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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 24 2012,21:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2012,07:13) Thanks to God, Dennison and Gene have the FREE WILL to decide whether or not they CHOOSE to believe in FREE WILL. 
Mike……….I do not have a Will that is “FREE” God allows me “LIBERTY” or “FREEDOM” to express my captivated and influenced will Nothing Free about the working of our wills at all. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2012,02:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2012,07:13) Thanks to God, Dennison and Gene have the FREE WILL to decide whether or not they CHOOSE to believe in FREE WILL.
Mike……….I do not have a Will that is “FREE” God allows me “LIBERTY” or “FREEDOM” to express my captivated and influenced will Nothing Free about the working of our wills at all. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Are you telling us that God gives you the FREEDOM to do as you WILL?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Reason for edit: wrong name was addressed.Let me be quick about this everyone.
You guys are confusing the ability to choose, and what Free-will really means. Actually Gene is right, not every has that liberty to be able to do what they wish to do.
In the same note, ya also believe that our choices are independant from God's influence, which that notion is wrong.Understand that at times we have the liberty to choose, and not everyone has the right to make certains choices in the world. Consquences are meant to discourage certain choices that people will make in life.
Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,11:29) Let me be quick about this everyone. You guys are confusing the ability to choose, and what Free-will really means. Actually Gene is right, not every has that liberty to be able to do what they wish to do.
In the same note, ya also believe that our choices are independant from God's influence, which that notion is wrong.Understand that at times we have the liberty to choose, and not everyone has the right to make certains choices in the world. Consquences are meant to discourage certain choices that people will make in life.
Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
You seem not to read the quotes ,so what you are saying is worthlessOne way speech enjoy
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2012,05:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2012,07:13) Thanks to God, Dennison and Gene have the FREE WILL to decide whether or not they CHOOSE to believe in FREE WILL.
Mike……….I do not have a Will that is “FREE” God allows me “LIBERTY” or “FREEDOM” to express my captivated and influenced will Nothing Free about the working of our wills at all. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene, you are free to choose among that which you are aware of. And how does one become aware of anything. Experience to some degree. So whether you like it or not, this doesn;t nullify free will it enables it. That is why we are free to choose between the spirit and the flesh, because we experience both and choose the one based on a whole lot of parameters. Benefits for now, or benefits for eternity etc.Understand that, and you will stop arguing over nothing.
And you don't usually choose things you are not aware of.
Now that this is sorted. You are free to choose among all that you are aware of and/or have experienced.
And when you chose a wife was that because you were free to ask her for her hand in marriage among all the women that you know and have met, just as she was free to accept. Just because you didn't ask Martha Bartha from Timbuktoo doesn't mean that you were not free to choose who to marry or to marry at all.
Free will obviously works within what we know. Usually that doesn't have to be said, but I think I need to mention this in your case.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,19:29) Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
Actually without God you would not have anything to choose from. And without the Devil, you have nothing to choose that is outside of God.Now that we are influenced by both, you are free to choose this day who you will serve.
You are free to choose that which is available. I am surprised that this level of detail needs to be mentioned.
I am not free to choose to be the next man to walk on the moon. But I am free to choose within the confines of the world I live in.
I am free to choose among many things. But not all things.
This doesn't nullify free will.
And the argument that we are not free because of God is silly. We are free to choose because of him. That is why we are responsible for our choices because there is always a good choice and a bad one.
If God didn't give me sight, then how could I choose a silver car or a black one?
The ironic thing is that you need God in order to have free will. Not the other way round.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2012,05:30) captivated and influenced will
Gene, a captivated will is one where you can only choose that which the captor wants to you to choose.God wants you to choose him, but he never makes him the only choice. You are free to not choose him. You are free to replace God with money for example.
You have enough choices to be free to choose among those choices.
If you think otherwise, then you are a captive yourself. If you choose to be a captive for Christ, then different story because you freely chose that.
If we are not free to choose, then how is that God can judge us based on our choices.
You just need to think a little deeper about this.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,16:29) Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”.
Hi Dennison,No it doesn't.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgT8……What you are describing is a WILL that is (INFLUENCED) by what ever circumstances, and desires in you mind Hardly a Will that is “FREE” at all. A will that is “influenced” is not a will that is FREE at all .
T8……Here is some scriptures to think about.
John 6:44………No man can come to me except the Father draw him.
So if it is a matter of a WILL that is “FREE” then why would the Father have to “DRAW” us. After all according to you and other so called “Freewill believers God want us to come to Jesus as a result of our So-called “FREEWILL” Choices. Which is giving us the power over our own salvation .
T8…..Read carefully from Romans 9:12-22
Rom 9:16……> So then it is not of him the wills, nor of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy.
People who believe their own So-called “FREEWILLS” saves them are simply I GOD”S who trust in themselves giving themselves the credit for their salvation.
Because God allows us the “LIBERTY” to exercise our “CAPTIVATED” and BIASED WILLS in no way means our Wills are Really “FREE” themselves, becasue the Will “ITSELF” is not free or it could not be “INFLUENCED at all if they were truly “FREE”, Common sense should tell you that T8. In fact the very word “WILL” means it is not FREE or it would Not be a WILL now would it? IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi Gene,
This has got to be the funniest topic going;
you are using your “Free Will” to tell us
that we don't have our “Free Will”?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI agree Ed. This is a crazy topic. I might exercise my free will to get out while the getting is good.
But not until I make this comment to Dennison:
I hear what you are saying, D. In the case of Pharaoh before the exodus, his will was controlled by God to a point. He might have let the Israelites go long before the firstborn were killed, but God was making his heart hard (controlling his will) so that His might and glory would become known to all.
It is true that there are examples of this in scripture, where one's will was semi-controlled by God – but these are few and far between. As a general rule, all people have always had their own free will to choose which paths they would take all throughout their lives.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2012,22:51) I agree Ed. This is a crazy topic. I might exercise my free will to get out while the getting is good. But not until I make this comment to Dennison:
I hear what you are saying, D. In the case of Pharaoh before the exodus, his will was controlled by God to a point. He might have let the Israelites go long before the firstborn were killed, but God was making his heart hard (controlling his will) so that His might and glory would become known to all.
It is true that there are examples of this in scripture, where one's will was semi-controlled by God – but these are few and far between. As a general rule, all people have always had their own free will to choose which paths they would take all throughout their lives.
Mike,
Look its really simple, all Gene is saying and I am saying is that the term “Free-will” as ya see it, doesn't exist.
The term that a “will” is free, is totally used wrong.
Your applying the term free-will as the same as freedom of choice. Its rather silly because we know that even within society our choices are limited to a degree.
Yes we can choose from left and right but to a degree. Everything is limited to circumstance and law.
Everything you just said negates the notion that free-will is for 100% everybody, that at least you admitted that some are directly influenced by God. And note that God claims he raised pharaoh up for that very purpose, it was predesitined.
The term itself its just wrong. can we choose, yes but its limited depending the on the options that are GIVEN to us. Just like Gene said, that the Father “DRAWS” on us.
The bible claims that NOBODY seeks God, yet consider that there are those that do seek God, but why?
Because GOD makes them a new heart, to seek Him!
I can give you the scriptures for what I said above if needed.
Fact number 1. Nobody seeks God
Fact number 2. There are those that seek God
Question: If there is such a thing as freewill and it is plainly said that NOBODY seeks God, than how is it that there are those that do?
(Oh and answer YES OR NO?—just kidding you can't answer this question with a yes or no answer. talk about killing two birds with one stone.)Dennison
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,12:08) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,11:29) Let me be quick about this everyone. You guys are confusing the ability to choose, and what Free-will really means. Actually Gene is right, not every has that liberty to be able to do what they wish to do.
In the same note, ya also believe that our choices are independant from God's influence, which that notion is wrong.Understand that at times we have the liberty to choose, and not everyone has the right to make certains choices in the world. Consquences are meant to discourage certain choices that people will make in life.
Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
You seem not to read the quotes ,so what you are saying is worthlessOne way speech enjoy
Pierre,Half of what you say is is grammatically incorrect with the your broken english.
In a sense, What you have to say is always worthless.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,09:48) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,12:08) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,11:29) Let me be quick about this everyone. You guys are confusing the ability to choose, and what Free-will really means. Actually Gene is right, not every has that liberty to be able to do what they wish to do.
In the same note, ya also believe that our choices are independant from God's influence, which that notion is wrong.Understand that at times we have the liberty to choose, and not everyone has the right to make certains choices in the world. Consquences are meant to discourage certain choices that people will make in life.
Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
You seem not to read the quotes ,so what you are saying is worthlessOne way speech enjoy
Pierre,Half of what you say is is grammatically incorrect with the your broken english.
In a sense, What you have to say is always worthless.
DWould you think that Christ would badder with you and your Brocken understanding of his words
What you seem to understand his wordless to others any way,Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going;
you are using your “Free Will” to tell us
that we don't have our “Free Will”?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech. Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored.
But because of that right, I can speak today. If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.
Could Pharaoh choose? Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas? How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to? How about everything Job had sufferd through? How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong?Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments. We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene.
Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said. Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well.On this topic, Gene is actually correct.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 26 2012,08:52) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,09:48) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,12:08) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,11:29) Let me be quick about this everyone. You guys are confusing the ability to choose, and what Free-will really means. Actually Gene is right, not every has that liberty to be able to do what they wish to do.
In the same note, ya also believe that our choices are independant from God's influence, which that notion is wrong.Understand that at times we have the liberty to choose, and not everyone has the right to make certains choices in the world. Consquences are meant to discourage certain choices that people will make in life.
Free-will suggests, that your choices are independant from God, and “free”. There isn't a will that is free.
You seem not to read the quotes ,so what you are saying is worthlessOne way speech enjoy
Pierre,Half of what you say is is grammatically incorrect with the your broken english.
In a sense, What you have to say is always worthless.
DWould you think that Christ would badder with you and your Brocken understanding of his words
What you seem to understand his wordless to others any way,
Pierre,Speak english please or spanish.
I don't understand what your saying, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out what your saying just because you don't want to take the time to learn english.
Adios amigo
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:56) Quote D
Would you think that Christ would bother with you and your broken understanding of his words
What you seem to understand is worthless to others anyway.
Pierre,Speak english please or spanish.
I don't understand what your saying, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out what your saying just because you don't want to take the time to learn english.
Adios amigo
Hi Dennison,I will use my “Free Will” to translate it for YOU.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going;
you are using your “Free Will” to tell us
that we don't have our “Free Will”?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech. Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored.
But because of that right, I can speak today. If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.
Could Pharaoh choose? Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas? How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to? How about everything Job had sufferd through? How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong?Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments. We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene.
Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said. Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well.On this topic, Gene is actually correct.
Hi Dennison,Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going;
you are using your “Free Will” to tell us
that we don't have our “Free Will”?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech. Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored.
But because of that right, I can speak today. If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.
Could Pharaoh choose? Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas? How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to? How about everything Job had sufferd through? How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong?Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments. We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene.
Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said. Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well.On this topic, Gene is actually correct.
Hi Dennison,Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I wouldn't know because free will doesn't exist Ed.
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