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Gene,
2 Peter 1:10
10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
There are many verses that mention things regarding our calling and warning us not to continue to sin or stumble.
I just chose to put only one verse in, right now.The verse above warns us about stumbling. It is saying that even though we have been chosen by God, we could still stumble. If God doesn’t ever allow our own will in regards to HIM, how then could we stumble?
The whole bible us filled with example after example of God showing us and proving to us who HE is, HIS love for us, HIS plan for us — scripture after scripture of HIS Word and HIS promises – promises he KEEPS! HE is proving that HE is worthy of praise, worship and love. Why would he do that if in the end HE WILL MAKE us love HIM no matter what?
Do not all of us want to be loved by others because THEY freely chose to love us? How many of us would be satisfied receiving simulated love….manufactured love? We are imperfect and yet demand true love, don’t we? Yet some are assigning the lesser type of love to God when they say that we have no choice but to love God because HIS WILL supersedes ours. So we are to put stock in the idea that manufactured/simulated love and not TRUE love is perfectly fine to God and for God?..THE Supreme Being???…THE Creator of the Universe and everything in it??? Really?!?!
That hypothesis seems more than a little off the mark.The only one saying that the term “free will”, itself, means anti-Sovereignty of God, is you. I am suggesting to you that I (and many) accept that the term “free will” means that God has obviously allowed HIS creation, on Earth AND in Heaven, to have this freedom in being able to choose to love HIM or not, to choose to obey or not.
We have free will WITHIN God’s Sovereignty and NOT free will OUTSIDE of God’s Sovereignty-(which is an impossibility, btw).
I’m starting to beat a dead horse, it seems. So I probably won’t comment further on this subject. But one never knows 😉
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GrasshopperGene
Why does GOD HAVE WORK IN US TO CAUSE US TO WILL TO DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE, AFTER ALL HE BELIEVES WE CAN DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE BY OUR OWN FREEWILLS RIGHT? Who needs God because we can simply choose to do his good pleasure ourselves right? SCRIPTURE SAYS their is NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO NOT EVEN ONE. BUT FREEWILLERS SAY WE CAN chose to DO GOOD on our own by OURSELVES. In fact scripture say there is none that chosses God either, we mustbe “CAUSED” TO CHOSE HIM.
just a question ,we know that the world is full of wickedness like today ISIS are those people doing the will of of God good pleasure ?
if yes, why they are so different in their actions than the apostles ?
if not ,why not ?Gene,
The word free means free of any kind of influences
That is not what I understand. It means a choice made from within you. It certainly takes in account environmental and other factors. An addict is said to have free will but if you are an addict that wants to quite but is driven by your own body to continue then you may question that is is free will.
gene
The word free means free of any kind of influences
this would be like asking for a empty glass ;but we all know that a glass is never empty ,
if it seem empty it is because we cannot see what is in it right ? yes ,like air ,could be full of germs ,or bacteria , things we cannot see under normal condition ;
but we all know that even the drink we pour is not the only thing that we will drink right ?yes
Terricca…….where do you come up with all these things from? I honestly don’t see how that fits what we are talking about here brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
To all……..There exists no such thing as a WILL that is FREE, if anyone is interested in the complete explination about this subject, please go to, bible-truths.com, and go to the “hell fire” paper written by, L. RAY SMITH, and scroll down to the section on FREE-WILL AND YOU WILL GET A COMPLETE BIBLE EXPLINATION ON THE SUBJECT, it is a complete and accurate explanation of what a freewill is, and how the concept of a freewill countradicts the very words of God and scriptures.
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene,
People are interested in what you say and how you defend those words or change them with the evidence presented.
Kerwin…….what and how i believe about a freewill is summed up exactly in what L. Ray SMITH has written, it is all laid out very clearly, in a complete presentation, to present all of that material at one time would take ten or more pages here, and i have posted much of what it says here over the years, without secess it seems, so perhaps comming from another person it can be better understood.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Gene,
So repeat his arguments and be prepared to defend them. If you tested them you should be able to do that. Put them forth and let your peers review them.
I got bored going through his words as he debated points I found absurd. I am not even sure he knows the difference between Hell of Sheol and Gehenna aka Hell. They are two different places even though the AV of KJV and his descendents label them the same.
Kerwin…….what and how i believe about a freewill is summed up exactly in what L. Ray SMITH has written, it is all laid out very clearly, in a complete presentation, to present all of that material at one time would take ten or more pages here, and i have posted much of what it says here over the years, without secess it seems, so perhaps comming from another person it can be better understood.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Hi Gene,
It only takes one bible verse to shoot down the false theory that there is no freewill.
But then again one must believe that the bible has supremacy rather than man’s ideas.___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Kerwin, this one…
“I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.” (Ezra 7:13)___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDJ………The word used there is actually implies a voluntary act, it is not speaking about what caused that “volintary act to take place, now is it? Your mixing up God allowing us liberty to express our influenced wills with the will itself. I am not talking about what God allows here, but the actual will itself. I have many times agreed to God allowing us the liberty to excercise our captivated wills. What you present here answers none of all the scriptures i have over the years posted here.
Go to the site i have posted here and read what is written about the subject of freewill and then come back and post your replies. OK
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Gene,
The definition Google gives for voluntary is “done, given, or acting of one’s own free will.”. That implies that one does not always act of their free will. Compulsorily is defined as required by rule or law.
The short is that it is up to each individual to choose from within them if that person is to “go up to Jerusalem” or not.
Hi Gene,
Q. What causes any voluntary act to take place?
A. FreewillDo you believe our “Will” is compulsorily?
(Please answer “Yes” or a “No”)___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDj……..NO, what causes it, is the proof, it is not free at all, our wills are caused to react to all kind of things ,fear, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, our desires to do all of theses things are motivated by strong influences, and are the causes and that effect is our wills. Common sense should tell you that EDJ. If there is a cause, then the effet is a caused effect. If the video you posted didn’t convience you, simply go read what i posted for you to read and you will come to understand all you need to know about a “so-called” freewill, you will come to see how greatly that false teaching goes against God and his will and purposeses and his predestined power which operates in all creation including our lives also.
Infact all believers of freewills are against the SOVERNITY OF GOD, they do not want him controlling any aspect of their lives, they want to maintain their own sovernity in what ever they do, they are I GOD’S, GOD’S UNTO THEMSELVES. All people who demand a freewill are rebellious and actually are rejecting God, unless they can accept him on their own terms. Which given them the “power” to chose for themselves what good for them or not. Who needs God, they can chose AND decide for themselves what right and what wrong, RIGHT?
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
GENE,
Infact all believers of freewills are against the SOVERNITY OF GOD, they do not want him controlling any aspect of their lives, they want to maintain their own sovernity in what ever they do, they are I GOD’S, GOD’S UNTO THEMSELVES. All people who demand a freewill are rebellious and actually are rejecting God, unless they can accept him on their own terms. Which given them the “power” to chose for themselves what good for them or not. Who needs God, they can chose AND decide for themselves what right and wrong,RIGHT
That is a VERY strong accusation based on YOUR opinion of what free will is or isn’t.
What you fail to realize is that when you make these claims, it’s opening up a very stinky can of worms. If you really think that God doesn’t give His creation the ability to decide for themselves (scripture even provides the evidence in Ezra 7:13 – which you CLEARLY are not accepting), then you in essence are claiming that Satan didn’t rebel on his own, but that God made him behave that way. There are scriptures saying how he rebelled against God; if God was behind it, that would imply that scripture is intentionally lying to us – that God’s Word is deceitful and untrue. Do you really want to go there???You keep saying that there is NO “free will” as far as mankind is concerned, because everything has influence. And your version of free means absolutely zero influence; Thus, if there IS influence of some sort, THAT makes “free” invalid. I take it though, that you will agree that God Himself has free will. In fact, you believe that ONLY God has free will, because there is nothing influencing His actions…am I correct?
Well I would like to submit a scripture that shows that even God makes some decisions based on situations, circumstances.
Matt 24:22 (ESV)
And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.The above scripture mentions how God takes certain actions for the sake of the Saints. Couldn’t one say that in this case, at least, God’s actions are BECAUSE of the Saints? The concern that God has for the Saints determins what God will do. One could say that God’s “concern” for the Saints is an influencing factor.
You want to argue that our will is not our own…
But that’s like arguing that our children aren’t ours because God created them.No one is denying God’s Sovereignty… But you are putting words into other people’s mouths and you alone are determining what is in someone’s heart, as evidenced in the above quote of yours. I’d be very careful of continuing to do that, brother.
Gene, to make such accusations about other believer’s hearts – especially because those accusations are based solely on something that is a moot point to begin with, shows me that you should perhaps do some serious introspective meditation regarding what you deem important concerning salvation in Christ.
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GrasshopperGene,
Ed is making the point that since Scripture endorsed idea of volunteering it cannot also support determinism.
determinism according to Google
the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.
Do you believe our “Will” is compulsorily?
(Please answer “Yes” or a “No”)Hi Gene,
Was that a “Yes” answer or a “no” answer?
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
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