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Hi brother Ed J,
If you want proof please read my first post in this thread on Myth of Free Will.
Thanks
AdamHere is another article on Myth of Free Will:
MOST PEOPLE say that they believe in “free will.” Do you have any idea what that means? I believe that you will find a great deal of superstition on this subject. The will is saluted as the grand power of the human soul which is completely free to direct our lives. But from what is it free? And what is its power?
THE MYTH OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL FREEDOM
No one denies that man has a will — that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.
Joseph’s brothers hated him. They sold him to be a slave. But God used their actions to make him a ruler over themselves. They chose their course of action to harm Joseph. But God in His power directed events for Joseph’s good. He said, “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good” (Gen 50:20).
And how many of your decisions are miserably thwarted? You may choose to be a millionaire, but God’s providence is likely to prevent it. You may decide to be a scholar, but bad health, an unstable home, or lack of finances may frustrate your will. You choose to go on a vacation, but an automobile accident may send you to the hospital instead.
By saying that your will is free, we certainly do not mean that it determines the course of your life. You did not choose the sickness, sorrow, war, and poverty that have spoiled your happiness. You did not choose to have enemies. If man’s will is so potent, why not choose to live on and on? But you must die. The major factors which shape your life cannot thank your will. You did not select your social status, color, intelligence, etc.
Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man’s heart deviseth his way: but THE LORD DIRECTETH his steps” (Prov 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps” (Jer 10:23).
Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do; but your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you. The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus’ parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “This I WILL do: I WILL pull down all my barns, and build greater: and there I WILL bestow all my fruits and my goods. . . But God said unto him. Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.
THE MYTH OF ETHICAL FREEDOM
But freedom of the will is cited as an important factor in making MORAL decisions. Man’s will is said to be free to choose between good and evil. But again we must ask, from what is it free? And what is man’s will free to choose?
The will of man is his power to choose between alternatives. Your will does decide your actions from a number of options. You have the faculty to direct your own thoughts, words, and deeds. Your decisions are not formed by an outside force, but from within yourself. No man is compelled to act contrary to his will, nor forced to say what he does not wish. Your will guides your actions.
Yet this does not mean that the power to decide is free from all influence. You make choices based on your understanding, your feelings, your likes and dislikes, and your appetites. In other words, your will is not free from yourself! Your choices are determined by your own basic character. The will is not independent of your nature, but the slave of it. Your choices do not shape your character, but your character guides your choices. The will is quite partial to what you know, feel, love, and desire. You always choose on the basis of your disposition. according to the condition of your heart.
It is just for this reason that your will is NOT free to do good. Your will is the servant of your heart, and your heart is evil. “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that EVERY imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY evil CONTINUALLY” (Gen 6:5). “There is NONE that doeth good, no, not one” (Rom 3:12). No power forces man to sin contrary to his will, but the descendants of Adam are so evil that they always choose the evil.
Your decisions are molded by your understanding, and the Bible says of all men, “And their foolish heart was darkened” (Rom 1:21). Man can only be righteous when he desires to have fellowship with God, but, “There is NONE that seeketh after God” (Rom 3:11). Your appetites crave sin, and thus you cannot choose God. To choose good is contrary to human nature. If you chose to obey God, it would be the result of external compulsion. But you are free to choose and hence your choice is enslaved to your own evil nature.
If fresh meat and tossed salad were placed before a hungry lion, he would choose the flesh This is because his nature dictates the selection. It is just so with man. The will of man is free from outside force, but not from the bias of human nature. That bias is against God. Man’s power of decision are free to choose whatever the human heart dictates; therefore there is no possibility of a man choosing to please God without prior work of divine grace.
What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil. This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to ONLY evil CONTINUALLY Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots’? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil” (Jer 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.
In spite of the great praise that is given to “free will,” we have seen that man’s will is not free to choose a course contrary to God’s purposes nor free to act contrary to his own moral nature. Your will does not determine the events of your life nor the circumstances of it. Ethical choices are not formed by a neutral mind but always dictated by your personality makeup.
THE MYTH OF SPIRITUAL FREEDOM
Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. They say that here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.
There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will. It is often called “faith.” But how do men come to willingly receive the Lord? It is usually answered, “Out of the power of their own free will.” But how can that be? Jesus is a PROPHET — to receive Him means to believe all that He says. In John 8:41-45 Jesus made it clear that you were born of Satan. This evil father hates the truth and imparted the same bias into your heart by nature. Hence said Jesus, “Because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” How does the human will jump out of man to choose to believe what the human mind hates and denies?
Further, to receive Jesus means to embrace him as a PRIEST — that is, to employ and depend on him to sue out peace with God by sacrifice and intercession. Paul tells us that the mind with which we were born is hostile to God (Rom 8:7). How can the will escape the influence of human nature which was born with a violent enmity to God? It would be insane for the will to choose pe
ace when every bone and drop of blood cries out for rebellion.Then too, receiving Jesus means to welcome Him as a KING. It means choosing to obey His every command, to confess His right of rule and to worship before His throne. But the human mind, emotions, and desires all cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:14). If my whole being hates His truth, hates His rule and hates peace with God, how can my will be responsible for receiving Jesus? How can such a sinner have faith?
It is not man’s will but God’s GRACE that must be thanked for giving a sinner a new heart. Unless God changes the heart, creates a new spirit of peace, truthfulness, and submission. man will not choose to receive Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him. A new heart must he given before a man can believe, or else the human will is hopelessly enslaved to evil human nature even in the matter of conversion. Jesus said. “Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again” (John 3:7). Unless you are, you will never see His kingdom.
Read John 1:12 & 13. It says that those who believe on Jesus have been “born, not of the will of man, but of God.” As your will is not responsible for your coming into this world, it is not responsible for the new birth. It is your Creator who must be thanked for your life, and if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation (II Cor 5:17). Who ever chose to be created? When Lazarus rose from the dead, he then could choose to answer the call of Christ, but he could not choose to come to life. So Paul said in Ephesians 2:5, “Even when we were dead in sins, [God] hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).” Faith is the first act of a will made new by the Holy Spirit. Receiving Christ is an act of man just as breathing is, but God must first give life.
No wonder Martin Luther wrote a book entitled The Bondage of the Will which he considered one of his most important treatises. The will is in the chains of an evil human nature. You who extol the free will as a great force are clinging to a root of pride. Man, as fallen in sin, is utterly helpless and hopeless. The will of man offers no hope. It was the will choosing the forbidden fruit that brought us into misery. The powerful grace of God alone offers deliverance. Cast yourself upon God’s mercy for salvation. Ask for the Spirit of Grace that He may create a new spirit within you.
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,13:30) Myth of Free Will : Most people say that they believe in “free will.” Do you have any idea what that means? I believe that you will find a great deal of superstition on this subject. The will is saluted as the grand power of the human soul which is completely free to direct our lives. But from what is it free? And what is its power?
THE MYTH OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL FREEDOM
No one denies that man has a will—that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.
Joseph's brothers hated him. They sold him to be a slave. But God used their actions to make him a ruler over themselves. They chose their course of action to harm Joseph. But God in his power directed events for Joseph's good. He said, “You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good” (Gen. 50:20).
And how many of your decisions are miserably thwarted? You may choose to be a millionaire, but God's providence is likely to prevent it. You may decide to be a scholar, but bad health, an unstable home, or lack of finances may frustrate your will. You choose to go on a vacation, but an automobile accident may send you to the hospital instead.
By saying that your will is free, we certainly do not mean that it determines the course of your life. You did not choose the sickness, sorrow, war, and poverty that have spoiled your happiness. You did not choose to have enemies. If man's will is so potent, why not choose to live on and on? But you must die. The major factors which shape your life cannot thank your will. You did not select your social status, color, intelligence, etc.
Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man's mind plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps” (Prov. 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “I know, 0 Lord, that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do. But your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you. The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus' parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “I will do this; I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods… But God said to him, Fool! This night your soul is required of you” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.
THE MYTH OF ETHICAL FREEDOM
But freedom of the will is cited as an important factor in making moral decisions. Man's will is said to be free to choose between good and evil. But again we must ask, from what is it free? And what is man's will free to choose?
The will of man is his power to choose between alternatives. Your will does decide your actions from a number of options. You have the faculty to direct your own thoughts, words, and deeds. Your decisions are not formed by an outside force but from within yourself. No man is compelled to act contrary to his will, nor forced to say what he does not wish. Your will guides your actions.
Yet this does not mean that the power to decide is free from all influence. You make choices based on your understanding, your feelings, your likes and dislikes, and your appetites. In other words, your will is not free from yourself! Your choices are determined by your own basic character. The will is not independent of your nature but the slave of it. Your choices do not shape your character, but your character guides your choices. The will is quite partial to what you know, feel, love, and desire. You always choose on the basis of your disposition, according to the condition of your heart.
It is just for this reason that your will is not free to do good. Your will is the servant of your heart, and your heart is evil. “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). “No one does good, not even one” (Rom. 3:12). No power forces man to sin contrary to his will, but the descendants of Adam are so evil that they always choose the evil.
Your decisions are molded by your understanding, and the Bible says of all men, “Their senseless minds are darkened” (Rom. 1:21). Man can only be righteous when he desires to have fellowship with God, but, “No one seeks for God” (Rom. 3:11). Your appetites crave sin, and thus you cannot choose Good. To choose good is contrary human nature. If you chose to obey God, it would be the result of external compulsion. But you are free to choose, and hence your choice is enslaved to your own evil nature.
If fresh meat and tossed salad were placed before a hungry lion, he would choose the flesh. This is because his nature dictates the selection. It is just so with man. The will of man is free from outside force but not from the bias of human nature. That bias is against God. Man's powers of decision are free to choose whatever the human heart dictates; therefore there is no possibility of a man choosing to please God without a prior work of divine grace.
What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil. This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to only evil continually. Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil” (Jer. 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature. Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.
In spite of the great praise that is given to “free will,” we have seen that man's will is not free to choose a course contrary to God's purposes nor free to act contrary to his own moral nature. Your will does not determine the events of your life nor the circumstances of it. Ethical choices are not formed by a neutral mind but always dictated by your personality.
THE MYTH OF SPIRITUAL FREEDOM
Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. Here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.
There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will. It is often called “faith.” But how do men come to willingly receive the Lord? It is usually answered, “Out of the power of their own free will.” But how can that be? Jesus is a prophet. To receive him means to believe all that he says. In John 8:41-45 Jesus made it clear that you were born of Satan. This evil father hates the truth and imparted the same bias into your heart by nature. Hence said Jesus, “Because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me.” How does the human will jump out of man to choose to believe what the human mind hates and denies?
To receive Jesus further means to embrace him as a priest—that is, to employ,and depend on him to sue out peace with God by sacrific and intercession. Paul tells us that the mind with which we were born is hostile to God (Rom. 8:7). How can the will escape the influence of human nature which wa
s born with a violent enmity to God? It would be insane for the will to choose peace when every bone and drop of blood cries out for rebellion.Then too, receiving Jesus means to welcome him as a king. It means choosing to obey his every command, to confess his right of rule, and to worship before his throne. But the human mind, emotions, and desires all cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:14). If my whole being hates his truth, hates his rule, and hates peace with God, how can my will be responsible for receiving Jesus? How can such a sinner have faith?
It is not man's will but God's grace that must be thanked for giving a sinner a new heart. Unless God changes the heart, creates a new spirit of peace, truthfulness, and submission, man will not choose to receive Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him. A new heart must be given before a man will believe, or else the human will is hopelessly enslaved to evil human nature—even in the matter of conversion. Jesus said, “Marvel not that I said to you, you must be born again” (John 3:7). Unless you are, you will never see his kingdom.
Read John 1:12 & 13. It says that those who believe on Jesus have been “born, not of the will of man, but of God.” As your will is not responsible for your coming into this world, it is not responsible for the new birth. It is your Creator who must be thanked for your life, and if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation (II Cor. 5:17). Who ever chose to be created? When Lazarus rose from the dead, he chose to answer the call of Christ, but he did not choose to come to life. So Paul said in Ephesians 2:4 & 5, “When we were dead in sins God has quickened us with Christ (by grace you are saved).” Faith is the first act of a will made new by the Holy Spirit. Receiving Christ is an act of man just as breathing is, but God must first give life.
No wonder Martin Luther wrote a book entitled The Bondage of The Will which he considered one of his most important treatises. The will is in the chains of an evil human nature. You who extol the free will as a great force are clinging to a root of pride. Man, as fallen in sin, is utterly helpless and hopeless. The will of man offers no hope. It was the will choosing the forbidden fruit that brought us into misery. The powerful grace of God alone offers deliverance. Cast yourself upon God's mercy for salvation. Ask for the Spirit of Grace that he may create a new spirit within you.
Source: http://www.eternallifeministries.org/wc_myth.htmPlease share your views
Adam
Hi Adam,Please explain how this propaganda is proof?
Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 10 2010,18:17) MOST PEOPLE say that they believe in “free will.” Do you have any idea what that means? I believe that you will find a great deal of superstition on this subject. The will is saluted as the grand power of the human soul which is completely free to direct our lives. But from what is it free? And what is its power?
We are free to choose given the options available to us.e.g., when you enter a lottery, you can choose any numbers you want. Sometimes you can let the computer generate the numbers for you or you can just choose at random some numbers, or you can choose some favorite numbers if you have them. No pressure here. Just the ability to choose freely.
So let's say that you choose 8 random numbers. Please explain how a person is not free to choose them but somehow is influenced.Now if we do not have the ability to choose, then we couldn't choose God when he asks us, could we?
“Choose you this day whom you will serve.”And it would be pointless for God to pour out his Spirit when the enemy comes in like a flood. Of course God does this so we are not overwhelmed and thus are free to choose to do his will because on one side we have the enemy influencing us and on the other, the Spirit leading us. What tips the balance one way or another? It is your ability to choose.
Jesus also said my “yoke is easy and my burden is light”. In other words we have no excuse to not do what he wants because it is obtainable and of course that means we are able to choose to follow God through our messiah. If we do not, then we are accountable only because God made it possible for us. If it was not possible, then blaming us for not doing something would be counterproductive.
Now if we were in heavenly glory and housed in a perfect body it might be hard to rebel against God given how wonderful and beautiful it is to be in his presence. But we are on Earth and we struggle against the flesh and see dimly.
So God's presence is not overwhelming us to obey him. We often do not feel the need to bow down and worship God day and night as the creatures before the throne do. No, we do it all not by sight but by faith and it is faith that pleases God. When God gives us a measure of faith it is up to us to choose what to do with that. Otherwise when we fail, we could just blame God. But God blames us, not himself when we are disobedient.
It makes me laugh how some say that we cannot choose freely.
I should add.
When God said to man to not eat of that certain tree, please explain why man ate from that tree.
Is the Devil stronger than God that his influence was stronger than God's influence.
How do you explain it?Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 10 2010,20:07) It is self explanatory….
Hi Adam,I don't read any ‘imported’ religious based propaganda.
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Would you be so kind as to use your “Free Will” to reword the parts you believe.
Then I will use my “Free Will” to not only read it, but then we will have something to discuss; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Sep. 11 2010,03:07) It is self explanatory….
gollRo 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Ro 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Ro 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Ro 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?Pierre
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2010,20:56) Now if we do not have the ability to choose, then we couldn't choose God when he asks us, could we?
“Choose you this day whom you will serve.”
Hi T8,They may have to much ‘worldly influence’
on them to make the correct “Free Will” choice!
Josh.24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve [יהוה],
choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the
gods which your fathers served that were on the other side
of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:
but as for me and my house, we [“Will Freely”] serve the LORD.
Plus: Isn't it rather ironic that they would waste their “Free Will”
time trying to convince us there is (FALSELY) no such thing?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)EDJ……..They chose to serve Man not God. Only those who had a Different Spirit on them chose God. Jesus plainly said “NO MAN(CAN) COME UNTO ME UNLESS GOD DRAW HIM” Well so much for a WILL that Is FREE of (INFLUENCE) Right and to lie and say you sepak from a Free will is false , You speak fro an (INFLUENCED) WILL hardly FREE at all. You follow your (CAPTIVATED) will and do what ever it tells you to. Your are far from FREE, Why do you think Jesus came to set the (captives ) FREE. Free from What ?, their captivated wills that is what. What does this mean to you, “YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE” FREE From WHAT. You false thinking that controls your will. There exist not such thing as a WILL the Is FREE, that is an OXYMORON. A will is not a WILL if it is FREE ,not Mans or GOD Will is FREE, Just as it says “GOD DOES ALL THING AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL. notice it say after the council of his will now ask yourself what given him that counsel is it not the seven spirits he has what are his eyes (giving him his intellects) He then forms His Will based on these ,these counsel Him creating his will.
His Will as well as OUR are Counseled WILL, not “FREE” at all. EVERY EFFECT HAS A (CAUSE) A MAN WILL IS THE EFFECT OF WHAT IS CAUSING HIS DESIRES AND HE THEN WILLS IT.
EDJ……………If you say your have nothing (INFLUENCING) you and causing you to will, that is simply a false statement. While you may be free to exercise that will, that is a totally different question but you are exercising an Influence will not a (will that is FREE of INFLUENCE) and therefore you have no “FREE WILL” (IN) YOU at all. In fact your are totally (captivated) by your will, Jesus understood this that is why He said The son of Man came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the Will of Him who sent Him. And again “It is written in the volumes of the books I come to do they will of GOD”. and again “Never the less Father not my Will but thy Will be done”, and again “Thy kingdom come (THY) WILL Be done”.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
The Article Adam Posted is appositely right IMO.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 11 2010,19:15) EDJ……..They chose to serve Man not God. Only those who had a Different Spirit on them chose God. Jesus plainly said “NO MAN(CAN) COME UNTO ME UNLESS GOD DRAW HIM” Well so much for a WILL that Is FREE of (INFLUENCE) Right and to lie and say you sepak from a Free will is false , You speak fro an (INFLUENCED) WILL hardly FREE at all. You follow your (CAPTIVATED) will and do what ever it tells you to. Your are far from FREE, Why do you think Jesus came to set the (captives ) FREE. Free from What ?, their captivated wills that is what. What does this mean to you, “YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE” FREE From WHAT. You false thinking that controls your will. There exist not such thing as a WILL the Is FREE, that is an OXYMORON. A will is not a WILL if it is FREE ,not Mans or GOD Will is FREE, Just as it says “GOD DOES ALL THING AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL. notice it say after the council of his will now ask yourself what given him that counsel is it not the seven spirits he has what are his eyes (giving him his intellects) He then forms His Will based on these ,these counsel Him creating his will. His Will as well as OUR are Counseled WILL, not “FREE” at all. EVERY EFFECT HAS A (CAUSE) A MAN WILL IS THE EFFECT OF WHAT IS CAUSING HIS DESIRES AND HE THEN WILLS IT.
EDJ……………If you say your have nothing (INFLUENCING) you and causing you to will, that is simply a false statement. While you may be free to exercise that will, that is a totally different question but you are exercising an Influence will not a (will that is FREE of INFLUENCE) and therefore you have no “FREE WILL” (IN) YOU at all. In fact your are totally (captivated) by your will, Jesus understood this that is why He said The son of Man came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the Will of Him who sent Him. And again “It is written in the volumes of the books I come to do they will of GOD”. and again “Never the less Father not my Will but thy Will be done”, and again “Thy kingdom come (THY) WILL Be done”.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
The Article Adam Posted is appositely right IMO.
geneI am in total agreement with you in this;EVERY EFFECT HAS A (CAUSE)yes the day you eat of the three of knowledge of good and evil YOU SHALL SURELY DIE;
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 11 2010,12:15) EDJ…….. Why do you think Jesus came to set the (captives ) FREE. Free from What ?
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
The Article Adam Posted is appositely right IMO.
Hi Gene,Certainly NOT from our will?
You had better go back to the drawing board (of Scripture); Gene.
Why influence us to believe our “Free Will” (according to Gene) is sin?Rom.6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to
God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.Rom.8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free from the law of sin and death.Your “Free Will” is held ‘captive’ by religious propaganda.
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.
Influence of ‘religious propaganda’ is deleterious to “Free Will”,
it has such a ‘captive’ hold on you, that you are possessed by it.
Using your Free Will to convince us it doesn't exist is an oxymoron.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)EDJ…………Yes (NOW) being (MADE) FREE from OUR Captivated WILL We are Led into Captivity BY the WILL OF GOD this is GOD'S WILL and is (NOT) OUR Will. Because we have Put (OUR) WILL to DEATH by the power of GOD'S Spirit, Paul plainly said the Carnal MIND is an enemy to GOD (NOT) Subject to GOD neither indeed (CAN BE)> So two Wills exist Neither are FREE WILLS no Mans Will or GOD'S WILL. One must DIE while the other Lives Jesus was our example of How to put OUR (Captivated) WILLS To DEATH and Through the Spirit of GOD in Us WE recieve the WILL of GOD into Us BY the SAME SPIRIT that was (IN) Jesus and (THAT SPIRIT (INTELLECT) begins to control our Lives (CAUSING US) to DO the WILL of GOD. But neither Wills are a “FREE WILLS” But (INFLUENCED WILLS. Therefore it say “He led captivities captive”. Those who were held captive by their Will , He led Captive by another WILL the Will of GOD. Just as it says, ” FOR HE (WORKS) IN US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE. This is the CAUSE and EFFECT of GOD”S SPIRIT (WORKING) (IN) US. No where is there a word that say we have a “FREE” Will at work (IN) us. A “FREE WILL” Could Not even do anything because It simply would not be a WILL At ALL. Common Sense should tell you that much. The very Word WILL it self implies (CAUSE and EFFECT) . So the question is what is causing you to WILL is the problem, But to say your will is uncaused or uninfluenced is simply a lie, anyone should know that. IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 11 2010,12:15) EDJ……..Only those who had a Different Spirit on them chose God.
Hi Gene,And none will regret that “Free Will” choice either!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………It was the SPIRIT (IN) them that Gave them the Cause to CHOSES GOD'S Way Just as it is today, FOR HE (GOD) WORKS IN US (BOTH) TO WILL AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. WHERE DO YOU SEE GOD'S “FREE” WILL AT THERE. The concept of a WILL being “FREE” is the very root of sin it self it was the very cause of Adams and Eves Falling in the first place they want to be “FREE” To Chose there Own destiny , just as all so-called “FREE” WILLER'S do. THERE IS ONLY ONE WILL THAT WILL BE DONE AND IT IS DEFINITELY NOT YOURS OR MINE. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2010,10:08) EDJ………It was the SPIRIT (IN) them…IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi Gene,How was it that they got the Spirit in them? (Joshua 24:15)
How can you have an opinion either?, without “a Will”?,
and how can you make it (if), it's NOT “Free” to choose?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)EDJ……….I can have an opinion just like everyone else can , By thinking , and this thinking (forms my and your WILL) Just as GOD thinking Forms His WILL also. No one is arguing that we don't have WILLS we all HAVE Have them, The question is are they “FREE” WILLS that is to say they are FREE of (ANY) Influences, That (CAUSE) us to WILL what we want. No one ever said we don't have (Liberty) to express or exercise our influenced WILLS . EDJ , you need to try more not to Lie about what people are saying or IMPLYING it would help you ministry more. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2010,02:40) EDJ……….I can have an opinion just like everyone else can , By thinking , and this thinking (forms my and your WILL) Just as GOD thinking Forms His WILL also. No one is arguing that we don't have WILLS we all HAVE Have them, The question is are they “FREE” WILLS that is to say they are FREE of (ANY) Influences, That (CAUSE) us to WILL what we want. No one ever said we don't have (Liberty) to express or exercise our influenced WILLS . EDJ , you need to try more not to Lie about what people are saying or IMPLYING it would help you ministry more. IMO peace and love……………………..gene
Hi Gene,Now that you admit we all have wills…
What makes you think influence on them makes them (according to Gene) not free anymore?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2010,09:40) EDJ……….I can have an opinion just like everyone else can , By thinking , and this thinking (forms my and your WILL) Just as GOD thinking Forms His WILL also. No one is arguing that we don't have WILLS we all HAVE Have them, The question is are they “FREE” WILLS that is to say they are FREE of (ANY) Influences, That (CAUSE) us to WILL what we want. No one ever said we don't have (Liberty) to express or exercise our influenced WILLS . EDJ , you need to try more not to Lie about what people are saying or IMPLYING it would help you ministry more. IMO peace and love……………………..gene
genefree does not mean we can do what ever,like jumping off a building,stay underwater for hours,put our hand in the crocodile mouth,;in this sense no one is free.
but this is not the will we talking about;we talking of the will of our nature what is human; like what we eat,drink,sleep,work,going places,have kids,get married,steal,kill,love,share,become a ,carpenter,soldier,plumber,movie star,dentist,ect
or research god or not,or become buddhist monk,or catholic monk,or just a priest,or what ever we see fit for us to do
THIS IS THE FREEWILL WE TALKING ABOUT.
AND IN THIS CHOICES WE ALSO HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES.
Pierre
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