produced scriptures that showed where GOD takes from the same lump of clay and makes vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath, where Pharoah’s heart was hardened by GOD, WHERE WAS FREEWILL IN ALL THESE THINGS AT. NOT ONE SCRIPTURE SAY WE HAVE A WILL THAT IS FREE IN US, INFACT IT SAYS JESUS CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE, FREE from what? Is that not the captivity their own minds were in, and if their minds were held captive so was their will, so where is a will that is “free” in all that ?.
Again i maintain there exists no such thing as a WILL, THAY IS FREE., the word freewill is an OXYMORON.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene,
I see freewill in the fact we are instructed to do anything by God. If we had no freewill then we would mot have to be instructed to make a choice as that choice would already be made for us.
I see determinism in the fact that God put the choice in our life to make.
You did not answer my question as it is what you understand from Scripture I was hoping to hear. I just wand where you understand best first on the determinism-free will scale. One of the names in the site I gave you that best describes what you hear from Scripture.
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