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Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,10:15) Gene, What is your opinion about my last post?
will He answer mine?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,10:19) Irene……….If Jesus came to (NOT) do HIS WILL then Why do You think He Did HIS so-called “FREE WILL” O, and by the way Jesus never used the word “FREE” WILL did he as you people do, That is your doing not His. Saying someone has a WILL is one thing saying it is a FREE WILL is quite another. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………………………………..gene
Gene, wrong Jesus did, I took that Scripture out of the Blue Letter Bible on the Internet…… Read it….. and Deut. also we have a free will. He had a will in order to say that He came to do not mine own will, but My Fathers will….. IreneQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,07:18) To all, Using the definitions for “will” at dictionary.com I believe that Jesus is speaking of purpose. I also believe that purpose is driven by a combination of the desires of the soul and spirit influenced by physical and environmental factors such as culture, perceived abilities, obstacles to the choice, etc. Romans 7:22-23 is the basis of this conclusion.
I also believe you make the choice to submit or not to submit to the will of God based on the desires of the soul alone even though Satan will strive to get you to strive not to. Matthew 5:6 is the basis of this conclusion.
Kerwin………….I agree with it , our will are driven by these combination of things, they form our Wills that is the same with GOD, “He does (ALL THINGS) (HOW?) After the (COUNCIL) of (HIS WILL). Nothing FREE about IT. a Counseled will is not a “FREE” Will it is a DIRECTED WILL>Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,17:14) Treeicca………..NO, that choice will alway be based on what (INFLUENCES) you the most. God would never expect us to make a right Choice based on our CARNAL NATURES and limited understandings. He must install (IN) Us His way of thinking and reveal thing to us. He does this by His Spirit, this is the MIND that was driving Jesus that Mind of GOD was greater in HIM then His Mind and it overcame HIS WILL. But either way His WILL or GODS, neither is a “FREE” WILL, that word is and OXYMORON , you simply can't have a WILL and it be FREE at the same time. The very word WILL implies influencing going on (in) a Being no matter who that being is. WILL YES, “FREE” WILL NO. You can not find any where that scripture says we all have “FREE” WILL,OPERATING (IN) US, it say we have WILL but they are far from being FREE, in fact they are captivated WILL, imprisoned by our thinking. Jesus came to set of FREE (FROM ) Our Captivated WILL and Delivers Us in another Captivity that of GOD. Therefore it say HE (Jesus) Led captives, captive. Eph 4:8……….> Wherefore he says, (When) Notice it does not say he (REASCENDED) but, ” he ASCENDED up on high, he led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE) and gave gifts unto men”. 9…> (NOW) , (after his resurrection ), that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of earth?, (when He died). 10 He (Jesus) that descended (into the grave) is the same also that ascended UP far above all all heavens, that He might fill all things. 11 And He gave some apostles, and some, Prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers: 12..>For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ or the CHRISTOS (anointed) 13…> Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of GOD, unto a (PERFECT) Man, unto the (MEASURE) of the (STATURE) of the (FULLNESS) of Christ or anointed or Christos.
Does anyone see any difference here between Jesus and Us , we also decent when we die, and we also ascend when we are raised up just like Jesus we are to come unto the (FULL) Measure of Christ to the same level as Jesus did. Through the same process. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
genejust explain this verse who says the opposite of what you say in your quote;;
Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.it is with the whole scriptures we work
Pierre
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 15 2010,10:22) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,10:19) Irene……….If Jesus came to (NOT) do HIS WILL then Why do You think He Did HIS so-called “FREE WILL” O, and by the way Jesus never used the word “FREE” WILL did he as you people do, That is your doing not His. Saying someone has a WILL is one thing saying it is a FREE WILL is quite another. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………………………………..gene
Gene, wrong Jesus did, I took that Scripture out of the Blue Letter Bible on the Internet…… Read it….. and Deut. also we have a free will. He had a will in order to say that He came to do not mine own will, but My Fathers will….. Irene
Irene………Well what does that prove?, this you can find anything you want to out there no matter if no other Bible in existence say it. I still maintain what i have posted and said it right, and is Scripture backed up in nearly all bibles that exist today.peace and love…………………………gene
Gene! Free to choose our will or aniother will. just because Jesus did not say free, you ignore it? Come on, you are grasping on straws….
I and Jesus, had a choice to do His Own Free WILL or not. I have a free will to obey or not to…… Feeeeeeee. IreneTerricca………Why argue with me about it i just posted 5 0r 6 scriptures word for word, Your argument is with them not me. And I could say that same about Cyrus,. Tell me did He come from Heaven or NOT, Yes He did because GOD the FATHER Predicted it and brought it about He was GODS Servant sent from Heaven also Right? O and Let not forget Jeremiah the Prophet also. Read it and see for yourself.
Terricca Separating Jesus from our EXACT Identity is the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrist
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,17:28) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 15 2010,10:22) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,10:19) Irene……….If Jesus came to (NOT) do HIS WILL then Why do You think He Did HIS so-called “FREE WILL” O, and by the way Jesus never used the word “FREE” WILL did he as you people do, That is your doing not His. Saying someone has a WILL is one thing saying it is a FREE WILL is quite another. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………………………………..gene
Gene, wrong Jesus did, I took that Scripture out of the Blue Letter Bible on the Internet…… Read it….. and Deut. also we have a free will. He had a will in order to say that He came to do not mine own will, but My Fathers will….. Irene
Irene………Well what does that prove?, this you can find anything you want to out there no matter if no other Bible in existence say it. I still maintain what i have posted and said it right, and is Scripture backed up in nearly all bibles that exist today.peace and love…………………………gene
geneonless was free himself he would not have beable to free us .
how could a slave free any one else if he themselves is slave
Christ was a free man and so choose to do God s will out of his freewill ,Satan influence was rejected and he chose to serve God ,he knew wen he was tempted that there was a choice to be made and he ad two influences the word of his God and the words of Satan,he also knew what was good for him,
so out of is own freewill and his knowledge of what is at sake he chose to serve his God,we should do the same thing.Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,17:36) Terricca………Why argue with me about it i just posted 5 0r 6 scriptures word for word, Your argument is with them not me. And I could say that same about Cyrus,. Tell me did He come from Heaven or NOT, Yes He did because GOD the FATHER Predicted it and brought it about He was GODS Servant sent from Heaven also Right? O and Let not forget Jeremiah the Prophet also. Read it and see for yourself. Terricca Separating Jesus from our EXACT Identity is the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrist
genethat is not answering ,you flying away of the answer,
so it is opinions that you preach to others.
Pierre
Irene……….Tell me this if i offered you three Pieces of Pie One was Apple, one was Cherry, one was Chocolate , Which one would you chose, Now ask your self why would I chose that piece, was it Just a “FREE WILL” a random choice or was it a result of Past associations and that produced in you a desire for the one you chose. If you say you had No Past (INFLUENCE) then YOU are LYING and there is no point of discussing this any further. There is NO SUCH Thing as a WILL the is FREE, of INFLUENCE and so a FREE WILL does NOT exist. Your like most here confusing OUR GOD GRANTED LIBERTY to Exercise our WILLS with us have a FREE WILL working (IN) US. Nothing could be further from the truth.
peace and love…………………………………..gene
Hi All,
I got busy with answering Keith in “procreate” last night…….and WOW! It's like 10 more pages here. I don't have time to read every post, so I'm going to just jump right back in at this point, okay?
Gene said:
Quote Irene……….Tell me this if i offered you three Pieces of Pie One was Apple, one was Cherry, one was Chocolate , Which one would you chose, Now ask your self why would I chose that piece, was it Just a “FREE WILL” a random choice or was it a result of Past associations and that produced in you a desire for the one you chose. If you say you had No Past (INFLUENCE) then YOU are LYING and there is no point of discussing this any further. There is NO SUCH Thing as a WILL the is FREE, of INFLUENCE and so a FREE WILL does NOT exist. I think I get what you're saying now Gene. But if I'm allergic to cherry and chocolate hurts my teeth, and because of those two “influences” I choose apple – does that mean I don't have free will?
I think that is what you are saying, and maybe it IS just our understandings of the word “free” that is causing the difference here.
Here's how I see the “pie” choice. Sure, I remember how cherries make me swell up a bit, but I still like the way they taste. So even with the “influence” of knowing I might swell up, I am still FREE to choose the cherry pie anyway…….DESPITE the “influence”.
Isn't that “FREE will”?
peace and love,
mikeGene,
Are you assuming because God manipulates us to accomplish his loving purpose for us that our choices are not freely made. Scripture teaches us that God manipulates us by testing our hearts which means we are free to choose good or evil. He has foreknowledge about what we will chose and he uses that and his power in order that our free choice does not harm his righteous plan but that does not mean we have no free choice.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,12:41) Irene……….Tell me this if i offered you three Pieces of Pie One was Apple, one was Cherry, one was Chocolate , Which one would you chose, Now ask your self why would I chose that piece, was it Just a “FREE WILL” a random choice or was it a result of Past associations and that produced in you a desire for the one you chose. If you say you had No Past (INFLUENCE) then YOU are LYING and there is no point of discussing this any further. There is NO SUCH Thing as a WILL the is FREE, of INFLUENCE and so a FREE WILL does NOT exist. Your like most here confusing OUR GOD GRANTED LIBERTY to Exercise our WILLS with us have a FREE WILL working (IN) US. Nothing could be further from the truth. peace and love…………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,What if we're skeptical of your 'influence' on our “Free Will”
to choose one of your preconceived opinionated pie choices.I will instead choose the pie of my choice by going to the store
and disregard your 'influenced will' trying to sway my “Free Will”!Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Ed J.
Could you give your opinion on two of my last three posts; one addressed to Gene and the other to all. Please ignore the one where I ask Gene his opinion on the earliest one.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,01:28) To all, What is the bibles definition of “will”?
Jesus chose to submit his will to God's will. Did that action come from his will or God's?
Hi Kerwin,Do you really think Gene “will” change his view on “Free Will”?
Hebrew #7522: רָצוֹן (ra-tsone) râtsôn: (accomplish)delight,
(choose)desire, (set)favor, (take)pleasure, voluntary will, (what)would be.Greek #2307 θέλημα (theléma) thel'-ay-mah: determination, choice, purpose,
volition, inclination:- desire pleasure will.Both!
I can predetermine for us to go to “Disney World” in Florida together,
but unless you agree to: to “Will it” so, you will NOT GO!
No matter how much I may influence you!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,07:18) To all, Using the definitions for “will” at dictionary.com I believe that Jesus is speaking of purpose. I also believe that purpose is driven by a combination of the desires of the soul and spirit influenced by physical and environmental factors such as culture, perceived abilities, obstacles to the choice, etc. Romans 7:22-23 is the basis of this conclusion.
I also believe you make the choice to submit or not to submit to the will of God based on the desires of the soul alone even though Satan will strive to get you to strive not to. Matthew 5:6 is the basis of this conclusion.
Hi Kerwin,What do you want me to comment on here?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,14:33) Gene, Are you assuming because God manipulates us to accomplish his loving purpose for us that our choices are not freely made. Scripture teaches us that God manipulates us by testing our hearts which means we are free to choose good or evil. He has foreknowledge about what we will chose and he uses that and his power in order that our free choice does not harm his righteous plan but that does not mean we have no free choice.
Hi Kerwin,Rom.8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
to them who are the called according to his purpose.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,00:35) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 15 2010,06:59) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 14 2010,23:54) edj i have no idea what you want to explain to me,of what i already know about it;but i will err it so go ahead,
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,I will explain using one simple example and parable.
Being saved from the electric chair and walking out of prison are two different things.2Peter 3:9 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but
is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Free and saved are two different things! John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.Matt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king,
which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon,
one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch
as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children,
and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and
worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then
the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave
him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants,
which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the
throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet,
and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he
would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when
his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told
unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said
unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from
your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.Matt.5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means
come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.Do you understand now?
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
edji understand ,but your conclusion is dark,could you put some light in it??
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Do you?
Do you not understand the two resurrections?The point is simple: being saved from death and set free are two different things.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj
i do ,
Mt 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
Jer 2:35 you say, ‘I am innocent;
he is not angry with me.’
But I will pass judgment on you
because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’Ro 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters
1Pe 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
yes we have to do all we can to be obedient to the scriptures the word of God,so we may be in the first resurection
Pierre
I can get on board with that.
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