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Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,07:25) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 02 2010,06:15) When God chooses, He gives the individual what is needed to draw that individual to Him. We are talking about the Designer being able to form His own creation into His desires. Let's not forget who we are, we are made of the dust, we are made of the same elements as dirt! The same way God can make a clump of dirt into whatever shape He wants, He can do the same with us!! I am not talking about force here, I am talking about influence. Obviously there is more that goes into shaping a human then a lump of clay, since you are dealing with a creature that has an imagination. Man cannot deny the influence of YHWH like he cannot deny the influence of hunger!! The problem is that most Christians have an extremely insulting view of God's influences…. a false preacher and a mistranslated bible is God's calling and if YOU don't FIND Christ before you die you're goin to hell!! Truly despicable!! YHVH has not truly begun to influence man!! YHVH WILL lead every man into repentance, just as every animal is led by his thirst to the watering hole!!
Hi Jodi,So does all this stuff mean: now that I influenced you to respond to my Posts you no longer have a “Free Will”?
Now that your will is influenced by mine, 'your' will is no longer 'free' of my influence.
I still have my “Free Will” (given by YHVH) no matter what you say!Do any of these verses go against what you have said in the least bit?
Lev.22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them,
Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation
for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;Lev.22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow,
or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.Lev.22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts,
that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.Lev.23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows,
and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.Numbers 15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow,
or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savor unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:Numbers 29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows,
and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings,
and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.Deut.12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings
of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:Deut.12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine,
or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest,
nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:Deut.16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of
a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God,
according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:Deut.23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering,
according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.2Chron.31:14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east,
was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.Ezra 1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver,
and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.Ezra 3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the
set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.Ezra 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites,
in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.Ezra 7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering
of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:Ezra 8:28 And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also;
and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.Psalm 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Ed J
NO they ABSOLUTELY DO NOT!! Freewill in the text is speaking of VOLUNTARY offerings! Obviously you are not grasping what I am saying.Can you answer the following?
Where do people extract their choices? Are choices not made out of prior influences and experiences?
Choices are DEPENDENT upon factors, many of which the individual has no control over. So how does that make a persons choice free?
Would you say that a person's choice of what they are going to eat for dinner is completely and utterly free, or is it dependent upon several different factors?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 02 2010,08:30) Can you answer the following? 1) Where do people extract their choices?
2) Are choices not made out of prior influences and experiences?
3) Choices are DEPENDENT upon factors, many of which the individual has no control over.
3) A) So how does that make a persons choice free?4) Would you say that a person's choice of what they are going to eat for dinner is completely and utterly free, or is it dependent upon several different factors?
Hi Jodi,OK; if you seek agreement!
1) Many places.
2) Sometimes.
3) Name some?
3) A) Explain what you mean?4) A person can hardly choose some kind of food they never heard of before, even though it may be available to them.
So they would not be “Free” to make a choice that they were unaware of.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………A persons mind is not (FREE) it is (INFLUENCED) BY PAST ASSOCIATIONS, your confusing God allowing us LIBERTY o exercise our WILLS, as our WILL being “FREE” nothing could be further from the truth, “FREE WILL” is an OXYMORON, a Will would not be a WILL if it WERE “FREE” rather GOD'S Will or OUR Wills. Neither are “FREE WILLS” . For every effect there is a CAUSE, to say our Will are FREE is to Say there is not CAUSE at work in a person. Jodi is Right in What she is saying < IMO.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 04 2010,15:58) EDJ………A persons mind is not (FREE) it is (INFLUENCED) BY PAST ASSOCIATIONS, your confusing God allowing us LIBERTY o exercise our WILLS, as our WILL being “FREE” nothing could be further from the truth, “FREE WILL” is an OXYMORON, a Will would not be a WILL if it WERE “FREE” rather GOD'S Will or OUR Wills. Neither are “FREE WILLS” . For every effect there is a CAUSE, to say our Will are FREE is to Say there is not CAUSE at work in a person. Jodi is Right in What she is saying < IMO. peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Hi Gene,So you don't love God out of your “Free Will” to do so,
for you there is only influence? How can that be love?Programing is something we to to robots.
Are you like a robot; Gene? (Psalm 32:9)How can your opinion be trusted,
when it is not free but under some influence?
Could you calling me confused, be you seeing your own reflection? (Psalm 18:25-27)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J…….! John 4:10 …> Herein is Love, (not) that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11…> if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12….> No man has God at any time, If we love one another, God dwells (IN) Us. (HIS) Love is perfected (IN) us.
Where doe OUR So-called “FREE WILLS” come into play Here. think about it ED J.
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 05 2010,15:18) ED J…….! John 4:10 …> Herein is Love, (not) that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11…> if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12….> No man has God at any time, If we love one another, God dwells (IN) Us. (HIS) Love is perfected (IN) us. Where doe OUR So-called “FREE WILLS” come into play Here. think about it ED J.
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
geneyou just say God love us…..his free will ..
then you say ;we ought also to love one another…
WE OUGHT TO ;IS THIS NOT A OPEN WAY TO CHOICE EITHER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,AND SO WE ARE USEZING OUR FREEWILL OR WILLINGNESS OF CHOICE.
RIGHT?Pierre
I freely chose to make this post.
Did you choose to post or are you posting according to a divine script that was written eons ago. If so, are you just a program?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 05 2010,15:18) ED J…….! John 4:10 …> Herein is Love, (not) that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11…> if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12….> No man has God at any time, If we love one another, God dwells (IN) Us. (HIS) Love is perfected (IN) us. Where doe OUR So-called “FREE WILLS” come into play Here. think about it ED J.
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Hi Gene,A hateful enemy 'influences' you to be hateful back them back. (Matt. 5:44)
But because of our “Free Will” we can instead choose to show “Love” back to them,
despite 'influences' we still have “Free Will”! When will you (and Jodi Lee) realize this “Bible Truth”! ((Psalm 32:9))Psalm 32:9 Be ye (Jodi Lee and Gene Balthrop) not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding:
whose mouth must be (influenced to be) held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 05 2010,15:18) ED J…….! John 4:10 …> Herein is Love, (not) that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11…> if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12….> No man has God at any time, If we love one another, God dwells (IN) Us. (HIS) Love is perfected (IN) us. Where doe OUR So-called “FREE WILLS” come into play Here. think about it ED J.
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hi Gene,A hateful enemy 'influences' you to be hateful back to them. (Matt. 5:44)
But because of our “Free Will” we can instead choose to show “Love” back to them,
despite 'influences' we still have “Free Will”! When will you (and Jodi Lee) realize this “Bible Truth”! ((Psalm 32:9))Psalm 32:9 Be ye (Jodi Lee and Gene Balthrop) not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding:
whose mouth must be (influenced to be) held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J………I have alway noticed that those to say those things are themselves plagued with that affection . YOU or anyone else have Yet to produce (ONE) Scripture that states Man has a “FREE” WILL (IN) Him. This would be a good start point for you, before you push your teachings on others. I will stand with Jodi Lee, Adam, Chosenone and some others also. You can stand on the false teaching of Mystery religions fostered by the fallen apostate churches. IMO
peace and love……………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 06 2010,15:38) Ed J………I have alway noticed that those to say those things are themselves plagued with that affection . YOU or anyone else have Yet to produce (ONE) Scripture that states Man has a “FREE” WILL (IN) Him. This would be a good start point for you, before you push your teachings on others. I will stand with Jodi Lee, Adam, Chosenone and some others also. You can stand on the false teaching of Mystery religions fostered by the fallen apostate churches. IMO peace and love……………..gene
Hi Gene,I have shown you many verses that says we have a “Free Will”, but you continually turn your back to them?
You have failed to produce one single scripture that says we don't have a “Free Will”! (Psalm 32:9)So you can go with Adam, Jodi Lee, Chosenone and others if you like,
but I will(out of my Free Will of course) stick to “Bible Truth”=117 about “GOD The Father”=117!“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 06 2010,15:38) Ed J………I have alway noticed that those to say those things are themselves plagued with that affection . YOU or anyone else have Yet to produce (ONE) Scripture that states Man has a “FREE” WILL (IN) Him. This would be a good start point for you, before you push your teachings on others. I will stand with Jodi Lee, Adam, Chosenone and some others also. You can stand on the false teaching of Mystery religions fostered by the fallen apostate churches. IMO peace and love……………..gene
geneshow me two full verses that say that God will save us all under any condition,or that he will force us to accept what he wants and so be saved.
if you use the word predetermined or determine you have to show us all what is determined or pre;so we can see how God will do it.
Pierre
this request is made i chose to respond to you out of that freewill of mine.
Terriracca………You chose to respond to me not out of a “FREE” but a Drive WILL to prove yourself right. It had nothing to do with a “FREE” WILL but a captivated Will working (IN) YOU. So you do not believe that predestination exists i don't even know where to begin if by now you have not read all the Many and many Quotes the not only myself but other have given you> But for starters what about Cyrus , was He predestine? , and what about Jesus also. or how about Jeremiah, Here one How about John the Baptist , Show (ONE) Scripture that Shows these Men all Chose by their Own so-called “FREE” Will to serve GOD. O I see you Can't , just like your can't produce (ONE) Scripture that say Man (HAS a “FREE” WILL (IN) HIM). Changing subject and playing switch backs only confuse yourself and other more. You and JK are beginning to make a pair hopping all around and proving or disproving nothing. IMO
Peace and love………………gene
We are free to make choices everyday. Here are two quick examples that come to mind. It is not hard to see how many choices we have which give us the ability to choose. e.g.,
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.So if we choose to confess our sins, God will forgive us.
Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.The choice here is to live by the flesh or the spirit. It is our choice and we can't blame anyone else for our choice. No excuses.
Quote (t8 @ June 06 2010,19:30) We are free to make choices everyday. Here are two quick examples that come to mind. It is not hard to see how many choices we have which give us the ability to choose. e.g., 1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.So if we choose to confess our sins, God will forgive us.
Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.The choice here is to live by the flesh or the spirit. It is our choice and we can't blame anyone else for our choice. No excuses.
T8…….Good let look at what your have said. (IF) we confess our sins, Now consider why you even would (confess) your sins. Is it because You Just out of the (BLUE) decided to confess them, or was it because Something (IN) you (Influencing) you to do that. Remember if we are going to trout the word “FREE” WILL (nothing can be (influencing) it or it simply would not be “FREE”, now would it.We are (CAUSED) to do what we do, by our (captivated) Wills hardly “FREE” at all. People get (LIBERTY) to exercise their (captivated Wills) mixed up whit then Possessing a “FREE” WILL.
T8, i maintain the term “FREE” WILL being (IN) a person is nowhere (IN) Scripture, if So Produce it.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 07 2010,02:17) Remember if we are going to trout the word “FREE” WILL (nothing can be (influencing) it or it simply would not be “FREE”, now would it. peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Hi Gene,Having influence does in no way diminish a persons “Free Will”!
Please show us in the bible where you get this from?
Where do you get this Gene based idea from?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J……Having an (INFLUENCED) Will does not indeed diminishes a persons Will, Because that will is not a “FREE” of INFLUENCE WILL as a True “FREE” Will would be. You getting GOD allowing us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED) WILLS as Us Having (A) Free will in us . Ther term “FREE WILL” Is an OXYMORON none exist not even the WILL of GOD is a FREE WILL. “FOR GOD DOES AL THING AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL.
The better question would be Please show us where Scripture say Man (HAS) a “FREE WILL” (IN) HIM. LETS START THEIR FIRST. A will is the product of ones desires and ones desires are the products of what is (IN) a Person. All is a CAUSE and EFFECT process. Nothing FREE About IT.
Why do you think it say Jesus came to set the Captives FREE , Free from What? Is it not their mental captivity he is referencing here. The whole concept of “FREE” WILLS is only a way to separate ourselves from GOD as and makes the man as the God of his own destiny, empowering Himself by maintaining His “FREE” Status. Free Will is nothing but a false ego buster and nothing more it is exactly what Adam and Eve wanted , to be separate from GOD'S Will . True Freedom come by GOD putting Our (captivated) Wills to death by HIS spirit>
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 07 2010,14:52) ED J……Having an (INFLUENCED) Will does not indeed diminishes a persons Will, Because that will is not a “FREE” of INFLUENCE WILL as a True “FREE” Will would be. You getting GOD allowing us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED) WILLS as Us Having (A) Free will in us . Ther term “FREE WILL” Is an OXYMORON none exist not even the WILL of GOD is a FREE WILL. “FOR GOD DOES AL THING AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL. The better question would be Please show us where Scripture say Man (HAS) a “FREE WILL” (IN) HIM. LETS START THEIR FIRST. A will is the product of ones desires and ones desires are the products of what is (IN) a Person. All is a CAUSE and EFFECT process. Nothing FREE About IT.
Why do you think it say Jesus came to set the Captives FREE , Free from What? Is it not their mental captivity he is referencing here. The whole concept of “FREE” WILLS is only a way to separate ourselves from GOD as and makes the man as the God of his own destiny, empowering Himself by maintaining His “FREE” Status. Free Will is nothing but a false ego buster and nothing more it is exactly what Adam and Eve wanted , to be separate from GOD'S Will . True Freedom come by GOD putting Our (captivated) Wills to death by HIS spirit>
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
gene,again no scriptures just opinions ,logic of men , no unwilling slaves wanted; only willingly slaves wanted for Gods vineyard
Pierre
Terraricca……..Again you speak what you do not understand IMO, You say (willing) of (unwilling) where is the word “FREE” “WILLING” at. A Will rather Willing or Unwilling is not a “FREE” Will is it? Just Produce (ONE) Scripture that say Man Has a “FREE” WILL (IN) HIM. I have yet to see you or anyone else produce that scripture even though you trout that false teaching around. IMO
peace and love…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 07 2010,14:52) ED J……Having an (INFLUENCED) Will does not indeed diminishes a persons Will, Because that will is not a “FREE” of INFLUENCE WILL as a True “FREE” Will would be. You getting GOD allowing us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED) WILLS as Us Having (A) Free will in us . Ther term “FREE WILL” Is an OXYMORON none exist not even the WILL of GOD is a FREE WILL. “FOR GOD DOES AL THING AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL. The better question would be Please show us where Scripture say Man (HAS) a “FREE WILL” (IN) HIM. LETS START THEIR FIRST. A will is the product of ones desires and ones desires are the products of what is (IN) a Person. All is a CAUSE and EFFECT process. Nothing FREE About IT.
Why do you think it say Jesus came to set the Captives FREE , Free from What? Is it not their mental captivity he is referencing here. The whole concept of “FREE” WILLS is only a way to separate ourselves from GOD as and makes the man as the God of his own destiny, empowering Himself by maintaining His “FREE” Status. Free Will is nothing but a false ego buster and nothing more it is exactly what Adam and Eve wanted , to be separate from GOD'S Will . True Freedom come by GOD putting Our (captivated) Wills to death by HIS spirit>
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Hi Gene,Who influenced your will to Post this?
Who is your will captive by?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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